CTO Series: Mastering the CTPO Role, Katrina Clokie’s Guide to Tech and Product Leadership

CTO Series: Mastering the CTPO Role, Katrina Clokie’s Guide to Tech and Product Leadership

CTO Series: Mastering the CTPO Role, Katrina Clokie’s Guide to Tech and Product Leadership

In this BONUS episode, we sit down with Katrina Clokie, a seasoned leader in strategy, change management, and building inclusive teams. Katrina shares pivotal moments in her career, offers practical leadership insights, and discusses her role as Chief Technology and Product Officer (CTPO), where she’s balancing innovation with business objectives. Whether you’re an aspiring tech leader or looking to sharpen your leadership toolkit, Katrina’s wisdom will inspire you to embrace growth, resilience, and collaboration.

Defining Moments in Leadership

“Look for roles you can’t fully do yet—it’s the best way to grow.”

Katrina reflects on a transformative moment early in her career when a mentor from the shipping industry encouraged her to seek out challenging roles that would push her growth. This advice set her on the path to engineering management and C-level leadership. She shares how fostering curiosity and pursuing conversations about topics she didn’t yet fully understand has kept her continually learning.

“Ask yourself: where do I feel stretched? That’s often where the best growth opportunities lie.”

The Role of CTPO: Combining Technology and Product Strategy

“We needed both a unified vision and an efficient structure to remain competitive.”

Katrina discusses why her company created the CTPO role and how it reflects the size and growth stage of the organization. With no prior head of product, Katrina leaned into her experience while recognizing the importance of partnering with skilled product managers. She emphasizes the importance of having clear accountabilities and embracing growth within the role.

“The key is knowing when to lead and when to lean on your team’s expertise.”

Aligning Tech Strategy with Business Objectives

“Trade-offs are inevitable—make them strategically, not reactively.”

At Fergus, Katrina implemented clear guardrails, such as avoiding a complete rewrite of their decade-old monolith, focusing instead on retiring components that hindered stability and developer experience. She shares how they allocate 60% of engineering capacity to strategic initiatives and 40% to ongoing business needs, ensuring tech and business priorities stay aligned.

“Guardrails help teams make decisions that align with the big picture without constant oversight.”

Fostering Cross-Functional Collaboration

“Healthy conflict is necessary—escalation usually signals a breakdown in structure.”

Katrina describes how she structured cross-functional teams with clear goals and metrics to foster collaboration and ensure diverse perspectives are represented. She highlights the importance of empathy and role-modeling constructive conflict resolution at senior levels.

“A well-designed structure turns potential conflict into productive problem-solving.”

Roadmapping with Flexibility and Focus

“Roadmaps should guide—not handcuff—teams to long-term commitments.”

Katrina’s approach to roadmapping balances transparency and adaptability. By reserving only 60% of capacity for roadmap initiatives and keeping annual plans intentionally light, her teams can pivot when necessary without overcommitting. Frequent, smaller releases (up to 160 changes per month) help deliver value continuously.

“Leave room in your roadmap to handle surprises without derailing progress.”

Scaling Teams During Rapid Growth

“Avoid constant recruiting—it can burn out your leaders and upset team dynamics.”

Drawing from her experience at Xero, Katrina advises against an “always-on” recruitment strategy, which can overwhelm hiring managers and disrupt team cohesion. Instead, she recommends batch hiring and partnering with finance and talent teams to manage hiring budgets in stages.

“Hiring in waves allows teams to stabilize and thrive, rather than constantly adjusting.”

Overcoming the Challenges of Growth and Constraints

“Shifting from hyper-growth to steady growth meant saying ‘no’ more often and being precise.”

Katrina shares how transitioning from an environment of rapid scaling to a more constrained SaaS company required a shift in her approach to decision-making. She focused on making the business context clear to her team, fostering trust and transparency in her decision-making process.

“When people understand the ‘why’ behind constraints, they’re more likely to trust the process.”

Recommended Reads for Tech Leaders

Katrina shares the books that have shaped her leadership journey:

“Great leadership isn’t innate—it’s learned through mentorship, reflection, and resources.”

Scaling Your Influence as a Leader

From her experience at global companies to her current role, Katrina’s insights on transparency, collaboration, and strategic trade-offs provide a blueprint for navigating the complexities of tech leadership.

“Leadership isn’t about having all the answers—it’s about empowering your team and staying open to learning.”

About Katrina Clokie

Katrina Clokie is a respected leader in strategy, change management, and building inclusive teams. A keynote speaker at international conferences, she is passionate about leadership and communication. Her book, A Practical Guide to Testing in DevOps, has reached over 7,000 readers. In 2018, she was a finalist for New Zealand’s Inspiring Individual of the Year Award.

You can link with Katrina Clokie on LinkedIn.

Jaksot(200)

Three Toxic Conditions That Destroy Agile Team Effectiveness | Irene Castagnotto

Three Toxic Conditions That Destroy Agile Team Effectiveness | Irene Castagnotto

Irene Castagnotto: Three Toxic Conditions That Destroy Agile Team Effectiveness Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Irene encountered a team where everything appeared perfect on the surface, but underneath lay a complete lack of transparency. The team displayed negativity while their manager prevented them from taking responsibility, asking them to complete tasks without explaining the reasoning. These three toxic conditions—negativity, lack of transparency, and micromanagement—combined to destroy the team's effectiveness. Initially hesitant to speak up, Irene ultimately chose to leave. Reflecting on this experience, she emphasizes the importance of addressing problems directly with leadership rather than simply escaping the situation. In this segment, we refer to the 5 monkeys experiment, as comment on conditioning that happens in groups. Featured Book of the Week: Switch by the Heath Brothers Switch: How to Change Things When Change Is Hard by the Heath Brothers focuses on understanding change and why it's challenging for people. According to Irene, change isn't difficult because people resist it, but because it creates internal conflict within us. The Heath Brothers explain the three essential elements needed for successful change: the rational rider (logical thinking), the emotional elephant (feelings and motivation), and the path (the environment and systems). The book provides practical guidance on how to facilitate change and help people navigate transitions effectively, emphasizing the importance of celebrating achievements throughout the change process. Self-reflection Question: What internal conflicts might be preventing positive changes in your team, and how can you address both the rational and emotional aspects of resistance? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Irene Castagnotto Irene, a Gen Z Italian Scrum Master, began her Agile journey at a young age. With a positive and passionate approach, she aims to help her generation navigate the world of work with confidence and serenity, while supporting teams in unlocking their full potential. You can link with Irene Castagnotto on LinkedIn.

19 Elo 16min

When Proactive Help Backfires - A Gen Z Scrum Master's Learning Journey | Irene Castagnotto

When Proactive Help Backfires - A Gen Z Scrum Master's Learning Journey | Irene Castagnotto

Irene Castagnotto: When Proactive Help Backfires - A Gen Z Scrum Master's Learning Journey Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Irene shares a valuable lesson about the pitfalls of being overly proactive without proper communication. As a new Scrum Master, she observed Product Owners struggling with role changes and took initiative to help them understand and implement changes. However, she discovered that her well-intentioned proposals weren't aligned with what the POs actually wanted. The key insight: when people don't speak up during your proposals, it often means they're not on board but are avoiding conflict. Irene learned that asking questions and letting others express what changes they're ready for is far more effective than assuming what help is needed. Self-reflection Question: How can you better gauge whether your team is genuinely on board with your suggestions, especially when they remain silent during discussions? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Irene Castagnotto Irene, a Gen Z Italian Scrum Master, began her Agile journey at a young age. With a positive and passionate approach, she aims to help her generation navigate the world of work with confidence and serenity, while supporting teams in unlocking their full potential. You can link with Irene Castagnotto on LinkedIn.

18 Elo 15min

BONUS The Management Revolution Transforming Company Culture and Employee Engagement | Rob Gallaher

BONUS The Management Revolution Transforming Company Culture and Employee Engagement | Rob Gallaher

BONUS: Rob Gallaher Reveals The Management Revolution Transforming Company Culture and Employee Engagement In this BONUS episode, we dive deep into the transformative power of profit sharing with Rob Gallaher, CEO of Gallaher Co. Rob shares his journey from an overworked entrepreneur sacrificing family time to building a thriving business model that aligns employee success with company growth. Through practical insights and hard-learned lessons, we explore how monthly profit sharing can revolutionize workplace dynamics and create genuine shared success. The Genesis of a Profit Sharing Revolution "I was an entrepreneur, working long hours and sacrificing family time. I realized my situation in life was not so good anymore, and even my health was suffering." Rob Gallaher's journey to profit sharing began with a personal crisis. As a successful entrepreneur, he found himself trapped in the classic founder's dilemma - working endless hours while his health and family relationships suffered. This realization prompted him to seek alternative business models from other successful owners. His discovery of profit sharing wasn't immediate magic, but rather a methodical approach to solving the fundamental disconnect between business success and employee engagement. Since implementing it in 2015, Rob has refined his approach through real-world application, leading him to document his learnings in his book after others began noticing the remarkable success of his companies. Defining True Profit Sharing "Take the company's financial success and share it with individuals that make it happen. The main thing: it must be monthly." Rob's definition of profit sharing goes beyond traditional annual bonuses or stock options. His approach centers on taking actual company profits and distributing them to the people who directly contribute to generating those profits. The cornerstone of his system is monthly distribution, recognizing that people manage their personal finances on a monthly basis, not quarterly or annually. This frequency ensures that profit sharing becomes integrated into employees' monthly budgets and thinking patterns, creating immediate behavioral impact rather than distant, abstract benefits. The Power of Immediate Impact "No one manages quarterly their personal life. The profit sharing needs to adapt to that monthly reality. If we don't affect people's monthly budget we don't affect how they think." The monthly frequency of Rob's profit sharing system creates tangible, immediate impact on employees' financial lives. Unlike equity or long-term bonuses that feel distant and uncertain, monthly profit sharing becomes part of employees' regular financial planning. This immediacy changes how people approach their work, leading them to ask "what can I do to get it" and investing more personally in company success. Rob emphasizes making the amounts substantial - recommending four-digit numbers that genuinely affect people's monthly reality rather than token gestures that get lost in regular paychecks. Rethinking Performance Management "I don't like the word 'review'. I prefer the word 'reflection', we do it every 6 months. I wanted to change the tone and what was happening in those meetings." Traditional performance reviews create antagonistic dynamics where employees feel anxious and stressed, often leading to negotiations that feel like battles. Rob has completely reimagined this process by separating profit sharing from performance evaluations and changing the language from "reviews" to "reflections." This shift eliminates the transactional nature of traditional reviews where employees feel they must fight for raises and promotions. Instead, profit sharing operates independently of individual performance metrics, creating a more collaborative and less stressful environment for genuine performance discussions. Strategic Implementation Framework "You need a business that makes a profit, you need to have accurate accounting, and you need to be a leader - you need to have the respect and trust of your leadership." Rob outlines three fundamental prerequisites for successful profit sharing implementation. First, the business must be genuinely profitable - you cannot share what doesn't exist. Second, accurate accounting systems are essential to track and calculate profits transparently. Third, leadership credibility is crucial because profit sharing requires employees to trust that leaders will follow through on commitments. Rob recommends starting with a flat rate and minimum amount, such as $1,000, and focusing on decision-makers who directly affect company profitability rather than attempting to include every employee from the start. Targeting Decision Makers "Who are the people who make decisions that affect the profit of your business? Share the profit with the decision makers that affect profit." Rather than implementing company-wide profit sharing immediately, Rob advocates for a targeted approach focusing on employees who make decisions directly impacting profitability. This strategic selection ensures that profit sharing reaches the people whose daily choices most influence company success. By identifying and rewarding these key decision-makers first, companies can create a focused impact that generates measurable results before expanding the program to additional team members. Getting Started: First Steps for Implementation "Figure out your average profit." For companies interested in profit sharing but unsure where to begin, Rob recommends starting with fundamental financial analysis. Understanding average monthly profits provides the baseline for determining sustainable sharing amounts. This analysis helps leaders set realistic expectations and design a program that won't compromise business stability while still providing meaningful benefits to employees. The key is ensuring that profit sharing enhances rather than threatens the company's financial foundation. About Rob Gallaher Rob Gallaher, CEO of Gallaher Co., leads five companies across industries. Since founding his construction firm in 2010, he's championed profit sharing as a catalyst for growth. His book, Profit Sharing: The Power of Shared Success, and upcoming course reflect his passion for aligning employee and company success. You can also learn more about Rob’s Profit Sharing strategy with his online course at Profitx.co. You can link with Rob Gallaher on LinkedIn, and connect with Rob Gallaher on facebook.

16 Elo 45min

When Technical Expertise Becomes Product Owner Micro-Managements | Somya Mehra

When Technical Expertise Becomes Product Owner Micro-Managements | Somya Mehra

Somya Mehra: When Technical Expertise Becomes Product Owner Micro-Management Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. The Great Product Owner: The Clear Communicator and Dependency Master Somya worked with an exceptional Product Owner on a project with multiple team dependencies. This PO excelled at clear, direct communication with both stakeholders and the team. They were proactive in stakeholder communication and maintained strong focus on what was needed and why. Their backlog management was exemplary, creating proper epics with comprehensive information including dependencies, enabling the team to easily know who to contact. This approach led to a much more motivated team. The Bad Product Owner: The Technical Micro-Manager Somya encountered a technically strong Product Owner whose knowledge became a liability. While technical strength can be beneficial, this PO used their expertise to control the team, telling developers exactly what solutions to implement. Initially, developers accepted this direction, but it escalated to every feature and task. The developers became uncomfortable voicing their perspectives, creating an unhealthy dynamic where the PO's technical knowledge stifled team autonomy and creativity. Self-reflection Question: How do you help Product Owners leverage their technical knowledge without falling into micro-management patterns? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Somya Mehra  Somya is a Scrum Master at u-blox with nearly 7 years of IT experience across India and Finland. With experience in Waterfall and Agile models, she leads with empathy and a people-first approach. Somya is deeply interested in human behavior and understanding the motivations behind people's actions. You can link with Somya Mehra on LinkedIn.

15 Elo 16min

Why Collaboration Should Be Your Team's Primary Goal | Somya Mehra

Why Collaboration Should Be Your Team's Primary Goal | Somya Mehra

Somya Mehra: Why Collaboration Should Be Your Team's Primary Goal Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Unlike technical roles where success is tangible, Scrum Master success can be harder to measure, especially for those transitioning from tech roles. Somya defines successful Scrum Master performance through team behaviors: when teams trust and respect each other, and when collaboration becomes their goal. She emphasizes the importance of observing behaviors and discussing them with team members early enough to foster the right behaviors within the team. Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: The 2 Pillars Retrospective Somya recommends the 2 Pillars retrospective format, which she intentionally varies to keep teams engaged and curious. Her core structure focuses on two essential questions: "What went well?" and "How can we improve?" She notices that using the same retrospective format repeatedly leads to team boredom, so she adds variety while maintaining these fundamental pillars. In specific cases, she includes a gratitude section to ensure team members feel appreciated. Self-reflection Question: How do you measure your success as a Scrum Master when the results aren't as tangible as in technical roles? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Somya Mehra  Somya is a Scrum Master at u-blox with nearly 7 years of IT experience across India and Finland. With experience in Waterfall and Agile models, she leads with empathy and a people-first approach. Somya is deeply interested in human behavior and understanding the motivations behind people's actions. You can link with Somya Mehra on LinkedIn.

14 Elo 13min

From Top-Down to Collaborative—Reimagining Organizational Restructuring | Somya Mehra

From Top-Down to Collaborative—Reimagining Organizational Restructuring | Somya Mehra

Somya Mehra: From Top-Down to Collaborative—Reimagining Organizational Restructuring Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. During a business unit split and reorganization focused on creating smaller teams, Somya and her fellow Scrum Masters were invited to create the new structure process. After hearing feedback that teams felt excluded from previous changes, they decided to include teams in the reorganization process to give them a sense of control. They started by asking top management for constraints, then applied them to see what was possible. They facilitated workshops with Product Owners to divide the product portfolio and determine team assignments, ensuring people felt involved in the change process. Self-reflection Question: When leading organizational change, how do you balance the need for structure with giving teams meaningful input into decisions that affect them? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Somya Mehra  Somya is a Scrum Master at u-blox with nearly 7 years of IT experience across India and Finland. With experience in Waterfall and Agile models, she leads with empathy and a people-first approach. Somya is deeply interested in human behavior and understanding the motivations behind people's actions. You can link with Somya Mehra on LinkedIn.

13 Elo 13min

How Upper Management Can Destroy a High-Performing Team in Minutes | Somya Mehra

How Upper Management Can Destroy a High-Performing Team in Minutes | Somya Mehra

Somya Mehra: How Upper Management Can Destroy a High-Performing Team in Minutes Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. While working as a business analyst at a startup building an exam evaluation product for universities, Somya witnessed a well-functioning team with good collaboration and timely delivery. However, upper management began challenging the team lead and Scrum Master, accusing the team of padding story points. When leadership confronted the team, the tech lead threw the entire team under the bus, breaking all trust. The CEO's declaration that he could detect padding in estimates shattered the relationship between developers and leadership, leading team members to want to leave. Featured Book of the Week: Agile Retrospectives by Larsen and Derby Somya recommends "Agile Retrospectives" by Larsen and Derby because doing Scrum right means doing retrospectives right. As someone who wanted to excel as a retro facilitator, she found this book invaluable due to its excellent reviews and practical examples. The book provides several examples of how to facilitate retrospectives effectively, making it her go-to recommendation for Scrum Masters wanting to improve their retrospective facilitation skills. Self-reflection Question: How do you maintain trust between your team and leadership when management questions the team's estimates or performance? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Somya Mehra  Somya is a Scrum Master at u-blox with nearly 7 years of IT experience across India and Finland. With experience in Waterfall and Agile models, she leads with empathy and a people-first approach. Somya is deeply interested in human behavior and understanding the motivations behind people's actions. You can link with Somya Mehra on LinkedIn.

12 Elo 16min

Learning to Spot Team Performance Warning Signs Early As A Scrum Master | Somya Mehra

Learning to Spot Team Performance Warning Signs Early As A Scrum Master | Somya Mehra

Somya Mehra: Learning to Spot Team Performance Warning Signs Early Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. At the start of Somya's Scrum Master journey, she joined a well-organized and balanced team. However, after two senior developers left the company, the team faced unexpected challenges. Despite hiring new people, velocity didn't improve. Somya discovered that a remaining senior developer had been stepping back and wasn't contributing actively to the team. Through conversations and giving specific tickets to the senior developer, Somya learned valuable lessons about early intervention and communication. Self-reflection Question: How quickly do you address performance concerns with team members, and what signals do you watch for to identify when someone might be disengaging? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Somya Mehra  Somya is a Scrum Master at u-blox with nearly 7 years of IT experience across India and Finland. With experience in Waterfall and Agile models, she leads with empathy and a people-first approach. Somya is deeply interested in human behavior and understanding the motivations behind people's actions. You can link with Somya Mehra on LinkedIn.

11 Elo 14min

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