#208 – Elizabeth Cox on the case that TV shows, movies, and novels can improve the world
80,000 Hours Podcast21 Marras 2024

#208 – Elizabeth Cox on the case that TV shows, movies, and novels can improve the world

"I think stories are the way we shift the Overton window — so widen the range of things that are acceptable for policy and palatable to the public. Almost by definition, a lot of things that are going to be really important and shape the future are not in the Overton window, because they sound weird and off-putting and very futuristic. But I think stories are the best way to bring them in." — Elizabeth Cox

In today’s episode, Keiran Harris speaks with Elizabeth Cox — founder of the independent production company Should We Studio — about the case that storytelling can improve the world.

Links to learn more, highlights, and full transcript.

They cover:

  • How TV shows and movies compare to novels, short stories, and creative nonfiction if you’re trying to do good.
  • The existing empirical evidence for the impact of storytelling.
  • Their competing takes on the merits of thinking carefully about target audiences.
  • Whether stories can really change minds on deeply entrenched issues, or whether writers need to have more modest goals.
  • Whether humans will stay relevant as creative writers with the rise of powerful AI models.
  • Whether you can do more good with an overtly educational show vs other approaches.
  • Elizabeth’s experience with making her new five-part animated show Ada — including why she chose the topics of civilisational collapse, kidney donations, artificial wombs, AI, and gene drives.
  • The pros and cons of animation as a medium.
  • Career advice for creative writers.
  • Keiran’s idea for a longtermist Christmas movie.
  • And plenty more.

Check out Ada on YouTube!

Material you might want to check out before listening:

Chapters:

  • Cold open (00:00:00)
  • Luisa's intro (00:01:04)
  • The interview begins (00:02:52)
  • Is storytelling really a high-impact career option? (00:03:26)
  • Empirical evidence of the impact of storytelling (00:06:51)
  • How storytelling can inform us (00:16:25)
  • How long will humans stay relevant as creative writers? (00:21:54)
  • Ada (00:33:05)
  • Debating the merits of thinking about target audiences (00:38:03)
  • Ada vs other approaches to impact-focused storytelling (00:48:18)
  • Why animation (01:01:06)
  • One Billion Christmases (01:04:54)
  • How storytelling can humanise (01:09:34)
  • But can storytelling actually change strongly held opinions? (01:13:26)
  • Novels and short stories (01:18:38)
  • Creative nonfiction (01:25:06)
  • Other promising ways of storytelling (01:30:53)
  • How did Ada actually get made? (01:33:23)
  • The hardest part of the process for Elizabeth (01:48:28)
  • Elizabeth’s hopes and dreams for Ada (01:53:10)
  • Designing Ada with an eye toward impact (01:59:16)
  • Alternative topics for Ada (02:05:33)
  • Deciding on the best way to get Ada in front of people (02:07:12)
  • Career advice for creative writers (02:11:31)
  • Wikipedia book spoilers (02:17:05)
  • Luisa's outro (02:20:42)


Producer: Keiran Harris
Audio engineering: Ben Cordell, Milo McGuire, Simon Monsour, and Dominic Armstrong
Content editing: Luisa Rodriguez, Katy Moore, and Keiran Harris
Transcriptions: Katy Moore

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