Debate: How to Value an L1 Token With Dan Smith and Jonah Weinstein
Empire2 Kesä 2025

Debate: How to Value an L1 Token With Dan Smith and Jonah Weinstein

Gm and Happy Monday! This week, Dan Smith, a Lead Blockworks Researcher and Jonah Weinstein, a Portfolio Manager of SkyCatcher, join Jason to dive into the timely conversation about which metric is better/best to evaluate L1 tokens – REV or RSOV? Start your day with the Empire newsletter by Katherine Ross: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/empire?utm_source=podcasts Follow Santi: https://x.com/santiagoroel Follow Jason: https://x.com/JasonYanowitz Follow Empire: https://twitter.com/theempirepod Join the Empire Telegram: https://t.me/+CaCYvTOB4Eg1OWJh -- Grab your tickets to Permissionless IV. Use code EMPIRE10 for 10% off: https://blockworks.co/event/permissionless-iv -- SKALE is the next evolution in Layer 1 blockchains with a gas-free invisible user experience, instant finality, high speed, and robust security. SKALE is built different as it allows for limitless scalability and has already saved its 50 Million users over $11 Billion in gas fees. SKALE is high-performance and cost-effective, making it ideal for compute-intensive applications like AI, gaming, and consumer-facing dApps. Learn more at https://skale.space and stay up to date with the gas-free invisible blockchain on X at @skalenetwork -- Marinade Labs develops staking technologies that strengthen Solana.In 2021, our protocol was the first to bring liquid staking to the network; today, our sophisticated, high-performance staking delegation platform brings billions in liquidity and security to the SOL market. We have solutions for both DeFi and TradFi, including liquid and native staking, as well as direct enterprise integrations. Our best-in-market features include user downside protection (through protected staking rewards) and optimized delegation (via our automated auction marketplace). Cryptoasset investors worldwide, from individual traders to global institutions, use Marinade to earn rewards on their SOL treasuries and holdings. We are headquartered in New York, with offices in the European Union, including Prague. To learn more about Marinade, visit https://www.marinade.finance. -- Crypto never sleeps. So we built an Al analyst that never blinks. Meet Focal by FalconX: a GenAI insights engine built for institutional crypto. Already used by 80+ funds managing $10B+ in AUM. - Screen, chart, and analyze 1300+ tokens - Summarize market-moving news instantly - Integrates data from CoinGecko, Kaito, Token Terminal, Tokenomist, The Tie Get started today: https://askfocal.com -- Ledn is the leading platform for Bitcoin-backed loans, offering a secure and transparent way to unlock liquidity without selling your Bitcoin. Ledn has issued over $9 billion in loans since 2018 and has never lost a single satoshi of client assets, earning a reputation as the name you can trust in the crypto space.Visit https://www.ledn.io to learn more. -- Chapters: 00:00 - Intro 02:31 - Why Do We Need Better Valuation Frameworks? 05:00 - What’s Wrong With The Metrics Today? 08:07 - What’s The Proper Reference Point To Understand Value? 09:33 - Are L1 Tokens Money? 11:10 - Ads (Skale Marinade) 12:48 - Is A L1 Token A Commodity Or Company? 19:32 - Why RSOV Valuation Is So Important 23:48 - Ads (Skale Marinade) 29:07 - Valuation Litmus Test 31:38 - RSOV & Capital Inflows 37:53 - What’s REV? 42:58 - RSOV’s Valuation Mechanism 44:43 - Where RSOV and REV differ 47:27 - If Native Assets 10X, Do The Hotspots? 49:05 - Ads (Falcon x, LEDN) 50:52 - Monetary L1 Premium Factor In? 55:36 - RSOV vs REV Valuation Trends Over Time 01:00:49 - How Does Staking / DeFi Deposits Impact Valuation? 01:02:47 - PE Values In RSOV 01:05:25 - Audience Question From Telegram — Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.

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Lessons From Selling Hundreds of NFTs | Jack Butcher

Lessons From Selling Hundreds of NFTs | Jack Butcher

In this episode of Empire, Jason is joined by Jack Butcher a designer, entrepreneur and the Founder of Visualize Value. After spending 10 years working in Fortune 100 advertising in NYC as a creative director for multi-billion dollar brands, Jack took the decision to start Visualize Value, allowing him to focus on highly-specialized consulting, and a product business that scales infinitely. Jason & Jack discuss how to monetize personal brands, the transition from web 2.0 to web 3.0, the advantages of NFTs and how large brands should be thinking about NFTs. -- Avalanche: Thank you to Avalanche for sponsoring Empire. Avalanche is one of the best and fastest growing smart-contract platforms in the industry. Learn more about them at https://www.avax.network/ -- ParaSwap: If you want to make a swap at the best price across the DeFi market, check out paraswap.io. ParaSwap’s state-of-the-art algorithm beats the market price across all major DEXs and brings you the most optimized swaps with the best prices, and lowest slippage. Find out more about them at https://www.paraswap.io/ -- Empire is brought to you by Blockworks, a financial media brand delivering breaking news and premium insights about digital assets to millions of investors. For more content like this, subscribe to Blockworks' free daily newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/ Follow me on Twitter @JasonYanowitz and let me know what you thought of the show!

26 Marras 202135min

How inflation is a human rights issue | Nevin Freeman, CEO Reserve

How inflation is a human rights issue | Nevin Freeman, CEO Reserve

In this episode of Empire, Jason is joined by Nevin Freeman, Co-Founder & CEO of Reserve. Nevin set out to create Reserve as a way to protect individuals from currency destroying hyperinflation, providing access to a stable currency and financial services. Jason & Nevin discuss how having access to a stable currency is a human right, challenges of creating a stablecoin, hyperinflation, developments in the cryptocurrency industry & much more. -- Avalanche: Thank you to Avalanche for sponsoring Empire. Avalanche is one of the best and fastest growing smart-contract platforms in the industry. Learn more about them at https://www.avax.network/ -- ParaSwap: If you want to make a swap at the best price across the DeFi market, check out paraswap.io. ParaSwap’s state-of-the-art algorithm beats the market price across all major DEXs and brings you the most optimized swaps with the best prices, and lowest slippage. Find out more about them at https://www.paraswap.io/

11 Marras 202150min

Bitcoin ETF: Everything You Need to Know | Leah Wald & Eric Balchunas

Bitcoin ETF: Everything You Need to Know | Leah Wald & Eric Balchunas

In this episode of Empire, Jason & Casey are joined by Senior Bloomberg ETF Analyst Eric Balchunas & CEO of Valkyrie Funds Leah Wald. With the recent approval of the Valkyrie Bitcoin futures ETF, we invited Eric & Leah onto the show to discuss everything you need to know from how an ETF works, the benefits of an ETF for institutional investors, the SEC's Bitcoin ETF regulation framework & if the SEC will approve a spot Bitcoin ETF. -- Avalanche: Thank you to Avalanche for sponsoring Empire. Avalanche is one of the best and fastest growing smart-contract platforms in the industry. Learn more about them at https://www.avax.network/ -- ParaSwap: If you want to make a swap at the best price across the DeFi market, check out paraswap.io. ParaSwap’s state-of-the-art algorithm beats the market price across all major DEXs and brings you the most optimized swaps with the best prices, and lowest slippage. Find out more about them at https://www.paraswap.io/

4 Marras 202153min

Stani Kulechov explains how trillion will flow into DeFi | Stani Kulechov & Santiago Santos

Stani Kulechov explains how trillion will flow into DeFi | Stani Kulechov & Santiago Santos

In this episode of Empire, Jason is joined by Aave founder/CEO Stani Kulechov & technology investor Santiago R Santos. Sitting at the forefront of the fast evolving DeFi ecosystem, we invited Stani & Santiago on to Empire to share their thoughts on the exponential growth and assess whether DeFi has hit escape velocity. This conversation was fascinating and covered a range of topics including how DeFi managed to attract $100 Billion of total value during the 2020 DeFi summer, when $1 trillion of value will be locked in DeFi, how social media could be decentralised in the web 3.0 transition, NFT's, Stani & Santiago's outlook for the end of year bull market & so much more. - Avalanche: Thank you to Avalanche for sponsoring Empire. Avalanche is one of the best and fastest growing smart-contract platforms in the industry. Learn more about them at https://www.avax.network/ -- ParaSwap: If you want to make a swap at the best price across the DeFi market, check out paraswap.io. ParaSwap’s state-of-the-art algorithm beats the market price across all major DEXs and brings you the most optimized swaps with the best prices, and lowest slippage. Find out more about them at https://www.paraswap.io/

28 Loka 202153min

DAOs are crypto's most important innovation | Cooper Turley

DAOs are crypto's most important innovation | Cooper Turley

In this episode of Empire Jason & Mike are joined by Cooper Turley an operator, advisor & thought leader in the fast evolving DAO ecosystem. Cooper has worked on projects such as Friends with Benefits, Forefront, Seed Club & many more. In this episode, Cooper shares his thoughts on the transition from web 2.0 to web 3.0, four steps to creating a DAO, the creator economy, how to invest in the ecosystem & the outlook for the rest of 2021. -- Avalanche: Thank you to Avalanche for sponsoring Empire. Avalanche is one of the best and fastest growing smart-contract platforms in the industry. Learn more about them at https://www.avax.network/ -- ParaSwap: If you want to make a swap at the best price across the DeFi market, check out paraswap.io. ParaSwap’s state-of-the-art algorithm beats the market price across all major DEXs and brings you the most optimized swaps with the best prices, and lowest slippage. Find out more about them at https://www.paraswap.io/ --- Empire is brought to you by Blockworks, a financial media brand delivering breaking news and premium insights about digital assets to millions of investors. For more content like Empire, visit http://blockworks.co/podcasts Follow me on Twitter @JasonYanowitz and let me know what you thought of the show!

21 Loka 202142min

Solana founder unravels the Layer 1 Wars | Anatoly Yakovenko

Solana founder unravels the Layer 1 Wars | Anatoly Yakovenko

In this episode of Empire, Jason is joined by Blockworks co-founder Mike Ippolito & Solana co-founder Anatoly Yakovenko. Anatoly has spent over 20 years as an engineer working for companies such as Qualcomm & Dropbox whilst contributing to open source software development. After the recent success of Solana, we invited Anatoly onto Empire to discuss how Solana was founded, the current layer 1 wars, the growth of crypto vs the internet, DeFi, DEXs vs CEXs and so much more! -- Avalanche: Thank you to Avalanche for sponsoring Empire. Avalanche is one of the best and fastest growing smart-contract platforms in the industry. Learn more about them at https://www.avax.network/ -- ParaSwap: If you want to make a swap at the best price across the DeFi market, check out paraswap.io. ParaSwap’s state-of-the-art algorithm beats the market price across all major DEXs and brings you the most optimized swaps with the best prices, and lowest slippage. --- Empire is brought to you by Blockworks, a financial media brand delivering breaking news and premium insights about digital assets to millions of investors. For more content like Empire, visit http://blockworks.co/podcasts Follow me on Twitter @JasonYanowitz and let me know what you thought of the show!

14 Loka 202148min

Why You Should Only Own Bitcoin | Alyse Killeen

Why You Should Only Own Bitcoin | Alyse Killeen

In this episode of Empire Jason is joined by Alyse Killeen, Managing Partner of StillMark - the Bitcoin VC Firm investing in the frontier of Bitcoin innovation. As well as founding StillMark in 2019, Alyse sits on the board of directors at Blockstream as an Independent Director. Alyse shares her thoughts on the most exciting companies being founded in the industry, the future of earning Bitcoin vs investing in Bitcoin, Bitcoin adoption outpacing the internet & bringing Bitcoin to the next Billion! -- Thank you to Avalanche for sponsoring Empire. Avalanche is one of the best and fastest growing smart-contract platforms in the industry. Learn more about them at https://www.avax.network/ -- Empire is brought to you by Blockworks, a financial media brand delivering breaking news and premium insights about digital assets to millions of investors. For more content like Empire, subscribe to Blockworks' free daily newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/

30 Syys 202138min

DeFi, Layer 1 wars & the Supercycle | Predictions with Qiao Wang

DeFi, Layer 1 wars & the Supercycle | Predictions with Qiao Wang

In this episode of Empire, Jason is joined by Qiao Wang, contributor to DeFi Alliance. As a former quant trader & now busy funding projects in the DeFi & Web 3.0 ecosystem, Qiao has a unique understanding of crypto's past and what new innovations lay in store for the crypto economy at large. While looking at the timeline of DeFi, they touch on the Layer 1 wars, DAOs, the 10 year supercycle and more. -- Thank you to Avalanche for sponsoring Empire. Avalanche is one of the best and fastest growing smart-contract platforms in the industry. Learn more about them at https://www.avax.network/ --- Empire is brought to you by Blockworks, a financial media brand delivering breaking news and premium insights about digital assets to millions of investors. For more content like Empire, subscribe to Blockworks' free daily newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/

23 Syys 202143min

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