Have Markets Hit Peak Optimism?

Have Markets Hit Peak Optimism?

Our Head of Corporate Credit Research Andrew Sheets argues that while investor hopes are running high, corporate confidence isn’t.


----- Transcript -----


Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Andrew Sheets, Head of Corporate Credit Research at Morgan Stanley. Today I’m going to talk about optimism, how we measure it, whether it’s overly excessive and what lies ahead.

It's Friday January 24th at 2pm in London.

A central tenet of investing, including credit investing, is to be on the lookout for excessive optimism. By definition, the highest prices in a market cycle will happen when people are the most convinced that only great things lie ahead. The lowest prices, when you’d love to buy, happen when investors have given up all hope.

But identifying peak optimism, in real time, is tricky. It’s tricky because there is no generally agreed definition; and it's tricky because, sometimes, things just are good. Investors have been excited about the US Technology sector for more than a decade now. And yet this sector has managed to deliver extraordinary profit growth over this time – and extraordinarily good returns.

Yet this debate does feel relevant. The US equity market has soared over 50 per cent in the last two years. Equity valuations are historically high, both outright and relative to bonds. Credit risk premiums are near 20-year lows. Speculative investor activity is increasing. And so, have we finally hit peak optimism, a level from which we can go no further?

Our answer, for better or worse, is no. While we think investor optimism is elevated, corporate optimism is not. And corporations are really important in this debate, enjoying enormous financial resources that can invest in the economy or other companies. While we do think corporate confidence will pick up, it is going to take some time.

One of our favorite measures of corporate confidence is merger and acquisition activity. Buying another company is one of the riskiest things management can do, making it a great proxy for underlying corporate confidence. Volumes of this type of activity rose about 25 per cent last year, but they are still well below historical averages. And it would be really unusual for a major market cycle to end without this sort of activity being above-trend.

Another metric is the riskiness of new borrowing. Taking on new debt is another measure of corporate confidence, as you generally do something like this when you feel good about the future, and your ability to pay that debt off. But for the last three years the volume of low-rated debt in the US market has actually been shrinking, while the issuance of the riskiest grades of corporate borrowing is also down significantly from the 2017-2022 average. Again, these are not the types of trends you’d expect with excessive corporate optimism.

Uncertainties around tariffs, or the policies from the new US administration could still hold corporate confidence back. But the low starting point for corporate confidence, combined with what we expect to be a deregulatory push, mean we think it is more likely that corporate activity and aggressiveness have room to rise – and that this continues throughout 2025. Such an increase usually does present greater risk down the line; but for now, we think it is too early to position for those more negative consequences of increasing corporate aggression.

Thanks for listening. If you enjoy the show, leave us a review wherever you listen and share Thoughts on the Market with a friend or colleague today.

Jaksot(1611)

Michael Zezas: Investors Look for Progress on U.S-China Trade

Michael Zezas: Investors Look for Progress on U.S-China Trade

On today’s podcast, Head of U.S. Public Policy Michael Zezas says a potential improvement in some key U.S. economic indicators will need real progress on trade—not just headlines.

18 Syys 20192min

Special Series: Which Way is U.S. Spending Trending?

Special Series: Which Way is U.S. Spending Trending?

Which generations spend more: Boomers or Millennials/Gen Z? On this special episode, equity analyst Lauren Cassel takes a look at which sectors stand to gain in the years ahead.

17 Syys 20192min

Mike Wilson: Value Stocks Have Their Moment

Mike Wilson: Value Stocks Have Their Moment

On today’s podcast, Chief Investment Officer Mike Wilson dives into last week’s historic reversal between value and growth stocks. Can the value rally last?

16 Syys 20193min

Andrew Sheets: Is There a Downside to Cutting Interest Rates?

Andrew Sheets: Is There a Downside to Cutting Interest Rates?

On today’s podcast, Chief Cross-Asset Strategist Andrew Sheets asks the timely question, “If lower interest rates stimulate growth, why wouldn’t central banks lower them?”

13 Syys 20192min

Special Series: From Baby Boom to Youth Boom

Special Series: From Baby Boom to Youth Boom

Is America’s next heyday ahead? On this special episode, Chief U.S. Economist Ellen Zentner explains why America’s youth may be set to power U.S. GDP in the coming years.

10 Syys 20194min

Mike Wilson: Home on the Range Bound?

Mike Wilson: Home on the Range Bound?

On today's podcast, Investors may be feeling some déjà vu as upbeat news on trade drives a new rally. Could markets break out this time or is another correction ahead? Analysis from Chief Investment O...

9 Syys 20192min

Andrew Sheets: What Happens When the Price Isn’t Right?

Andrew Sheets: What Happens When the Price Isn’t Right?

On today’s podcast, Chief Cross-Asset Strategist Andrew Sheets says as global growth weakens, investors tend to focus on the most desirable companies (which are already priced to perfection). So what ...

6 Syys 20193min

Michael Zezas: Pondering a World of Unresolved Trade Issues

Michael Zezas: Pondering a World of Unresolved Trade Issues

On today’s podcast, Head of U.S. Public Policy Michael Zezas takes a moment to consider the long-term effects regardless of whether or not the U.S. and China are unable to negotiate a meaningful trade...

4 Syys 20191min

Suosittua kategoriassa Liike-elämä ja talous

sijotuskasti
mimmit-sijoittaa
psykopodiaa-podcast
rss-rahapodi
herrasmieshakkerit
rss-rahamania
ostan-asuntoja-podcast
rss-sami-miettinen-neuvottelija
rahapuhetta
hyva-paha-johtaminen
rss-lahtijat
yrittaja
juristipodi
rss-doulapodi
rss-sisalto-kuntoon
rss-seuraava-potilas
rss-paasipodi
seminuoret-sijoittajat
rss-uskalla-yrittaa
rss-inderes-femme