53: Zhengdong Wang - Feeling the Wave

Zhengdong Wang (Website, X, LinkedIn) is an AI researcher based in London. He writes annual letters (inspired by Dan Wang), mainly about AI progress, and his 2025 letter blew me away and inspired me to meet him. In it, he describes his ‘compute theory of everything,’ and makes the case that it would be stranger if AI progress slowed down than if it continued. Put a different way, reading his letter helped me get closer to truly feeling the wave of AI progress. It took Zhengdong a long time to become “AGI-pilled,” despite years of feeling like he was late to AI and working as a research engineer for the last five. I talked to him about what it will take for the rest of us to see what he sees, and feel what he feels. We also discuss why AGI may be a hazier target than simply seeing AI progress as “the model does the eval,” and why recursive self-improvement may be both happening and less fantastical than it may seem. ZD makes the case that based on the rate of progress and scaling, skeptics will simply be proven right or wrong soon. We talk a bit through what narrative and political challenges the AI industry faces ahead of this transition. Then there are the implications of all of this—namely how AI progress accelerates the question of what we each value, how we will spend our time, and where we will find or create meaning. ZD takes a stab at some of those impossible questions and shares some other favorite miscellanea that is reflective of the range of his letters. I hope this conversation helps you feel the wave a bit yourself, and that you remember that, regardless of how much change lies ahead, we still get to make our meaning. We get to choose. Full transcript and all links: dialectic.fm/zhengdong --- Dialectic is presented by Notion. Notion is an AI-powered connected workspace where teams think together and create their best work. You can learn more at notion.com/dialectic. --- Timestamps: (0:00) Opening Highlights (1:16) Intro to Zhengdong & Thanks to Notion (4:33) Start: Why Research: "I Just Want to Know" (12:25) The Model Does the Eval: AGI as a Moving Target, RSI, and Laser Beams (33:17) The Compute Theory of Everything and Feeling the Wave (53:17) The Myths AI Needs, Competition vs. Power Concentration, and Whether Progress Is Inevitable (1:13:42) "Who Could Possibly Compete?": Post-AGI Meaning, Work, and Questing (1:29:28) Are You Having Fun? Vacations, Mattering, and How to Live (1:47:13) Annual Letters, Economist Obituaries, London, and Burke (2:06:33) Closing & Thanks to Notion