Cleaning Up: Leadership in an Age of Climate Change14 Touko 2025

Can You Run a Grid Entirely On Renewables? Ep208: Anders Lindberg

Can You Run A Grid Without Fossil Fuels?

"Yes," says Anders Lindberg, President of Energy and Executive VP at Wärtsilä, on this week's episode of Cleaning Up. It'll just cost €65 trillion extra by 2050.

Anders' team at Wärtsilä has recently published its Crossroads to Net Zero report, which argues that keeping a little bit of flexible generation on the grid will save huge amounts of money as the globe strives for net zero, while also speeding up the transition to renewables. The argument centres on what to do with the last few percent of power supply, and what forms of generation need to be built to ensure consistent electricity supply and prevent black or brown outs.

Perhaps unsurprisingly for a gas engine manufacturer, Wärtsilä's report makes the case that gas should provide the last few percentage points of electricity generation. Michael Liebreich puts that claim to the test.

Discover more:

Wärtsilä's Crossroads to Net Zero report: https://www.wartsila.com/energy/towards-100-renewable-energy/choosing-the-optimal-pathway-for-energy-transition
Can Germany’s Gas Giant Go Green? Ep206: Michael Lewis - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DOD-f6uSPgc
Q&A: What we do – and do not – know about the blackout in Spain and Portugal — https://www.carbonbrief.org/qa-what-we-do-and-do-not-know-about-the-blackout-in-spain-and-portugal/
ENTSO-E expert panel initiates the investigation into the causes of Iberian blackout: https://www.entsoe.eu/news/2025/05/09/entso-e-expert-panel-initiates-the-investigation-into-the-causes-of-iberian-blackout

Leadership Circle:

Cleaning Up is supported by the Leadership Circle, and its founding members: Actis, Alcazar Energy, Davidson Kempner, EcoPragma Capital, EDP of Portugal, Eurelectric, the Gilardini Foundation, KKR, National Grid, Octopus Energy, Quadrature Climate Foundation, SDCL and Wärtsilä. For more information on the Leadership Circle, please visit https://www.cleaningup.live.

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⁠Is Africa Poised To Be A Clean Energy Powerhouse? Ep241: Clemens Calice

Why does Africa, home to 18% of the world’s population, receive just 1% of global energy investment? What’s stopping money from flowing to the continent when it has such good wind and solar potential?...

21 Tammi 58min

Climate Action vs Cost of Living: Can We Do Both? | Ep240: Katie White, UK Climate Minister

How do we build a clean energy system while bringing UK bills down? Can the UK’s landmark Climate Change Act stand up to a fractured climate politics? And does increasing global instability make home-...

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Trump, Venezuela & The Future Of Clean Energy | Ep239: Michael Liebreich & Bryony Worthington

Is the link between oil and geopolitics starting to diminish? Has climate consensus fractured just as clean energy hits escape velocity? And are batteries, not barrels, becoming the true source of pow...

7 Tammi 1h 8min

Cleaning Up Redux: Canada's Controversial Queen of Green — Tzeporah Berman

This episode was originally broadcast in June 2023, watch the episode on YouTube here. Cleaning Up will return with new episodes January 7th, 2026. Tzeporah Berman has been leading environmental campa...

31 Joulu 20251h 5min

Cleaning Up Redux: Hot Rocks in a Box — Anand Gopal

This episode was originally broadcast in June 2024.As the world transitions away from fossil fuels, one of the biggest challenges is decarbonizing industrial processes that require consistent, reliabl...

24 Joulu 202557min

⁠Stop Worrying About Clean Power, Start Electrifying Everything | Ep238: Lord Adair Turner

What will be the long-term impact of the US’s great leap backward on clean energy? How will the emergency of China as an electrotech giant reshape geopolitics? And what will be the defining trends and...

17 Joulu 20251h 10min

Honey, I Shrunk the Oil And Gas Sector | Ep237: Lord John Browne

What happens when clean energy starts to outgrow fossil fuels at scale? Is it right to call China an electrostate? And how long will we be reliant on hydrocarbons?This week on Cleaning Up, host Michae...

10 Joulu 202551min

Why Does The UK Pay So Much For Cheap-To-Produce Gas? | Ep236: Seb Kennedy

What happens when a nation’s energy security rests on volatile global gas markets? Why does the UK pay market prices for some of the world’s cheapest-to-produce gas? And is now the moment to rethink d...

3 Joulu 20251h 8min