JSJ 341: Testing in JavaScript with Gil Tayar

JSJ 341: Testing in JavaScript with Gil Tayar

Panel:
  • Aimee Knight
  • AJ O’Neal
  • Charles Max Wood
Special Guest: Gil Tayar In this episode, the panel talks with Gil Tayar who is currently residing in Tel Aviv and is a software engineer. He is currently the Senior Architect at Applitools in Israel. The panel and the guest talk about the different types of tests and when/how one is to use a certain test in a particular situation. They also mention Node, React, Selenium, Puppeteer, and much more!Show Topics:0:00 – Advertisement: KENDO UI 0:35 – Chuck: Our panel is AJ, Aimee, myself – and our special guest is Gil Tayar. Tell us why you are famous!1:13 – Gil talks about where he resides and his background. 2:27 – Chuck: What is the landscape like now with testing and testing tools now?2:39 – Guest: There is a huge renaissance with the JavaScript community. Testing has moved forward in the frontend and backend. Today we have lots of testing tools. We can do frontend testing that wasn’t possible 5 years ago. The major change was React.The guest talks about Node, React, tools, and more!4:17 – Aimee: I advocate for tests and testing. There is a grey area though...how do you treat that? If you have to get something into production, but it’s not THE thing to get into production, does that fall into product or...what?5:02 – Guest: We decided to test everything in the beginning. We actually cam through and did that and since then I don’t think I can use the right code without testing. There are a lot of different situations, though, to consider.The guest gives hypothetical situations that people could face. 6:27 – Aimee.6:32 – Guest: The horror to changing code without tests, I don’t know, I haven’t done that for a while. You write with fear in your heart. Your design is driven by fear, and not what you think is right. In the beginning don’t write those tests, but...7:22 – Aimee: I totally agree and I could go on and on and on.7:42 – Panel: I want to do tests when I know they will create value. I don’t want to do it b/c it’s a mundane thing. Secondly, I find that some times I am in a situation where I cannot write the test b/c I would have to know the business logic is correct. I am in this discovery mode of what is the business logic? I am not just building your app.I guess I just need advice in this area, I guess.8:55 – Guest gives advice to panelist’s question. He mentions how there are two schools of thought.10:20 – Guest: Don’t mock too much.10:54 – Panel: Are unit tests the easiest? I just reach for unit testing b/c it helps me code faster. But 90% of my code is NOT that.11:18 – Guest: Exactly! Most of our test is glue – gluing together a bunch of different stuff! Those are best tested as a medium-sized integration suite.12:39 – Panel: That seems like a lot of work, though! I loathe the database stuff b/c they don’t map cleanly. I hate this database stuff.13:06 – Guest: I agree, but don’t knock the database, but knock the level above the database.13:49 – Guest: Yes, it takes time! Building the script and the testing tools, but when you have it then adding to it is zero time. Once you are in the air it’s smooth sailing.14:17 – Panel: I guess I can see that. I like to do the dumb-way the first time. I am not clear on the transition.14:47 – Guest: Write the code, and then write the tests.The guest gives a hypothetical situation on how/when to test in a certain situation. 16:25 – Panel: Can you talk about that more, please?16:50 – Guest: Don’t have the same unit – do browser and business logic stuff separated. The real business logic stuff needs to be above that level. First principle is separation of concerns.18:04 – Panel talks about dependency interjection and asks a question. 18:27 – Guest: What I am talking about very, very light inter-dependency interjection.19:19 – Panel: You have a main function and you are doing requires in the main function. You are passing the pieces of that into the components that need it.19:44 – Guest: I only do it when it’s necessary; it’s not a religion for me. I do it only for those layers that I know will need to be mocked; like database layers, etc.20:09 – Panel.20:19 – Guest: It’s taken me 80 years to figure out, but I have made plenty of mistakes a long the way. A test should run for 2-5 minutes max for package.20:53 – Panel: What if you have a really messy legacy system? How do you recommend going into that? Do you write tests for things that you think needs to get tested?21:39 – Guest answers the question and mentions Selenium! 24:27 – Panel: I like that approach.24:35 – Chuck: When you say integration test what do you mean?24:44 – Guest: Integration tests aren’t usually talked about. For most people it’s tests that test the database level against the database. For me, the integration tests are taking a set of classes as they are in the application and testing them together w/o the...so they can run in millisecond time.26:54 – Advertisement – Sentry.io 27:52 – Chuck: How much do the tools matter?28:01 – Guest: The revolutions matter. Whether you use Jasmine or Mocha or whatever I don’t think it matters. The tests matter not the tools.28:39 – Aimee: Yes and no. I think some tools are outdated.28:50 – Guest: I got a lot of flack about my blog where I talk about Cypress versus Selenium. I will never use Jasmine. In the end it’s the29:29 – Aimee: I am curious would you be willing to expand on what the Selenium folks were saying about Puppeteer and others may not provide?29:54 – Guest: Cypress was built for frontend developers. They don’t care about cross browser, and they tested in Chrome. Most browsers are typically the same. Selenium was built with the QA mindset – end to end tests that we need to do cross browser.The guest continues with this topic.30:54 – Aimee mentions Cypress. 31:08 – Guest: My guessing is that their priority is not there. I kind of agree with them.31:21 – Aimee: I think they are focusing on mobile more.31:24 – Guest: I think cross browser testing is less of an issue now. There is one area that is important it’s the visual area! It’s important to test visually across these different browsers.32:32 – Guest: Selenium is a Swiss knife – it can do everything.33:32 – Chuck: I am thinking about different topics to talk about. I haven’t used Puppeteer. What’s that about?33:49 – Guest: Puppeteer is much more like Selenium. The reason why it’s great is b/c Puppeteer will always be Google Chrome. 35:42 – Chuck: When should you be running your tests? I like to use some unit tests when I am doing my development but how do you break that down?36:06 – Guest.38:30 – Chuck: You run tests against production?38:45 – Guest: Don’t run tests against production...let me clarify!39:14 – Chuck.39:21 – Guest: When I am talking about integration testing in the backend...40:37 – Chuck asks a question. 40:47 – Guest: I am constantly running between frontend and backend.I didn’t know how to run tests for frontend. I had to invent a new thing and I “invented” the package JS DONG. It’s an implementation of Dong in Node. I found out that I wasn’t the only one and that there were others out there, too.43:14 – Chuck: Nice! You talked in the prep docs that you urged a new frontend developer to not run the app in the browser for 2 months?43:25 – Guest: Yeah, I found out that she was running the application...she said she knew how to write tests. I wanted her to see it my way and it probably was a radical train-of-thought, and that was this...44:40 – Guest: Frontend is so visual.45:12 – Chuck: What are you working on now?45:16 – Guest: I am working with Applitools and I was impressed with what they were doing.The guest goes into further detail.46:08 – Guest: Those screenshots are never the same.48:36 – Panel: It’s...comparing the output to the static site to the...48:50 – Guest: Yes, that static site – if you have 30 pages in your app – most of those are the same. We have this trick where we don’t upload it again and again. Uploading the whole static site is usually very quick. The second thing is we don’t wait for the results. We don’t wait for the whole rendering and we continue with the

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Episoder(735)

JSJ 371: The Benefits and Challenges of Server-Side Rendering (SSR) with Dan Shappir

JSJ 371: The Benefits and Challenges of Server-Side Rendering (SSR) with Dan Shappir

SponsorsTriplebyte offers a $1000 signing bonusSentry use the code “devchat” for $100 creditCacheFlyPanelCharles Max WoodJoe EamesChristopher BuechelerAimee KnightAJ O’NealJoined by special guest: Dan ShappirEpisode SummaryIn this episode of JavaScript Jabber, special guest Dan Shappir, Performance Tech Lead at Wix, kicks off the discussion by defining server-side rendering (SSR) along with giving its historical background, and touches on the differences between server rendering and server-side rendering. He helps listeners understand in detail how SSR is beneficial for the web and takes questions from the panel about how it affects web performance in cases where first-time users and returning users are involved, and how does SSR fare against technologies such as pre-rendering. He then elaborates on the pitfalls and challenges of SSR including managing and declaring variables, memory leaks, performance issues, handling SEO, and more, along with ways to mitigate them. In the end, Dan sheds some light on when should developers use SSR and how should they start working with it.LinksDan’s TwitterDan’s GitHubSSRWeakMapFollow JavaScript Jabber on Devchat.tv, Facebook and Twitter.PicksChristopher Buecheler:Tip - Take some time off once in a whileAimee Knight:Learning How to Learn: Powerful mental tools to help you master tough subjectsAJ O’Neal:Fatherhood!Joe Eames:Tiny TownsThe GoldbergsCharles Max Wood:EverywhereJSChristopher Buecheler’s booksGet a Coder Job - Publishing soon!Dan Shappir:QuoraCorvid by WixYou Gotta Love Frontend ConferencesSpecial Guest: Dan Shappir. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

2 Jul 20191h 10min

JSJ 370:  Azure Functions Part II with Jeff Hollan LIVE at Microsoft BUILD

JSJ 370: Azure Functions Part II with Jeff Hollan LIVE at Microsoft BUILD

SponsorsTriplebyte offers a $1000 signing bonusSentry use the code “devchat” for 2 months free on Sentry small planCacheFlyPanelCharles Max Wood Joined by Special Guest: Jeff Hollan Episode SummaryComing to you live from the podcast booth at Microsoft BUILD is Charles Max Wood with Jeff Hollan. Jeff is a Sr. Program Manager for the Azure Functions cloud service. Continuing from where Colby Tresness left off in Adventures in Angular 241: Azure Functions with Colby Tresness LIVE at Microsoft BUILD, Jeff defines what “serverless” really means in developer world. Jeff also talks about various scenarios where Azure functions are extremely useful and explains what Durable Functions are.Jeff and Charles discuss creating and running an Azure function inside a container and the upcoming capabilities of Azure functions they are currently working on.LinksJavaScript Jabber 369: Azure Functions with Colby Tresness LIVE at Microsoft BUILDDurable FunctionsJeff’s GitHubJeff’s TwitterJeff’s LinkedInJeff’s WebsiteJeff’s MediumMicrosoft Build 2019Follow JavaScript Jabber on Devchat.tv, Facebook and Twitter.PicksJeff Hollan:Calm AppGame of Thrones TV SeriesCharles Max Wood:Family Tree AppSpecial Guest: Jeff Hollan. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

25 Jun 201954min

JSJ 369:  Azure Functions with Colby Tresness LIVE at MIcrosoft BUILD

JSJ 369: Azure Functions with Colby Tresness LIVE at MIcrosoft BUILD

SponsorsTriplebyte offers a $1000 signing bonusSentry use the code “devchat” for $100 creditLinode offers $20 creditCacheFlyPanelCharles Max Wood Joined by Special Guest: Colby TresnessEpisode SummaryComing to you live from the podcast booth at Microsoft BUILD is Charles Max Wood with Colby Tresness. Colby is a Program Manager on Azure Functions at Microsoft. Azure functions are the serverless functions on Azure. Colby explains what the Azure functions premium plan entails, then talks about KEDA – Kubernetes-based event-driven autoscaling, a Microsoft and Red Hat partnered open source component to provide event-driven capabilities for any Kubernetes workload. One of the other cool features of serverless functions they talk about is the Azure serverless community library.Colby and Charles discuss the best way to get started with Azure functions, as well as the non-JavaScript languages it supports.LinksColby’s GitHubColby’s TwitterColby’s LinkedInColby’s BlogMicrosoft Build 2019KEDARed HatAzure Serverless Community LibraryFollow Adventures in Angular on tv, Facebook and Twitter.PicksColby Tresness:Barry (TV Series 2018– ) – IMDb Charles Max Wood:The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the WildThe MFCEO Project Podcast – Andy Frisella Downtown SeattleSpecial Guest: Colby Tresness. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

18 Jun 201938min

JSJ 368: TypeScript - Good or Bad

JSJ 368: TypeScript - Good or Bad

SponsorsTriplebyte offers a $1000 signing bonusSentry use the code “devchat” for $100 creditLinode offers $20 creditCacheFlyPanelJoe EamesAJ O’NealEpisode SummaryIn this episode of JavaScript Jabber, Joe Eames and AJ O’Neal talk about what TypeScript is, and their background and experiences with it. They discuss the different kinds of typed languages such as dynamic vs static, strong vs weak, implicit vs explicit casting and the reasons for selecting one type over the other. AJ shares his opinion on not preferring TypeScript in general, while Joe offers a counter perspective on liking it, and both give a number of reasons to support each argument. They talk about some final good and bad points about TypeScript and move on to picks.LinksTypeScriptCoffeeScriptFollow JavaScript Jabber on Devchat.tv, Facebook and Twitter.PicksJoe Eames:CypressWhat if your dev environment was a PWA? 🤯 | Eric SimonsAngular 8 IntergalacticStar Wars Tantive IV Lego setAJ O’Neal:Measure What Matters@root on npm@bluecrypt on npm  Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

11 Jun 201958min

JSJ 367: Pair Programming

JSJ 367: Pair Programming

SponsorsTriplebyte offers a $1000 signing bonusSentry use the code “devchat” for $100 creditLinode offers $20 creditCacheFlyPanelAimee KnightAJ O’NealChris FerdinandiEpisode SummaryIn this episode of JavaScript Jabber, the panelists discuss each one’s definition of the term ‘pairing’ in programming, including factors like being remote or local, having different seniority levels and the various approaches of going about it in general. They talk about how valuable pairing is, in terms of benefiting the individual as well as how productive it is for the company or the overall business.The panel also discuss prototyping, pseudo-coding and the advantages and trade-offs involved in pair programming. They talk about their own experiences in which pairing had proven to be extremely beneficial and the ones where it went completely wrong, thereby helping listeners understand the dos and don’ts of the technique. In the end, they elaborate on what actually happens in pairing interviews and the overall hiring process while sharing anecdotes from their own lives.LinksFollow JavaScript Jabber on Devchat.tv, Facebook and Twitter.PicksChris Ferdinandi:Enso RingsVanilla JS ProjectsAJ O’Neal:Salt and Pepper Grinder setPeppercorn blendPink Himalayan saltAimee Knight:Enneagram testKittyramaSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

4 Jun 20191h 4min

JSJ 366: npm with Mikeal Rogers

JSJ 366: npm with Mikeal Rogers

SponsorsTriplebyte offers a $1000 signing bonusSentry use the code “devchat” for $100 creditLinode offers $20 creditCacheFlyPanelAJ O’NealChris FerdinandiAimee KnightCharles Max WoodJoined by special guest: Mikeal RogersEpisode SummaryThis episode of JavaScript Jabber starts with Mikeal Rogers introducing himself and his work in brief. Charles clarifies that he wants to focus this show on some beginner content such as node.js basics, so Mikeal gives some historical background on the concept, elaborates on its modern usage and features and explains what “streams” are, for listeners who are starting to get into JavaScript. The panelists then discuss how languages like Go and Python compare to node.js in terms of growth and individual learning curves. Mikeal answers questions about alternate CLIs, package management, Pika, import maps and their effect on node.js, and on learning JavaScript in general. Chris, Charles and AJ also chip in with their experiences in teaching modern JS to new learners and its difficulty level in comparison to other frameworks. They wrap up the episode with picks.LinksMikeal on TwitterMikeal on GitHubFollow JavaScript Jabber on Devchat.tv, Facebook and Twitter.PicksChris Ferdinandi:Mozilla FirefoxArtifact ConferenceAimee Knight:A Magician Explains Why We See What’s Not ThereProgramming: doing it more vs doing it betterMikeal Rogers:The Future of the Web – CascadiaJS 2018Brave BrowserCharles Max Wood:PodwrenchSpecial Guest: Mikeal Rogers. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

28 Mai 20191h 11min

JSJ 365: Do You Need a Front-End Framework?

JSJ 365: Do You Need a Front-End Framework?

SponsorsSentry use code “devchat” for 2 months free Triplebyte $1000 signing bonus LinodePanelCharles Max WoodAimee KnightChris FerdinandiAJ O’NealJoe EamesEpisode SummaryToday the panel discusses the necessity of a front end framework. Overall, there is a consensus that frameworks are not necessary in all situations. They discuss the downsides of using frameworks, such as being restricted by the framework when doing edge development and the time required for learning a framework. They talk about the value of frameworks for learning patterns in programming. The panel delves into the pros and cons of different frameworks available. Joe shares a story about teaching someone first without a framework and then introducing them to frameworks, and the way it helped with their learning. One of the pros of frameworks is that they are better documented than manual coding. They all agree that it is not enough to just know a framework, you must continue to learn JavaScript as well. They talk about the necessity for new programmers to learn a framework to get a job, and the consensus is that a knowledge of vanilla JavaScript and a general knowledge of the framework for the job is important. New programmers are advised to not be crippled by the fear of not knowing enough and to have an attitude of continual learning. In the technology industry, it is easy to get overwhelmed by all the developments and feel that one cannot possibly learn it all. Charles gives advice on how to find your place in the development world. The show concludes with the panel agreeing that frameworks are overall a good thing and are valuable tools. LinksJWTAngularVueBackboneGoLangExpressReactReduxHyper HTML4eachPascalJQueryNpm.js Follow DevChat on Facebook and Twitter PicksCharles Max Wood:PodwrenchAimee Knight:How to Love Your Job and Avoid BurnoutSo Good They Can’t Ignore YouChris Ferdinandi:Vanilla JS toolkitThinksterArtifact ConferenceAJ O’Neal:Binary CocoaBinary Cocoa Slamorama KickstarterBinary Cocoa Straight 4RootSupport this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

21 Mai 20191h 14min

JSJ 364: Ember Octane with Sam Selikoff

JSJ 364: Ember Octane with Sam Selikoff

SponsorsTriplebyte offers a $1000 signing bonusSentry use the code “devchat” for $100 creditLinodeCacheFlyPanelAJ O’NealJoined by special guest: Sam SelikoffEpisode SummaryIn this episode of JavaScript Jabber, Sam Selikoff, Co-Founder at EmberMap, Inc. starts with giving a brief background about himself and his work followed by a discussion with AJ O’Neal about the Ember community. Sam mentions some of the biggest advantages in using Ember, and what it should and should not be used for. He explains the architecture of Ember apps, addresses some of the performance concerns and then dives into Octane in detail. He talks about a bunch of Ember components, compiler compatibility, relative weight of Ember apps compared to other frameworks, the underlying build system, and security considerations. Sam then helps listeners understand the usage of ES6 classes and decorators in Ember at length. At the end, they discuss component rendering and element modifiers and move onto picks.LinksSam’s websiteSam on TwitterSam on GitHubFollow JavaScript Jabber on Devchat.tv, Facebook and Twitter.PicksAJ O’Neal:Good Mythical Morning - YouTubeSam Selikoff:The Man In the High Castle  Tailwind CSSSpecial Guest: Sam Selikoff. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

14 Mai 201952min

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