Not Monsters. Not Madmen. Just Men.

Not Monsters. Not Madmen. Just Men.

What kind of person helps build a regime like the Third Reich? A monster? A madman? Or something far more unsettling?

Michael Shermer sits down with author Jack El-Hai to talk about the true story behind Nuremberg. At the center is Dr. Douglas Kelley, the American psychiatrist assigned to evaluate the top Nazi defendants after World War II, including Hermann Göring. What he found was not comforting: many of these men were intelligent, ambitious, psychologically functional, and disturbingly normal.

This conversation gets into the strange duel between Kelley and Göring, the psychological testing at Nuremberg, the limits of psychiatry, the difference between leaders and followers, and the question that still won't go away: how do power-hungry people rise and do evil, and why do so many others go along with them?

Jack El-Hai is an author and journalist whose work has appeared in The Atlantic, Smithsonian, GQ, Wired, Scientific American, and Discover. His books, including The Lobotomist, The Lost Brothers, and Face in the Mirror, have been translated into twenty languages. He lectures widely on writing and medical history. His book The Nazi and the Psychiatrist was recently adapted into the feature film Nuremberg, starring Russell Crowe and Rami Malek.

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Episoder(635)

Why Good People Disagree About Right and Wrong

Why Good People Disagree About Right and Wrong

Why do reasonable people disagree so strongly about right and wrong? And why are we so quick to assume that people on the other side of a moral or political issue are irrational, selfish, ignorant, or...

11 Aug 1h 57min

Are We Building a God? AI, Superintelligence, and the Coming Singularity

Are We Building a God? AI, Superintelligence, and the Coming Singularity

Robert Wright joins Michael Shermer to discuss his new book, The God Test: Artificial Intelligence and Our Coming Cosmic Reckoning, and why he thinks the AI revolution may be moving much faster than m...

5 Aug 1h 22min

Can You Trust Wikipedia? Co-Founder Larry Sanger on Wikipedia's Bias and Why He Was Banned

Can You Trust Wikipedia? Co-Founder Larry Sanger on Wikipedia's Bias and Why He Was Banned

Michael Shermer speaks with Wikipedia co-founder Larry Sanger shortly after Sanger was permanently banned from editing the site he helped create. Sanger tells the story of Wikipedia's founding, how it...

30 Jul 2h 3min

How to Think Clearly About a World in Crisis: Iran, China, Russia, and the West's Economic Pessimism

How to Think Clearly About a World in Crisis: Iran, China, Russia, and the West's Economic Pessimism

Michael Shermer speaks with political scientist Marlene Laruelle about Russia's turbulent transformation during the 1990s and the rise of Vladimir Putin, why the Kremlin so badly misjudged Ukraine, Ch...

18 Jul 1h 4min

The Truth About Sex Differences (Steve Stewart-Williams)

The Truth About Sex Differences (Steve Stewart-Williams)

How do men and women differ? Where do the differences come from? And how do they shape modern life? Drawing on a century of research and a billion years of evolution, Steve Stewart-Williams explains w...

11 Jul 55min

America at 250: What Did the Founders Get Right?

America at 250: What Did the Founders Get Right?

Michael Shermer makes the case that the U.S. Founding Fathers were not only steeped in Enlightenment values on which the Declaration of Independence was based, but they were also scientists searching ...

6 Jul 17min

When History Goes on Trial: Demjanjuk, Eichmann, and Justice After Atrocity

When History Goes on Trial: Demjanjuk, Eichmann, and Justice After Atrocity

John Demjanjuk lived for decades as a retired autoworker in suburban Cleveland. Then investigators accused him of being "Ivan the Terrible," one of the most notorious guards at Treblinka. What followe...

27 Jun 1h 32min

Why I Joined the Government UAP Science Advisory Council

Why I Joined the Government UAP Science Advisory Council

Michael Shermer has been appointed to the newly formed UAP Science Advisory Council, formed at the request of the White House and in coordination with the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO), ...

23 Jun 29min

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