Debate: How to Value an L1 Token With Dan Smith and Jonah Weinstein
Empire2 Kesä 2025

Debate: How to Value an L1 Token With Dan Smith and Jonah Weinstein

Gm and Happy Monday! This week, Dan Smith, a Lead Blockworks Researcher and Jonah Weinstein, a Portfolio Manager of SkyCatcher, join Jason to dive into the timely conversation about which metric is better/best to evaluate L1 tokens – REV or RSOV? Start your day with the Empire newsletter by Katherine Ross: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/empire?utm_source=podcasts Follow Santi: https://x.com/santiagoroel Follow Jason: https://x.com/JasonYanowitz Follow Empire: https://twitter.com/theempirepod Join the Empire Telegram: https://t.me/+CaCYvTOB4Eg1OWJh -- Grab your tickets to Permissionless IV. Use code EMPIRE10 for 10% off: https://blockworks.co/event/permissionless-iv -- SKALE is the next evolution in Layer 1 blockchains with a gas-free invisible user experience, instant finality, high speed, and robust security. SKALE is built different as it allows for limitless scalability and has already saved its 50 Million users over $11 Billion in gas fees. SKALE is high-performance and cost-effective, making it ideal for compute-intensive applications like AI, gaming, and consumer-facing dApps. Learn more at https://skale.space and stay up to date with the gas-free invisible blockchain on X at @skalenetwork -- Marinade Labs develops staking technologies that strengthen Solana.In 2021, our protocol was the first to bring liquid staking to the network; today, our sophisticated, high-performance staking delegation platform brings billions in liquidity and security to the SOL market. We have solutions for both DeFi and TradFi, including liquid and native staking, as well as direct enterprise integrations. Our best-in-market features include user downside protection (through protected staking rewards) and optimized delegation (via our automated auction marketplace). Cryptoasset investors worldwide, from individual traders to global institutions, use Marinade to earn rewards on their SOL treasuries and holdings. We are headquartered in New York, with offices in the European Union, including Prague. To learn more about Marinade, visit https://www.marinade.finance. -- Crypto never sleeps. So we built an Al analyst that never blinks. Meet Focal by FalconX: a GenAI insights engine built for institutional crypto. Already used by 80+ funds managing $10B+ in AUM. - Screen, chart, and analyze 1300+ tokens - Summarize market-moving news instantly - Integrates data from CoinGecko, Kaito, Token Terminal, Tokenomist, The Tie Get started today: https://askfocal.com -- Ledn is the leading platform for Bitcoin-backed loans, offering a secure and transparent way to unlock liquidity without selling your Bitcoin. Ledn has issued over $9 billion in loans since 2018 and has never lost a single satoshi of client assets, earning a reputation as the name you can trust in the crypto space.Visit https://www.ledn.io to learn more. -- Chapters: 00:00 - Intro 02:31 - Why Do We Need Better Valuation Frameworks? 05:00 - What’s Wrong With The Metrics Today? 08:07 - What’s The Proper Reference Point To Understand Value? 09:33 - Are L1 Tokens Money? 11:10 - Ads (Skale Marinade) 12:48 - Is A L1 Token A Commodity Or Company? 19:32 - Why RSOV Valuation Is So Important 23:48 - Ads (Skale Marinade) 29:07 - Valuation Litmus Test 31:38 - RSOV & Capital Inflows 37:53 - What’s REV? 42:58 - RSOV’s Valuation Mechanism 44:43 - Where RSOV and REV differ 47:27 - If Native Assets 10X, Do The Hotspots? 49:05 - Ads (Falcon x, LEDN) 50:52 - Monetary L1 Premium Factor In? 55:36 - RSOV vs REV Valuation Trends Over Time 01:00:49 - How Does Staking / DeFi Deposits Impact Valuation? 01:02:47 - PE Values In RSOV 01:05:25 - Audience Question From Telegram — Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.

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Mike Belshe, from $20M Bitcoin under a couch to $20B+ in custody: the BitGo story

Mike Belshe, from $20M Bitcoin under a couch to $20B+ in custody: the BitGo story

My guest today is Mike Belshe, Founder and CEO of BitGo. But before that, he used what he learned at Netscape to help Google develop Chrome. Like many of us, Belshe stored his first Bitcoin on an old laptop. But after his investor friends started sending their digital assets his way, that "old laptop" was suddenly worth millions. Here's how his quest to secure those assets eventually became BitGo. ––– Empire is brought to you by Blockworks, a financial media brand delivering breaking news and premium insights about digital assets to millions of investors. For more content like Empire, visit http://blockworks.co/podcasts. Follow me on Twitter @JasonYanowitz and let me know what you thought of the show!

25 Maalis 202154min

Flori Marquez on founding BlockFi: the fastest-growing Fintech in the world

Flori Marquez on founding BlockFi: the fastest-growing Fintech in the world

My guest today is Flori Marquez, Co-Founder of BlockFi. On this episode of Empire, we discuss BlockFi's staggering valuation, what it's like to lead a $3 billion Fintech company, and why crypto is so valuable in countries without fiat stability. ––– Empire is brought to you by Blockworks, a financial media brand delivering breaking news and premium insights about digital assets to millions of investors. For more content like Empire, visit http://blockworks.co/podcasts. Follow me on Twitter @JasonYanowitz and let me know what you thought of the show!

18 Maalis 202152min

Joe Lubin, Ethereum Co-Founder, on why assets are moving from Wall Street to Crypto

Joe Lubin, Ethereum Co-Founder, on why assets are moving from Wall Street to Crypto

My guest today is Joe Lubin, Co-Founder of Ethereum and CEO and Founder of ConsenSys. On this episode of Empire, we discuss where Bitcoin falls short, Joe leaving Wall Street for Crypto, founding Ethereum and ConsenSys, why forks can be good for progress, and Joe's real motivators. ––– Empire is brought to you by Blockworks, a financial media brand delivering breaking news and premium insights about digital assets to millions of investors. For more content like Empire, visit http://blockworks.co/podcasts. Follow me on Twitter @JasonYanowitz and let me know what you thought of the show!

11 Maalis 202137min

Muneeb Ali, on why the next internet will be built on Bitcoin

Muneeb Ali, on why the next internet will be built on Bitcoin

My guest today is Muneeb Ali, Co-Founder of the Stacks Project (formerly Blockstack) and CEO of Hiro. On this episode of Empire, we talk about Muneeb’s upbringing in Pakistan and the sacrifices his family made to get him his first computer, military dictatorship vs democratic rule, how he lied about a grant to get a job in Sweden and then ran out of money, and why it’s better to build on Bitcoin than create a new chain. ––– Empire is brought to you by Blockworks, a financial media brand delivering breaking news and premium insights about digital assets to millions of investors. For more content like Empire, visit http://blockworks.co/podcasts. Follow me on Twitter @JasonYanowitz and let me know what you thought of the show!

4 Maalis 202150min

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