237: Maker Tips for Growth & Cleanliness
Cider Chat2 Syys 2020

237: Maker Tips for Growth & Cleanliness

Stormalong Cider scaled up their operations in 2017 when they moved from their cozy barn centered cidery to a shared production facility in Leominster in Massachusetts. We begin with considerations for growth of a cidery and then begin a dive deep into the production side of making cider with a specific focus on cleaning.

Featuring Stormalong owner, Shannon Edgar, Head Cidermaker Ben Roberts-Sano and Operation Manager Bright McConnell.

[

Shannon, Bright, and Ben of Stormalong

What is sanitary/cleanable what is clean in place?

Materials that touch cider must be made with a non porus surface which is resistant to scratching and chemical degradation

These include stainless steel, glass, HDPE and PP plastics, silicone and other food grade rubber, teflon, specially prepared concrete or enamel coated steel vessels

What materials to avoid?

Metals like aluminum, brass, mild steel, copper, bronze, or chrome plated parts are NOT rated for food contact, and should not be used on any part of your system that touches product or co2. Copper is toxic and can easily absorb into cider on contact. Aluminum will corrode in caustic, and permanently stain steel parts in the same cleaning bucket.

Chrome parts will always chip.

Brass can leach lead (if not lead free) and copper into cider or common cleaning buckets

What is sanitary?

in order for a cleanable container or pipe part to be sanitary, it must have a smooth geometry, with no hidden or "dead spots" and must be easily disassembled for cleaning. a ball valve cannot be sanitary, because some of the surfaces of the ball are always hidden from the chemical action. threaded parts cannot be considered. pipes or vessels that contain areas that do not contact cleaning chemicals, or areas that cannot drain completely, cannot be considered sanitary, and cannot be properly cleaned without additional measures

Vessels like wooden barrels rely on temperature (steam/190 water) or food safe chemicals, like phosphate, ozone, citric acid, or sulfites and microbial communities in order to stay "clean" or at least repeatably infected.

Cleaning theory

The 4 factors of cleaning dirty vessels

  • Time
  • Temperature
  • Mechanical action (how hard your spray, shake or scrub)
  • Chemical concentration

In order to clean different materials, and different soils. For instance, a food grade plastic that is temperature sensitive and too soft to scrub, you could use 50% more chemicals and a significantly longer soak time to achieve the same result

Water won't get quite as hot as you like?

  • Turn the pump speed up, and run the clean for longer, perhaps add more chemicals.
  • Even stainless steel can be worn by heavy cleaning over time, so make sure to clean enough. BUT there is such a thing as too much of a good thing!

Biofilms

  • Bioflims can form when parts get dirty for too long. Normal cleaning procedures may not be effective, and the film may stay active for some time
  • SO YOU MUST CLEAN DIRTY THINGS BEFORE THEY DRY (same day)
  • A part with any visible soils cannot be considered clean, a part that is not clean cannot be sanitized, and any part that touches the floor or any other visibly unclean surface, must not pass go, and return directly to the dirty parts bucket

Mentions in this Chat

Contact info for Stormalong

Help Support Cider Chat Please donate today. Help keep the chat thriving!

Find this episode and all episodes at the page for Cider Chat's podcasts.

Jaksot(499)

488: Vintage Cider Label Lawsuit

488: Vintage Cider Label Lawsuit

A pending lawsuit spearheaded by Ron Extract of Garden Path Fermentation could change how cider makers label harvest year and "vintage" on cider over 7% ABV. Ron explains why the current TTB rules blo...

28 Tammi 43min

487: Further Tales of Chocolate Pears

487: Further Tales of Chocolate Pears

In This Episode, We Cover Why Sorbus domestica is often nicknamed "the chocolate pear" (and why that name actually helps people get it) What bletting means, and why sorbs can be delicious before they...

21 Tammi 1h 4min

486: Apples, Cider, and Community | 450 Years of Cider Culture in Chile

486: Apples, Cider, and Community | 450 Years of Cider Culture in Chile

Recorded live at CiderCon, this episode brings listeners into a rare, in-depth conversation about Chile's living cider tradition—one shaped by more than 450 years of apple fermentation, deep regional ...

14 Tammi 1h

485: Cider as a Catalyst for Chile's Edible Forest

485: Cider as a Catalyst for Chile's Edible Forest

Carlos Flores is an architect, landscape designer, and co-founder of Punta de Fierro Fine Cider. At the 2025 CiderCon in Chicago he presented Carlos presented "Developing An Experimental Edible Forest...

7 Tammi 57min

484: Rethinking American Cider History with Patrick McCauley

484: Rethinking American Cider History with Patrick McCauley

Meet Patrick McCauley, a Michigan-based cider maker and researcher, who is questioning some of the most common myths about American cider history. What Patrick uncovers is a far more regional, farm-ba...

31 Joulu 20251h 9min

483: The Talking Pomme's Grand Winter Party

483: The Talking Pomme's Grand Winter Party

Enjoy this annual winter tale from Cider Chat Central! In this special holiday episode, Cider Chat invites you to step into the enchanting world of the Talking Pommes. The Talking Pommes Grand Winter ...

24 Joulu 202514min

482: FLX Cider & Cheese Pairing with Cheesemonger Rachel Freier

482: FLX Cider & Cheese Pairing with Cheesemonger Rachel Freier

At the New York Cider Fest in November, there were 2 Cider and Cheese sessions. Cider Chat Emcee Ria Windcaller attended one featuring ciders from 4 different makers. This cider and cheese pairing was...

17 Joulu 202541min

481: Totally Cider Tour: A Merry Visit to Tom Oliver's

481: Totally Cider Tour: A Merry Visit to Tom Oliver's

Tom Oliver is delightfully talented, mischievously witty, and not only a renowned cider maker but also a top-notch perry maker. He may say, "If you're going to make perry and work with pears, you've a...

10 Joulu 202544min

Suosittua kategoriassa Yhteiskunta

olipa-kerran-otsikko
i-dont-like-mondays
kaksi-aitia
siita-on-vaikea-puhua
gogin-ja-janin-maailmanhistoria
uutiscast
joku-tietaa-jotain-2
poks
antin-palautepalvelu
kolme-kaannekohtaa
mamma-mia
aikalisa
sita
yopuolen-tarinoita-2
rss-murhan-anatomia
meidan-pitais-puhua
rss-nikotellen
lahko
rss-palmujen-varjoissa
loukussa