Mike Wilson: The Increasing Risk of Recession

Mike Wilson: The Increasing Risk of Recession

As price to earnings multiples fall and inflation continues to weigh on the economy, long term earnings estimates may still be too high as the risk of a recession rises.

-----Transcript-----


Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Mike Wilson, Chief Investment Officer and Chief U.S. Equity Strategist for Morgan Stanley. Along with my colleagues, bringing you a variety of perspectives, I'll be talking about the latest trends in the financial marketplace. It's Tuesday, June 21st at 11 a.m. in New York. So let's get after it.


Coming into the year, we had a very out of consensus view that valuations would fall at least 20% due to rising interest rates and tighter monetary policy from the Fed. We also believed earnings were at risk, given payback and demand, rising costs and inventory. With price to earnings multiples falling by 28% year to date, the de-rating process is no longer much of a call, nor is it out of consensus. Having said that, many others are still assuming much higher price to earnings multiples for year end S&P 500 price targets. In contrast, we have lowered our price to earnings targets even further as 10 year U.S. Treasury yields have exceeded our expectations to the upside. In short, the price to earnings multiple should still fall towards 14x, assuming Treasury yields and earnings estimates remain stable. Of course, these are big assumptions.


At this point, a recession is no longer just a tail risk given the Fed's predicament with inflation. Indeed, this is the essence of our fire and ice narrative - the Fed having to tighten into a slowdown or worse. Our bear case for this year always assumed a recessionary outcome, but the odds were just 20%. Now they're closer to 35%, according to our economists. We would probably err a bit higher given our more negative view on the consumer and corporate profitability. From a market standpoint, this is just another reason why we think the equity risk premium could far exceed our fair value estimate of 370 basis points. Of course, the 10 year Treasury yield will not be static in a recession either, and would likely fall considerably if growth expectations plunge. For example, the equity risk premium exceeded 600 basis points during the last two recessions. We appreciate that the next recession is unlikely to be accompanied by a crisis like the housing bust in 2008, or a pandemic in 2020. Therefore, we're willing to accept a lower upside target of 500 basis points should a recession come to pass.


Should the risk of recession increase to the point where it becomes the market's base case, it would also come alongside a much lower earnings per share forecast. In other words, a recession would imply a much lower trough for the S&P 500 of approximately 3000 rather than our base case of 3400 we've been using lately.


As of Friday's close, our negative view is not nearly as fat of a pitch, with so much of the street now in our camp on both financial conditions and growth. Having said that, the upside is quite limited as well, making the near-term a bit of a gamble. Equity markets are very oversold, but they can stay oversold until market participants feel like the risk of recession has been extinguished or at least reduced considerably. We do not see that outcome in the near term. However, we can't rule it out either and appreciate that markets can be quite fickle in the short term on both the downside and the upside. What we can say with more certainty today versus a few months ago is that earnings estimates are too high, even in the event a recession is avoided. Our base case 3400 near-term downside target accounts for the kind of earnings risk we envision in the event a soft landing is accomplished.


For us, the end game remains the same. We see a poor risk reward over the next 3 to 6 months, with recession risk rising in the face of very stubborn inflation readings. Valuations are closer to fair at this point, but hardly a bargain if earnings are likely to come down or a recession is coming. While investors have suffered quite a setback this year, we can't yet get bullish for more than just a bear market rally until recession arrives or the risk of one falls materially. At the stock level, we continue to favor late cycle defensives and companies with high operational efficiency.


Thanks for listening. If you enjoy Thoughts on the Market, please take a moment to rate and review us on the Apple Podcast app. It helps more people to find the show.

Jaksot(1586)

Special Series: Which Way is U.S. Spending Trending?

Special Series: Which Way is U.S. Spending Trending?

Which generations spend more: Boomers or Millennials/Gen Z? On this special episode, equity analyst Lauren Cassel takes a look at which sectors stand to gain in the years ahead.

17 Syys 20192min

Mike Wilson: Value Stocks Have Their Moment

Mike Wilson: Value Stocks Have Their Moment

On today’s podcast, Chief Investment Officer Mike Wilson dives into last week’s historic reversal between value and growth stocks. Can the value rally last?

16 Syys 20193min

Andrew Sheets: Is There a Downside to Cutting Interest Rates?

Andrew Sheets: Is There a Downside to Cutting Interest Rates?

On today’s podcast, Chief Cross-Asset Strategist Andrew Sheets asks the timely question, “If lower interest rates stimulate growth, why wouldn’t central banks lower them?”

13 Syys 20192min

Special Series: From Baby Boom to Youth Boom

Special Series: From Baby Boom to Youth Boom

Is America’s next heyday ahead? On this special episode, Chief U.S. Economist Ellen Zentner explains why America’s youth may be set to power U.S. GDP in the coming years.

10 Syys 20194min

Mike Wilson: Home on the Range Bound?

Mike Wilson: Home on the Range Bound?

On today's podcast, Investors may be feeling some déjà vu as upbeat news on trade drives a new rally. Could markets break out this time or is another correction ahead? Analysis from Chief Investment O...

9 Syys 20192min

Andrew Sheets: What Happens When the Price Isn’t Right?

Andrew Sheets: What Happens When the Price Isn’t Right?

On today’s podcast, Chief Cross-Asset Strategist Andrew Sheets says as global growth weakens, investors tend to focus on the most desirable companies (which are already priced to perfection). So what ...

6 Syys 20193min

Michael Zezas: Pondering a World of Unresolved Trade Issues

Michael Zezas: Pondering a World of Unresolved Trade Issues

On today’s podcast, Head of U.S. Public Policy Michael Zezas takes a moment to consider the long-term effects regardless of whether or not the U.S. and China are unable to negotiate a meaningful trade...

4 Syys 20191min

Mike Wilson: New Data Sends Concerning Signs for U.S. Stocks

Mike Wilson: New Data Sends Concerning Signs for U.S. Stocks

On today's podcast, Chief Investment Officer Mike Wilson says a popular narrative forecasted a rebound for the second half of 2019. However, new data on lower U.S. factory activity could counter that ...

3 Syys 20193min

Suosittua kategoriassa Liike-elämä ja talous

sijotuskasti
mimmit-sijoittaa
rss-rahapodi
psykopodiaa-podcast
rss-rahamania
rss-seuraava-potilas
herrasmieshakkerit
ostan-asuntoja-podcast
rahapuhetta
rss-20-30-40-podcast
taloudellinen-mielenrauha
rss-myynnilla-on-asiaa-kert-kenner
pomojen-suusta
rss-lahtijat
rss-karon-grilli
rss-sisalto-kuntoon
rss-draivi
rss-sami-miettinen-neuvottelija
rss-vaikuttavan-opettajan-vierella
rss-inderes-femme