“Nazis on the Potomac” – with former National Park Service Chief Historian Bob Sutton
SpyCast8 Marras 2022

“Nazis on the Potomac” – with former National Park Service Chief Historian Bob Sutton

Summary Bob Sutton (LinkedIn; Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the mysterious intelligence site P.O. Box 1142. High-value Nazis were interrogated here during WWII. What You’ll Learn Intelligence The interrogation of top Nazis for intelligence The analysis of literally tons of captured German documents Refining ways to escape and evade Nazis in German occupied Europe The importance of intelligence on the German Army’s Order of Battle Reflections The National Park Service & History Politicizing Interpretation And much, much more… Episode Notes This week’s guest is the former Chief Historian of the National Park Service, Bob Sutton, and what a wonderful conversation we had. His book, Nazis on the Potomac: The Top-Secret Intelligence Operation that Helped Win WWII, tells the story of military intelligence facility P.O. Box 1142 – present day Fort Hunt, around 15 miles south of Washington DC.It was here, between 1942-1945, that around three and a half thousand high level German prisoners were interrogated, captured documents analyzed, and ways to help Americans escape and evade Nazis in occupied Europe studied. This story is particularly incredible, because many of the interrogators were German born Jews. This story was almost lost to history, but thankfully because of the NPS and Bob Sutton, it never will be. [Conflict of interest disclosure, Andrew has an “America the Beautiful” Annual Pass]. And… John W. Kluge arrived in the United States from Germany not speaking a word of English in 1922. He was 8 years old. He would go on to be the head of the Military Intelligence Research Section (MIRS) at P.O. Box 1142. After the war, he would go on to become the richest man in the United States. He was so appreciative of America, that he provided funds to Columbia University and The Library Congress to provide opportunities to future students and scholars. Andrew is a former John W. Kluge Fellow at the Library of Congress and therefore a direct recipient of his philanthropy for which he is grateful. Quote of the Week "Doing what we did at Fort Hunt is actually fairly unusual, where we didn't know the story. We were able to locate people, we were able to get money, we could actually interview everybody that we found…That's relatively unusual." – Bob Sutton Resources SURFACE SKIM *Andrew’s Recommendation* Oral History Interview with John W. Kluge, NPS Some fascinating budgets on how his time in intelligence informed his business practices *Featured Resource* Nazis on the Potomac: The Top-Secret Intelligence Operation that Helped Win WWII, B. Sutton (Casemate, 2022) *Beginner Resources* POWs and Intel at Fort Hunt in WWII, NPS (n.d.) [web article] P.O. Box 1142, Top Secret Heroes, YouTube [3 min video] History Series (GS-0170) Federal Jobs, [career article] DEEPER DIVE *SpyCasts* “The Beverley Hills Spy” – with Seth Abramovich (2022) Books Richie Boy Secrets, B. Eddy (Stackpole, 2021) Escape and Evasion, P. Froom (Schiffer, 2015) The History of Camp Tracy, A. Corbin (Zeidon, 2009) Articles P.O. Box 1142, The Mysterious WWII Installation, SOF (2022) MIS-X: Escape and Evasion in WWII, N. Nix, Patch (2011) Moving Image Fort Hunt Up to WWII, R. Sutton, C-SPAN (2022) Richie Boys, 60 Minutes (2022) The New Americans: The Immigrants who Served, U.S. Holocaust Museum (2020) Primary Sources “Red Book”: Order of Battle of the German Army (1945) Oral Sources Oral History Interview with Rudolph Pins (2006) Oral History Interview with Silvio Bedini (2007) Oral History Interview with Paul Fairbrook (2008) Oral History Collections Fort Hunt Oral History Project, P.O. Box 1142 *Wildcard Resource* H. Res. 753 A Resolution on P.O. Box 1142 from the 110th Congress “Whereas” is utilized to great effect to tell the story with great aplomb! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Russia's Fake Identity Assembly Line in Brazil

Russia's Fake Identity Assembly Line in Brazil

When a Russian spy was arrested in Brazil in 2022, authorities were shocked to discover that he seemed to have a real birth certificate and authentic citizenship documents. The incident sparked a multi-year investigation that uncovered a network of Russian operatives living and working in Brazil – Their false identities supported by genuine documents. New York Times journalist Jane Bradley, who investigated the spy network, joined us to discuss the case as Brazilian law enforcement continues to piece together answers today.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: Ghost Stories: The Hunt for Russian Spies in the US | SpyCast "The Minions": Putin's Expendable Spies | SpyCast Curator's Corner: Kevin P. Riehle on Russian Intelligence Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

1 Heinä 31min

Breaking the Silence: Coming Out in the CIA

Breaking the Silence: Coming Out in the CIA

Emerging alongside Joseph McCarthy’s Red Scare in the 1950s was the Lavender Scare: Widespread panic and paranoia over the inclusion of gay personnel in the federal government. Their perceived dangers led to the terminations and forced resignations of thousands. Fast forward to 1988 – Tracey Ballard, who worked at the CIA, headed in to take a polygraph exam. Not sure what would happen next, she did something no one else ever had – She told her polygrapher, ‘I’m a lesbian.’ Trace became the first openly gay CIA employee, and spent the next decade of her career fighting for inclusion, acceptance, and kindness within the agency. Her story highlights the critical importance of diversity, and the beauty in recognizing the things that make us different as well as the shared values that bring us all together. From all of us at the International Spy Museum, we are proud to celebrate the LGBTQ+ community this Pride month and beyond.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: Hack to the Future with Emily Crose Agents of Change: African American Professionals in the Intelligence Community Reflect The Sisterhood with Liza Mundy Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

24 Kesä 32min

A Conversation with House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence Chairman

A Conversation with House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence Chairman

What should the US Intelligence Community prioritize domestically and overseas, and how should the work be done? We sat down with Congressman Rick Crawford, Chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, to learn his perspective on these questions. The conversation emphasized the growing threat of China’s influence in the West, the impact of the new Open Source Intelligence Subcommittee, and the importance of analytic integrity in intelligence.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Special Guest: Beth Sanner Dir. of National Intelligence Roundtable: 2025 Society for Intelligence History Panel An Evening with H.R. McMaster Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

17 Kesä 32min

Ghost Stories: The Hunt for Russian Spies in the US

Ghost Stories: The Hunt for Russian Spies in the US

In the early 2000s, the FBI uncovered a team of Russian operatives who had been living double lives in the United States. They were posing as professors, journalists, financial planners, real estate and travel agents, all while sending information back to Moscow. Now, 15 years after they were arrested, Alan Kohler, the former Assistant Director of the FBI's Counterintelligence Division, tells us what it was like to supervise the case which came to be known as Operation Ghost Stories.  In this episode, Alan mentions a number of different photos and videos from the Ghost Stories investigation. You can view them all here through the FBI’s digital vault.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: "The Minions": Putin's Expendable Spies Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Guest: Alan E. Kohler, Jr. Curator's Corner: Kevin P. Riehle on Russian Intelligence Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

10 Kesä 31min

The Secret Navy and Their Hunt for a Nazi Sub

The Secret Navy and Their Hunt for a Nazi Sub

How do you catch an enemy’s submarine … and then make it vanish? That’s what the U.S. Navy’s elusive Tenth Fleet planned, as it tracked down Germany’s U-505 submarine. The mission came right before the Allies ran ashore on the beaches of Normandy in World War II. Historian Alexander Rose draws on long classified documents and intercepted transmissions to reveal the bold, salt-soaked heist. Alex's new book, Phantom Fleet: The Hunt for Nazi Submarine U-505 and World War II’s Most Daring Heist  is available now. If you liked this episode, check out these links: Agent Zo: The Extraordinary Woman Who Parachuted Into Nazi-Occupied Poland Enigma Traitors with Dermot Turing The Heavy Water Sabotage Raid Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

3 Kesä 33min

How Are Shifting Priorities Impacting National Security in America?

How Are Shifting Priorities Impacting National Security in America?

Most Americans would agree that the United States should be protected, but from whom … and how? Dr. Donell Harvin, the former Chief of Homeland Security and Intelligence for the District of Columbia, says the U.S. is taking its eye off the ball - focusing its large domestic intelligence apparatus in a direction that is politically expedient, but not in line with the most serious threats. If you liked this episode, check out these links: ​​ DOGE Layoffs and the Counterintelligence Threats They Pose | SpyCast Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Special Guest: Colin Clarke Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

27 Touko 27min

Sharing Intelligence: Challenges between US and Ukraine

Sharing Intelligence: Challenges between US and Ukraine

After Russia’s full scale invasion of Ukraine, the U.S. rushed to create a secret center that set targets for the Ukrainians to destroy. But the counteroffensive of 2023 failed to achieve its goals. So, what went wrong? New York Times reporter Adam Entous spent more than a year reporting on this story. He joins SpyCast host Sasha Ingber to talk about what was going on behind the scenes, and the consequences that were felt acutely on the battlefield. Read Adam’s full report here.  The International Spy Museum has launched its first ever digital exhibition: Open Source: Ukraine & The Intelligence Revolution. Give it a visit to learn more about the role of publicly accessible information in intelligence collection and analysis.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: SpyCast Live: Escalation: Tracking the US-Ukraine Relationship An Evening with General David H. Petraeus SpyCast - “Zelensky, Ukraine & Intelligence” – with Simon Shuster Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

20 Touko 31min

Stories From the President's Daily Brief

Stories From the President's Daily Brief

Conflict has been escalating between two nuclear powers–India and Pakistan. It started in April, after India blamed Pakistan for supporting militants who carried out a massacre in Kashmir. President Trump offered to help defuse the tensions.Throughout history, India and Pakistan’s hostility has been documented in the President's Daily Brief, a highly classified rundown of threats facing the United States. Former CIA officer David Priess, author of The President's Book of Secrets, tells us how the PDB mattered in relations between India and Pakistan. To learn more, check out David’s book, the President's Book of Secrets, the Untold Story of Intelligence briefings to America's Presidents. If you liked this episode, check out these links: Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Special Guest: Beth Sanner The President's Book of Secrets - Understanding the President’s Daily Brief (PDB) with David Priess Hot Topics: Intelligence Challenges in an Election Year Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

13 Touko 23min

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