Episode 15: Narcissistic Mothers and Their Adult Daughters

“I thought I met the man of my dreams, and he turned out to be one of the biggest con men in history,” shares Benita Alexander, a highly accomplished journalist and executive producer. In this episode, she joins Dr. Z to recount her harrowing experience with love fraud at the hands of Dr. Paolo Macchiarini. Benita’s story, featured in the Netflix documentary “Bad Surgeon: Love Under the Knife” and the Wondery podcast “Dr. Death,” serves as a chilling reminder that even the most intelligent and successful individuals can fall victim to the manipulative blueprint of narcissists.    Benita met Macchiarini during a vulnerable period in her life. His charm and apparent empathy quickly drew her in, leading to a whirlwind romance. However, as their relationship progressed, red flags began to emerge, which Benita initially dismissed due to Macchiarini’s convincing explanations.    Dr. Z and Benita explore the psychological impact of such a profound betrayal, emphasizing the difficulty of recognizing, and escaping from, a narcissistic abusive relationship. They discuss how factors such as intelligence and success do not necessarily immunize one from becoming vulnerable to this type of abuse. Benita’s courageous decision to go public with her story underscores the need to raise awareness about the dangers of people like Macchiarini, who exploit their victims’ trust for personal gain.   Exploring the complexities of narcissistic abuse, the insidious nature of love bombing, and the resilience required to rebuild one’s life after such a traumatic experience, this episode serves as both a cautionary tale and a source of inspiration for those who may find themselves entangled in similar situations.   Quotes “Any narcissist’s worst fear is the collapse—falling from the pedestal, their reputation being destroyed.” (36:35 | Benita Alexander)  “It takes so much courage for a woman to come forward and expose herself like that. And then, on top of it, to get attacked—it’s the reason people don’t talk about this kind of thing. That’s what’s so concerning to me because if we stay quiet and if women don’t feel comfortable enough to come forward and talk, it’s going to keep happening. These people—narcissists, con artists, sociopaths, whatever you want to call them—count on you being quiet. They count on you being too embarrassed and humiliated to talk. That’s why the lies keep escalating, because they don’t think they’re ever going to get caught.” (58:59 | Benita Alexander)  “I think it’s also important to realize—very, very important—not to blame yourself. I mean, what was your crime? You fell in love. You wanted to trust the person you fell in love with, and that’s a very normal thing. You didn’t do anything wrong. You were vulnerable. When you’re vulnerable and you fall in love, there’s a reason they say love is blind. But you never expect something this extreme to happen. You never expect someone to be lying to you about literally everything."  (01:05:41 | Benita Alexander)    Links Connect with Benita Alexander: https://www.benitaalexander.com/ Follow Benita Alexander on Instagram and Tiktok: @benitaalexander_official Listen to her podcast on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFkA9DcX8W0&t=457s   Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/ https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/ https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/ https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

9 Elo 20241h 16min

“In a narcissistically abusive relationship, sex can become a tool of weaponry, a tool of control,” declares Dr. Kate Balestrieri, a licensed psychologist and certified sex therapist. In this episode, she joins Dr. Z to unpack the intricate relationship between sex and Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD).   Dr. Balestrieri, founder of Modern Intimacy and host of the “Get Naked with Dr. Kate” podcast, delves into the subtle tactics of sexual coercion and emotional manipulation commonly used by someone with NPD. She discusses how, within these relationships, sex is used as a tool to seek validation, power, and control. The conversation also touches on the function and impact of infidelity and pornography in these relationship dynamics.   Listen to this episode of Next Up: Narcissism to get a deep and insightful look into the role of sex within Narcissistic Personality Disorder, offering valuable strategies for those who are affected by this type of abusive behavior.    Quotes “In a narcissistically abusive relationship, sex can become a tool of weaponry, a tool of control. It becomes bait, a way to keep someone suctioned into the relationship. It provides a false sense of security and can be a bomb used to perpetuate the cycle of abuse.” (03:13 | Dr. Kate Balestrieri)  “When we understand narcissism, we recognize that it’s really about the person, organized in this fashion, trying to prop up a sense of self that they can feel okay about. At its core, narcissism is rooted in shame and self-loathing. Narcissists cope with these feelings by projecting various manufactured images. Sex becomes another tool they use to prop up that image for themselves and the world. It becomes a way for them to gain supply, attention, validation, control, and power.” (05:34 | Dr. Kate Balestrieri)  “We have to remember that narcissism is a condition of objectification. With a fragmented sense of self, they objectify everyone in their life; everyone serves a purpose to bolster them up. For someone partnered with a narcissist, their partner serves a particular function. One of the key elements of objectification is instrumentality, where the person becomes an object or instrument for serving the narcissist.” (24:36 | Dr. Kate Balestrieri)    Links Connect with Dr. Kate Balestrieri: TikTok @drkatebalestrieri https://www.tiktok.com/@drkatebalestrieri?lang=en IG: https://www.instagram.com/drkatebalestrieri Website: www.modernintimacy.com   Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/ https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/ https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/ https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

2 Elo 202439min

“I was in a quintessential trauma bond with my ex-husband, the ‘Wolf of Wall Street,’ Jordan Belfort,” says Dr. Nadine Macaluso. “It started, as most trauma bonds do, with love bombing and promises of love and adoration forever, along with extreme affection. It was very intense and fast-paced, and then it blew up like many trauma bonds do.”    Dr. Nadine, also known as Dr. Nae, is an author and licensed marriage and family therapist specializing in trauma bonds, narcissistic abuse, complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder (CPTSD), and somatic therapy. In this episode, Dr. Nae joins Dr. Z to share her own personal story of narcissistic abuse survival, including the psychological, emotional, financial, and legal challenges she faced within her own relationship with Jordan Belfort. She discusses her healing journey, and how her experiences navigating her own trauma bonding put her on the path to help those in similar circumstances. Dr. Nae emphasizes that the abusive behavior of a partner is never the victim’s fault, and that there is always hope and a path to healing.   In addition to her extensive clinical work, Dr. Nae is the author of “Run Like Hell: A Therapist’s Guide to Recognizing, Healing, and Escaping from Trauma Bonds.” Her work offers insights into identifying the signs of narcissistic abuse and how to break free from trauma bonds.    This episode is a powerful message of hope and resilience, encouraging listeners to recognize their own worth and seek the support they need to reclaim their sense of self.    Quotes “When he first wrote the book, which later became a movie, I just remember thinking inside, ‘I survived this incredible Greek tragedy,’ because that’s what it always felt like—the depth of the pain I had endured. And now it’s entertainment. Inside, I just said to myself, ‘You know, Nadine,’—I fought and wrestled with myself—but then I said, ‘This is bigger than you, and you have to surrender to this.’” (18:43 | Dr. Nadine Macaluso)  “We can’t build resiliency in isolation. The only way we can build authentic confidence is to approach what we fear. And so, with the help of people, never by myself, I just kept approaching life.” (27:20 | Dr. Nadine Macaluso)  “It really wasn’t spoken about, and it’s so great that it is now because it is a very isolating experience with so much shame and embarrassment. There’s just so much to climb through to get out of it. Then you have children and financial dependency, and the court system, right? It works against all of us in breaking free and getting healthier. Yet, here we are today having this conversation. My book was a labor of love; it was the hardest thing I’ve ever done. I don’t think I’ll ever do that again. It was a very humbling experience.” (40:03 | Dr. Nadine Macaluso)  “Trauma lives in the body. It’s an experience that overwhelms us, and our nervous system, unfortunately, integrates it… After a trauma bond, you feel so unsafe in the world. How do I get people to feel safe in their bodies? With breath work, grounding exercises, and really listening to their bodies. This helps them contain their feelings because there’s so much emotional dysregulation that happens. As we know, our thoughts and minds aren’t always our best friends. I always say the true self lives between your throat and your pelvic floor.” (42:08 | Dr. Nadine Macaluso)    Links Connect with Nadine Macaluso: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/therealdrnadine/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@drnaelmft Run Like Hell: A Therapist’s Guide to Recognizing, Healing, and Escaping from Trauma Bonds: https://amzn.to/3KRssRF Website: https://drnae.com/   Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/ https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/ https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/ https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

19 Heinä 202447min

“They actually thrive and enjoy being in this drama, trauma, and chaos, getting people stirred up,” says Rebecca Zung, describing high conflict personalities. In this episode, Dr. Z talks with Rebecca, a top-ranked trial lawyer, high conflict negotiator, and international bestselling author of “Slay the Bully: How to Negotiate with a Narcissist and Win.”   Rebecca explains that while those with high conflict personalities will often demonstrate narcissistic traits, this does not necessarily mean they have a diagnosis of Narcissistic Personality Disorder. Dr. Z emphasizes the importance of understanding the function of someone’s behavior, or the underlying “why” behind it. This helps when formulating responses and implementing boundaries with a high conflict individual.    The episode covers Rebecca’s S.L.A.Y. (Strategy, Leverage, Anticipate, and You) method for negotiating with high conflict personalities, offering practical advice for those facing high conflict divorce or custody battles. Rebecca details each component of her SLAY method, highlighting the need to create a vision, build leverage within the dynamic, anticipate their next moves, and maintain a strong, self-focused mindset.   Packed with insights and how-to strategies, this episode of Next Up: Narcissism is a valuable resource for anyone dealing with high conflict personalities and narcissistic abuse.   Quotes “A high conflict personality literally thrives on constantly stirring the pot in every area they can, all the time, no matter where they go. It’s almost like Pigpen in Charlie Brown, who always had that cloud around him. That’s how it is with a high conflict personality. Wherever they go, there’s always something brewing.” (05:21 | Rebecca Zung)  “People with high conflict personalities, narcissistic personalities, or even just extreme narcissistic traits, they're not going to therapy and getting diagnosed. And if they do, it’s either court mandated, or they go once then they don’t come back again. They go to a million different therapists until they find one that’s going to buy into their bullshit. And that's what happens… And I think also, with social media, certain people don’t get away with certain things anymore. And people have more knowledge about it. So we’re hearing about it more. Are people misdiagnosed by society? Yeah, they are… Narcissism is a very distinct thing.” (10:52 | Dr. Z)  “My S.L.A.Y. method is the blueprint. I call it a blueprint as well. It’s basically a roadmap to get exactly where you want to go, to win your negotiations, to win in court, to win in communication, whatever it is that you want to do. It’s a four-step playbook to help you visualize where you want to go and then just create the plan.” (20:44 | Rebecca Zung)    Links Connect with Rebecca Zung:   https://shareasale.com/r.cfm?b=2303615&u=4279579&m=139677&urllink=&afftrack=   Slay Your Negotiation with a Narcissist:  https://shareasale.com/r.cfm?b=2319861&u=4279579&m=139677&urllink=&afftrack=   SLAY the Bully: How to Negotiate with a Narcissist and Win: https://amzn.to/3WibKBw   For the FREE Crush My Negotiation Prep Playbook: https://winmynegotiation.com/ Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/ https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/ https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/ https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

12 Heinä 202448min

“What is happening behind closed doors of the family court system would horrify everyone in the country and around the world if they truly knew,” says Tina Swithin, renowned family court advocate, author of the “Divorcing a Narcissist” book series, blogger and owner of One Mom’s Battle, and founder of the High Conflict Divorce Coach Certification Program. In this episode, Dr. Z and Tina discuss the often deeply flawed family court system, particularly in cases involving high-conflict divorce.   Tina sheds light on the dark underbelly of the “alienation industry,” detailing the disturbing practices of reunification camps and the resulting psychological trauma these camps have on children as well as the healthy parent.     Highlighting her ongoing legislative success in banning these camps, Tina emphasizes the continued need for careful documentation, local support networks, and increased advocacy to push for system reform. Dr. Z and Tina provide essential advice and resources for those involved in high-conflict divorces, stressing the importance of awareness, support, and meticulous documentation as they navigate the family court system.   Quotes “The first step towards change is awareness on these topics. We need to be talking about it because there are so many survivors of domestic violence who believe the messaging from society—just be brave, leave. And then they assume that once they step foot into the family court system, that they are going to be protected and that their children are going to be protected. That’s absolutely not what’s happening.” (04:05 | Tina Swithin) “I think that the family court system is working the way it was designed. A lot of people say it’s broken. It’s like, no, it’s doing what it was designed to do. It has become an industrial complex. It has become an incredibly lucrative industry where it attracts a lot of very unscrupulous professionals, ‘professionals’ who are not there for the right reasons. They’re there for profit. And it should be what is in the child’s best interest.” (05:17 | Tina Swithin) “The industry that has been created around the thought that two parents are absolutely critical to a child, they’ve created their own industry: reunification industry, alienation industry. By the time I retire, I hope it’s exposed. It will go down in history as the biggest multilevel marketing scheme of our lifetime.” (29:39 | Tina Swithin)    Links Sign Up for my LIVE Summer Support Group here: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops   Connect with Tina Swithin: One Moms Battle: https://www.onemomsbattle.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/onemomsbattle/ X: https://x.com/onemomsbattle Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/onemomsbattle TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@onemomsbattle?lang=en Book: https://amzn.to/3VcdjPC   Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/ https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/ https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/ https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

5 Heinä 202450min

“In today’s society, we’re often taught that these are two very separate things,” says Dr. Z as she delves into the impact that narcissistic abuse can have on physical health. “It couldn’t be further from the truth. Our brains and our bodies are one, and you really need to think about yourself in terms of how those two things are connected.”   In this episode, Dr. Z highlights how narcissistic abusive relationships can manifest physically within our bodies, leading to chronic conditions such as headaches, joint pain, menstrual cycle changes, high blood pressure, stomach issues, vision changes, hair loss, skin rashes, respiratory infections, and even autoimmune disease flare-ups. There are also a myriad of cognitive issues that can arise such as forgetfulness, poor attention and concentration, difficulty making everyday decisions, and a pervasive sense of fogginess and fatigue. Dr. Z explains how these issues stem from the body’s response to chronic stress resulting in elevated and prolonged spikes in cortisol levels (our stress hormone). While our brains and bodies are equipped to deal with short term stressors, exposure to the long-standing trauma and the stress of narcissistic abuse keeps the body stuck in a constant state of heightened alertness, leading to chronic inflammation and a wide range of long standing health problems.   She addresses the challenges many narcissistic abuse survivors face within the medical field, as several of their symptoms appear to have no immediate or identifiable cause. It is not uncommon for abuse survivors to be told that many of their medical complaints are “in their head,” or “just due to stress.”  This often leaves survivors feeling confused and invalidated by medical professionals.    Dr. Z also discusses the limitations of “talk therapy” as a standalone treatment approach for trauma, and strongly advocates for a comprehensive approach that acknowledges physical symptoms with a heavy focus on nervous system regulation. She also stresses the importance of a holistic approach, emphasizing the need to integrate breathing exercises, muscle relaxation, and mindfulness practices into specialized trauma informed therapy.    This episode reassures listeners that their symptoms are normal responses to abnormal situations and offers concrete strategies and tips for those who are experiencing physical health problems resulting from narcissistic abuse in their relationships.    Quotes “Being in the field of psychology, I was trained to understand that the body and the brain are one. They are not separate entities. And in today’s society, we’re often taught that there are two very separate things: there’s our mind and there’s our body and they do not interact. And it couldn’t be further from the truth.” (02:26 | Dr. Z)  “Our brains and our bodies are one and you really need to think about yourself in terms of how those two things are connected. To only consider one at a time is really not giving you the full picture and not going to help you understand why it is that your body’s responding a certain way in a narcissistic abusive relationship.” (02:24 | Dr. Z)  “You are not crazy. In fact, far from. Your body is actually doing what it’s supposed to be doing. The problem is that you’re not being chased by a tiger. You’re in a relationship where you are being coercively controlled, manipulated, and abused. And because of that chronic nature and that cycle of narcissistic abuse, you’re on a dimmer switch. You’re constantly being jolted with these releases of chemicals that are elevating inflammation in your body that are keeping you sick.” (27:56 | Dr. Z)  “There is a very good reason for why these things are happening. And I promise you that as you gain the strength to leave the narcissistic abusive relationship or to set serious limits and boundaries, you’re going to notice a direct impact on your physical health.” (28:56 | Dr. Z)    Links   Sign Up for my LIVE Summer Support Group here: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops   Subscribe to my email list for latest news, workshops and more! https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/newsletter   Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/ https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/ https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/ https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

28 Kesä 202433min

Today, the word “narcissist” is frequently thrown around and used within inappropriate contexts, such as a broad label for “toxic” individuals. How, then, do we differentiate between someone with unhealthy patterns and the manipulative behaviors of a person with NPD?  In this episode, Dr. Z talks with Dr. Les Carter, a clinical psychologist and founder of Surviving Narcissism, who provides deep insights into narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) including its specific cognitive processes and behaviors.     The discussion highlights the critical differences between those who display narcissistic patterns due to upbringing and those with a true NPD, emphasizing that the latter rarely changes due to a lack of internal values and inability to self-reflect. However, despite the challenges of treating someone with narcissistic “traits,” Dr. Carter shares a rare success story of a family member who overcame their narcissistic tendencies through personal crisis and therapy.   Dr. Carter explains that while those with NPD often react defensively to being labeled, they do possess a level of awareness about their manipulative actions, often acting secretly and evasively. The episode also delves into the concept of “dark empathy,” where narcissists use their understanding of others’ emotions for manipulation rather than connection. Dr. Carter notes that true empathy is hard to cultivate in those with NPD, especially older individuals.    Quotes “When they hear the word narcissist, it’s almost as though there’s a pathological fear that they have regarding that word. It’s like, ‘You’re not calling me that word, are you?’ And they just think of it as a dirty name, which tells you something already because if you’re being an objective person, then you would just say, ‘Why don't we talk about it? If you’re asking that question, I’d be more than happy to discuss it with you,’ which would be a very non-narcissistic way of responding. So the question is, do they know that they are being narcissistic? What they know is that you’re an idiot.” (02:57 | Dr. Les Carter)  “Narcissists do know that there’s something foul that they’re doing that offends other people, which is why they’re secretive, etc. But then the rationalization ingredient can become so powerful and so strong and so overwhelming that it overrides the truth.” (10:38 | Dr. Les Carter)  “You’re going to be able to tell most about an individual’s level of personal maturity by watching how they respond to conflict. And because healthy people can manage it... When you have somebody that’s on that extreme end of narcissistic personality and you bring this to their attention, they’re going to rationalize it. They’re not going to admit to anything. They’re not going to want to talk about any conflict. They’re not going to want to find a resolution unless the act of finding a resolution benefits them in some way.” (35:12 | Dr. Les Carter & Dr. Z)   Links Sign Up for my LIVE Virtual Summer Support Group here: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/workshops   Connect with Dr. Les Carter: YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@SurvivingNarcissism/featured Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/survivingnarcissism101 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/survivingnarcissism101/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/SNarcissism101   Connect with Dr. Jaime Zuckerman: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/ https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/ https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/ https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist Podcast production and show notes provided by HiveCast.fm

21 Kesä 202442min