The Finland myth, East Asia’s rise, and what makes education systems work with Montserrat Gomendio (Ep 68)

In this episode, Anna is joined by Dr. Montserrat (Montse) Gomendio, a former Secretary of State for Education in Spain. Montse is also a former Deputy Director of Education for the OECD, the international organization that administers the PISA test. Drawing on global data, including from PISA, Montse explains why some education systems consistently perform well while others struggle to improve.

Montse discusses the three key drivers of effective education systems: teacher quality, a knowledge-rich curriculum, and strong assessments aligned with that curriculum. Anna and Montse discuss what large-scale international assessments like PISA can (and can’t) tell us. The conversation also explores why education reform is so difficult to implement, what high-performing systems right like those in East Asia and Estonia get right, and whether Finland’s reputation as a model system is supported by evidence.

This is a fascinating conversation that will appeal to educators, policymakers, and anyone interested in what actually drives improvement in education systems.

This episode is also available in video at www.youtube.com/@chalktalk-stokke

MONTSERRAT GOMENDIO’S BOOK (OPEN ACCESS) Dire Straits-Education Reforms: Ideology, Vested Interests and Evidence: https://www.openbookpublishers.com/books/10.11647/obp.0332

SHORT COURSE La Trobe Short Course: Evidence-informed Mathematics Teaching – An Introduction https://shortcourses.latrobe.edu.au/evidence-informed-mathematics-teaching

ResearchED Calgary ResearchED Calgary registration: https://www.eventbrite.ca/e/researched-calgary-tickets-1984343272144

TIMESTAMPS

[00:00:22] Introduction [00:04:55] The role of Deputy Director of Education at the OCED [00:06:21] What is the purpose of PISA? [00:07:29] How is PISA different from TIMSS or PIRLS? [00:12:54] What is an appropriate definition of equity? [00:15:06] Measures that improve educational equity [00:19:57] The perplexing narrative about Finland as a top performer [00:28:42] Why do East Asian countries perform so well? [00:33:00] The importance of content knowledge [00:36:06] Misleading recommendations from the OECD [00:37:16] After-school tutoring in East Asian countries [00:41:36] Why implementation in different countries can be difficult: Latin America [00:46:18] Reducing class size: popular and expensive, but ineffective [00:48:08] What makes an effective teacher? [00:52:01] A look at Estonia’s education system [00:54:14] Why is it so hard to implement reforms even when they are evidence-based? [01:02:23] Preventing the reversal of good education policies [01:06:31] What are the main components that make an effective education system?

RELEVANT PREVIOUS EPISODES

When a mathematician became education minister: Nuno Crato on transforming education https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-pxzyk-19b773f

Balanced literacy didn’t work—will balanced math? https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-usvqw-1962107

From decline to top rankings: How England transformed education with Nick Gibb https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-zps9p-18c1e97

Understanding math reform ideology with Tom Loveless https://www.podbean.com/ew/pb-7ih4c-15dbf9a

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT

https://www.annastokke.com/transcripts/ep-68-transcript

MUSIC

Intro & Outro: Funk Jazz Big Band - ColorFilmMusic

Website: www.annastokke.com

FB: Chalk & Talk

IG: @chalkandtalkpodcast Tiktok: @chalkandtalkpodcast

X: @rastokke

LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/anna-stokke-3a1b4c

Bluesky: @rastokke.bsky.social

Denne episoden er hentet fra en åpen RSS-feed og er ikke publisert av Podme. Den kan derfor inneholde annonser.

Episoder(77)

The Story Behind Mississippi’s Education Turnaround with Rachel Canter (Ep 76)

In this episode, Anna Stokke is joined by Rachel Canter, Director of Education Policy for the Reinventing America's Schools Project and author of the report Inside the Mississippi Marathon. They explo...

17 Jul 59min

How high expectations drive student achievement with Doug Lemov (Ep 75)

In this episode, Anna Stokke is joined by Doug Lemov, author of Teach Like a Champion and one of the most influential voices on effective teaching practice. They discuss educational equity and why str...

3 Jul 1h 5min

Mailbag II: Math standards, teacher content knowledge, and more with Jonathan Regino (Ep 74)

In this special two-part Chalk & Talk mailbag series, Anna Stokke is joined by Jonathan Regino, Pre-K–12 Supervisor of Math at Interboro School District, to answer questions submitted by listeners. In...

19 Jun 53min

Mailbag I: Choosing math resources and handling mixed classes with Jon Regino

In this special two-part Chalk & Talk mailbag episode, Anna Stokke is joined by Jonathan Regino, Pre-K–12 Supervisor of Math at Interboro School District, to answer questions submitted by listeners. T...

12 Jun 41min

Inside one of England’s top-performing non-selective schools with Robert Peal (Ep 72)

In this episode, Anna Stokke is joined by Robert Peal, joint head teacher of West London Free School, one of England’s highest-performing non-selective schools. Robert is also the author of Progressi...

29 Mai 1h 3min

Conviction vs. evidence: What’s driving math education’s worst policies with Thomas Briggs and David Shuck (Ep 71)

In this episode, Anna Stokke continues the conversation from the previous episode on what happens when requests for evidence are dismissed with the phrase “research shows.” She is joined by Thomas Bri...

15 Mai 1h 2min

What to do when “Research Shows” shuts you down: A guide for parents and teachers (Ep 70)

In this episode, Anna Stokke explores what to do when a math program or education initiative doesn’t seem to work, but you’re told "research shows" that it does. Drawing on her personal experience as ...

1 Mai 22min

We know more about teaching than ever—so why is change so slow? with Joanna Barbousas (Ep 69)

In this episode, Anna is joined by Professor Joanna Barbousas, Pro Vice-Chancellor of Education, Impact and Innovation, and Dean of the School of Education at La Trobe University in Australia. Early i...

17 Apr 1h 1min