Joe Amodei's 5 Film Business Tips for Documentary Filmmakers

What would a film distributor with 40 years in the business tell you before you make your first documentary?

Joe Amodei has watched the movie business change from the inside: from video stores renting tapes that cost them about $60 apiece, to LaserDisc, DVD and Blu-ray, to streaming, originals and transactional rentals. When Netflix first called his company for 100 movies to stream, he sold them the movies and told them they were out of their minds. In this episode he brings that history into five things every filmmaker should know about the film business, at a moment in 2023 when, as he puts it, the question is what has happened in the last five minutes.

In Episode 194, Jason Rugg hosts with Christian Taylor, and Joe returns to the show after traveling the world to buy and sell films. He tells the legend of the meeting where Blockbuster treated the people from Netflix like kids in the room, and how Netflix walked out determined to take Blockbuster down. Christian remembers what owning movies meant: a night around 1993, after their first drink at the Tombs, when the man who became her husband showed up with a gym bag full of VHS tapes, and they watched The Hunt for Red October. Then the hard part. In the weeks before they recorded, Joe says, Disney was laying off 7,000 people, and Netflix had let go of two key people who built its streaming business. When nobody knows what's happening, everyone is afraid to spend money on independent films.

That's why the five points matter. First, know the business you're getting into: making your film is "half the miracle," Joe says, and getting it seen is the other half. Read the trades every day. Second, watch movies of every kind and every age, and learn from the masters, who went through the same aggravation you will. Third, learn film marketing in a world without newspaper reviews. Joe explains why a $20,000 publicist rarely pays off for a film that goes straight to digital, and Christian shares how a collaboration with the 101st Airborne Division worked far better than the reels she paid to boost. Fourth, decide your objective before you start: paying back investors, or getting the film seen, which is where Virgil's service deals come in. Fifth, treat the film as a business, with money set aside for you and for marketing.

Full disclosure: since 2022, Joe's company, Virgil Films, has distributed Christian's film The Girl Who Wore Freedom, and it now sponsors Documentary First. This 2023 episode has no sponsor read.

In this episode, you'll learn:

• The story Joe tells about the meeting that turned Netflix against Blockbuster
• What Joe told Netflix when it first asked for 100 movies to stream
• Why making your film is only half the miracle
• Which trade publications Joe says every filmmaker should read
• Why a film publicist may not be worth $20,000 for a direct-to-digital release
• How a partnership with the 101st Airborne Division outperformed paid social media
• What a distribution service deal is, and who it's for
• Why your film budget needs money for you and for marketing

CHAPTERS

0:00 Joe's First Video Store

8:04 Raiders and a Gym Bag

11:02 How Netflix Beat Blockbuster

14:20 Streaming's Boom and Bust

21:08 Half the Miracle

30:34 Which Trades to Read?

33:16 Learn From the Masters

35:26 Marketing After Newspapers

42:10 Why Are You Making It?

44:51 Your Film Is a Business

47:14 What Should a Doc Budget Be?

50:15 Fire of Love and Sr.

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

What should filmmakers know about the film business?

On Documentary First, Christian Taylor and distributor Joe Amodei of Virgil Films walk through five points. Know the business you are getting into and read the trades. Watch movies of every kind and learn from the masters. Learn film marketing, because newspapers no longer review most films. Decide your objective before you start, whether that is paying back investors or getting the film seen. And treat your film as a business, with its own bank account, accountant and lawyer.

What trade publications should filmmakers read?

Joe Amodei says to start with Deadline, Variety and The Hollywood Reporter, read online every day; he looks at them first thing each morning. He adds Screen Daily, which is UK-based and more European, and TheWrap. Christian Taylor adds Realscreen, whose emails she gets for free, and says the top three or four are worth paying for and belong in a filmmaker's budget.

How much should an independent documentary cost?

Speaking in 2023, Joe Amodei told Documentary First he would not go much past $200,000, $250,000 tops, for an independent documentary, because there were very few places left to sell it. He said the answer could change within months. He also said the budget should hold back money for marketing, a big chunk, and some pay for the filmmaker, even $5,000 or $10,000, so you haven't worked for nothing.

What is a distribution service deal?

Joe Amodei describes it as a deal for filmmakers who mainly want their film available, often first-time filmmakers or those whose film every distributor passed on. The filmmaker pays Virgil Films a fee, which isn't recoupable, and Virgil guarantees the film will be put up on iTunes, Amazon and Vudu. Being able to tell investors the finished film is on Amazon helps a filmmaker raise money for the next one.

DOCUVIEW DÉJÀ VU PICKS

Joe's pick: Fire of Love, the National Geographic documentary about a husband and wife who followed volcanoes, nominated for an Academy Award.

Christian's pick: Sr., the documentary Robert Downey Jr. made with director Chris Smith about his father, shot in black and white.

LISTEN AND FOLLOW

Listen and subscribe wherever you get podcasts: https://pod.fo/e/4a800e

Watch on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@documentaryfirst

SUPPORT THE SHOW

Join our community on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/c/DocumentaryFirst

CONNECT WITH DOCUMENTARY FIRST

All platforms: https://linktr.ee/doc1st

Christian Taylor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meetchristiantaylor

ABOUT THE GUEST

Joe Amodei

Founder of Virgil Films and Entertainment; director of Cold War in Philly

Joe Amodei has worked in film distribution for more than 40 years, starting in home video retail in Philadelphia. In 2000 he became president of USA Home Entertainment (Traffic, Being John Malkovich, Gosford Park), and he went on to create Virgil Films and Entertainment, whose releases include Super Size Me, Restrepo, Forks Over Knives and Glen Campbell: I'll Be Me. He won a 2020 New York Emmy for The Real Bedford Falls: It's a Wonderful Life. In 2026 he released his first film as a director, Cold War in Philly: Flyers vs Russia 1976.

Virgil Films: https://virgilfilms.com

Cold War in Philly: https://coldwarinphilly.com

Virgil Films on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/virgilfilms

Virgil Films on X: https://x.com/VirgilFilms

Virgil Films on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/VirgilFilms

ABOUT VIRGIL FILMS

Virgil Films and Entertainment is an independent distributor of documentaries and independent features. It releases only a few films a month so it can work each one with its filmmaker.

ABOUT DOCUMENTARY FIRST

Documentary First is a weekly podcast about the people behind documentaries and how the work changed them. Host Christian Taylor, director of the award-winning The Girl Who Wore Freedom, talks with filmmakers from Ken Burns to first-time directors. Listen Notes ranks the show in the top 5% of all podcasts worldwide.

THE DISTRIBUTION SERIES

• Episode 128, Joe's first visit, from a video store to Super Size Me: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S6zHmPe97nI
• Episode 198, Cannes part one, the film market: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mUqEAz87js
• Episode 199, Cannes part two, why documentaries are hard to sell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiJfjJIuMY0
• Episode 216, getting distributed part one, who can you trust: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tLfror_514
• Episode 218, getting distributed part two, distribution expenses: