JSJ 341: Testing in JavaScript with Gil Tayar

JSJ 341: Testing in JavaScript with Gil Tayar

Panel:
  • Aimee Knight
  • AJ O’Neal
  • Charles Max Wood
Special Guest: Gil Tayar In this episode, the panel talks with Gil Tayar who is currently residing in Tel Aviv and is a software engineer. He is currently the Senior Architect at Applitools in Israel. The panel and the guest talk about the different types of tests and when/how one is to use a certain test in a particular situation. They also mention Node, React, Selenium, Puppeteer, and much more!Show Topics:0:00 – Advertisement: KENDO UI 0:35 – Chuck: Our panel is AJ, Aimee, myself – and our special guest is Gil Tayar. Tell us why you are famous!1:13 – Gil talks about where he resides and his background. 2:27 – Chuck: What is the landscape like now with testing and testing tools now?2:39 – Guest: There is a huge renaissance with the JavaScript community. Testing has moved forward in the frontend and backend. Today we have lots of testing tools. We can do frontend testing that wasn’t possible 5 years ago. The major change was React.The guest talks about Node, React, tools, and more!4:17 – Aimee: I advocate for tests and testing. There is a grey area though...how do you treat that? If you have to get something into production, but it’s not THE thing to get into production, does that fall into product or...what?5:02 – Guest: We decided to test everything in the beginning. We actually cam through and did that and since then I don’t think I can use the right code without testing. There are a lot of different situations, though, to consider.The guest gives hypothetical situations that people could face. 6:27 – Aimee.6:32 – Guest: The horror to changing code without tests, I don’t know, I haven’t done that for a while. You write with fear in your heart. Your design is driven by fear, and not what you think is right. In the beginning don’t write those tests, but...7:22 – Aimee: I totally agree and I could go on and on and on.7:42 – Panel: I want to do tests when I know they will create value. I don’t want to do it b/c it’s a mundane thing. Secondly, I find that some times I am in a situation where I cannot write the test b/c I would have to know the business logic is correct. I am in this discovery mode of what is the business logic? I am not just building your app.I guess I just need advice in this area, I guess.8:55 – Guest gives advice to panelist’s question. He mentions how there are two schools of thought.10:20 – Guest: Don’t mock too much.10:54 – Panel: Are unit tests the easiest? I just reach for unit testing b/c it helps me code faster. But 90% of my code is NOT that.11:18 – Guest: Exactly! Most of our test is glue – gluing together a bunch of different stuff! Those are best tested as a medium-sized integration suite.12:39 – Panel: That seems like a lot of work, though! I loathe the database stuff b/c they don’t map cleanly. I hate this database stuff.13:06 – Guest: I agree, but don’t knock the database, but knock the level above the database.13:49 – Guest: Yes, it takes time! Building the script and the testing tools, but when you have it then adding to it is zero time. Once you are in the air it’s smooth sailing.14:17 – Panel: I guess I can see that. I like to do the dumb-way the first time. I am not clear on the transition.14:47 – Guest: Write the code, and then write the tests.The guest gives a hypothetical situation on how/when to test in a certain situation. 16:25 – Panel: Can you talk about that more, please?16:50 – Guest: Don’t have the same unit – do browser and business logic stuff separated. The real business logic stuff needs to be above that level. First principle is separation of concerns.18:04 – Panel talks about dependency interjection and asks a question. 18:27 – Guest: What I am talking about very, very light inter-dependency interjection.19:19 – Panel: You have a main function and you are doing requires in the main function. You are passing the pieces of that into the components that need it.19:44 – Guest: I only do it when it’s necessary; it’s not a religion for me. I do it only for those layers that I know will need to be mocked; like database layers, etc.20:09 – Panel.20:19 – Guest: It’s taken me 80 years to figure out, but I have made plenty of mistakes a long the way. A test should run for 2-5 minutes max for package.20:53 – Panel: What if you have a really messy legacy system? How do you recommend going into that? Do you write tests for things that you think needs to get tested?21:39 – Guest answers the question and mentions Selenium! 24:27 – Panel: I like that approach.24:35 – Chuck: When you say integration test what do you mean?24:44 – Guest: Integration tests aren’t usually talked about. For most people it’s tests that test the database level against the database. For me, the integration tests are taking a set of classes as they are in the application and testing them together w/o the...so they can run in millisecond time.26:54 – Advertisement – Sentry.io 27:52 – Chuck: How much do the tools matter?28:01 – Guest: The revolutions matter. Whether you use Jasmine or Mocha or whatever I don’t think it matters. The tests matter not the tools.28:39 – Aimee: Yes and no. I think some tools are outdated.28:50 – Guest: I got a lot of flack about my blog where I talk about Cypress versus Selenium. I will never use Jasmine. In the end it’s the29:29 – Aimee: I am curious would you be willing to expand on what the Selenium folks were saying about Puppeteer and others may not provide?29:54 – Guest: Cypress was built for frontend developers. They don’t care about cross browser, and they tested in Chrome. Most browsers are typically the same. Selenium was built with the QA mindset – end to end tests that we need to do cross browser.The guest continues with this topic.30:54 – Aimee mentions Cypress. 31:08 – Guest: My guessing is that their priority is not there. I kind of agree with them.31:21 – Aimee: I think they are focusing on mobile more.31:24 – Guest: I think cross browser testing is less of an issue now. There is one area that is important it’s the visual area! It’s important to test visually across these different browsers.32:32 – Guest: Selenium is a Swiss knife – it can do everything.33:32 – Chuck: I am thinking about different topics to talk about. I haven’t used Puppeteer. What’s that about?33:49 – Guest: Puppeteer is much more like Selenium. The reason why it’s great is b/c Puppeteer will always be Google Chrome. 35:42 – Chuck: When should you be running your tests? I like to use some unit tests when I am doing my development but how do you break that down?36:06 – Guest.38:30 – Chuck: You run tests against production?38:45 – Guest: Don’t run tests against production...let me clarify!39:14 – Chuck.39:21 – Guest: When I am talking about integration testing in the backend...40:37 – Chuck asks a question. 40:47 – Guest: I am constantly running between frontend and backend.I didn’t know how to run tests for frontend. I had to invent a new thing and I “invented” the package JS DONG. It’s an implementation of Dong in Node. I found out that I wasn’t the only one and that there were others out there, too.43:14 – Chuck: Nice! You talked in the prep docs that you urged a new frontend developer to not run the app in the browser for 2 months?43:25 – Guest: Yeah, I found out that she was running the application...she said she knew how to write tests. I wanted her to see it my way and it probably was a radical train-of-thought, and that was this...44:40 – Guest: Frontend is so visual.45:12 – Chuck: What are you working on now?45:16 – Guest: I am working with Applitools and I was impressed with what they were doing.The guest goes into further detail.46:08 – Guest: Those screenshots are never the same.48:36 – Panel: It’s...comparing the output to the static site to the...48:50 – Guest: Yes, that static site – if you have 30 pages in your app – most of those are the same. We have this trick where we don’t upload it again and again. Uploading the whole static site is usually very quick. The second thing is we don’t wait for the results. We don’t wait for the whole rendering and we continue with the

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Episoder(735)

JSJ 363:  Practical JAMstack and Serverless with Gareth McCumskey

JSJ 363: Practical JAMstack and Serverless with Gareth McCumskey

SponsorsTriplebyte offers a $1000 signing bonusSentry use the code “devchat” for $100 creditLinodeCacheFlyPanelCharles Max WoodAimee KnightAJ O’NealAaron FrostJoe EamesJoined by Special Guest: Gareth McCumskeySummaryGareth McCumskey introduces JAMstack and serverless. He goes into great detail on how it works. Aimee Knight and Aaron Frost voice their concerns about going serverless. Aimee thinks it feels dirty. Aaron has concerns about the code, is it actually easier, what use cases would he use it for, and does it actually save money. Gareth addresses these concerns and the rest of the panel considers the positive and negatives of using JAMstack and serverless. Charles Max Wood asks for specific use cases; Gareth supplies many uses cases and the benefits that each of these cases.Linkshttp://herodev.com/https://thinkster.io/https://jamstack.org/https://www.mongodb.com/cloud/stitchhttps://expatexplore.com/https://serverless.com/https://www.cloud66.com/https://aws.amazon.com/dynamodb/https://twitter.com/garethmcchttps://www.facebook.com/javascriptjabberhttps://twitter.com/JSJabberPicksCharles Max Wood:Join the mailing listWatch out for new podcastsSend me defunct podcasts you love chuck@devchat.tvAimee Knight:Productivity Isn’t About Time Management. It’s About Attention Management.Quest Nutrition Protein BarsAJ O’Neal:Distant Worlds: Music from Final Fantasy by Nobuo UematsuLegend Of Zelda Concert 2018 Original Soundtrack by Never Land Orchestra  How to Diagnose and Fix Everything Electronic by Michael Jay Geier  Aaron Frost:The Go-Giver, Expanded Edition: A Little Story About a Powerful Business IdeaGareth McCumskey:https://www.finalfantasyxiv.com/Steam Play on LinuxJoe Eames:Expanding your horizonsSeven Languages in Seven Weeks: A Pragmatic Guide to Learning Programming LanguagesSeven More Languages in Seven Weeks: Languages That Are Shaping the Futurehttps://elm-lang.org/Special Guest: Gareth McCumskey. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

7 Mai 20191h 10min

JSJ 362:  Accessibility with Chris DeMars

JSJ 362: Accessibility with Chris DeMars

SponsorsSentry use code “devchat” for 2 months free Triplebyte $1000 signing bonus PanelCharles Max WoodAimee KnightChris FerdinandiAJ O’NealJoe EamesJoined by Special Guest: Chris DeMarsEpisode Summary Special guest Chris DeMars is from Detroit, MI. Currently, he works for Tuft and Needle and is an international speaker, Google developer expert, Microsoft mvp, and web accessibility specialist. He comes from a varied work background, including truck driving and other non-tech jobs.    Today the panel discusses web accessibility for people with disabilities. According to a study done by WebAIM, 97.8% of homepages tested had detectable WCAG 2 failures. The panel discusses why web accessibility is doing so poorly. Chris talks about some of the biggest mistakes he sees and some very simple fixes to make sites more accessible. Chris talks about the importance of manual testing on screen readers and emphasizes that it is important to cover the screen to make sure that it really works with a screen reader. Chris talks about some of the resources available for those who wish to increase accessibility on their sites.   The team discusses tactics for prioritizing accessibility and if there is a moral obligation to make sites accessible to those with disabilities. Chris talks about his experience making accessibility a priority for one of the companies he worked for in the past. They discuss the futue of legal ramifications for sites that do not incorporate accessibility, and what responsibility falls on the shoulders of people who regularly use assistive devices to notify companies of issues. They finish the show with resources available to people who want to learn more. LinksThe DOMSemantic markup writingsAlt attributeAxe by DeQue BootstrapAria lableWebAim study Follow DevChat on Facebook and Twitter PicksCharles Max Wood:LootCrateAimee Knight:Implementing Git in Python tutorialChris Ferdinandi:"Fighting Uphill" by Eric Bailey“The Web We Broke” by Ethan Marcotte AllBirds sneakers NewsletterAJ O’Neal:Golang Channel vs Mutex vs WaitGroupNobuo UematsuThe Best Way to Tin Enameled WireJoe Eames:Gizmos board gameThinkster.io accessibility course (not released yet)Chris DeMars:Dixxon Flannel CompanyAquis.com accessibility simulator Refactr accessibility workshop in June Follow Chris Special Guest: Chris DeMars. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

30 Apr 20191h 3min

JSJ 361:  Enough with the JS Already with Nicholas Zakas

JSJ 361: Enough with the JS Already with Nicholas Zakas

SponsorsTriplebyte offers a $1000 signing bonusSentry use the code “devchat” for $100 creditCacheFlyPanelAJ O’NealJoe EamesAimee KnightCharles Max WoodChris FerdinandiJoined by Special guest: Nicholas ZakasSummaryNicholas Zakas discusses the overuse of JavaScript and the underuse of HTML and CSS. The panel contemplates the talk Nicholas Zakas gave 6 years ago about this very same topic and how this is still a problem in the development community. Nicholas expounds on the negative effects overusing Javascript has on web applications and the things that using HTML and CSS do really well. The panel talks about the need for simplicity and using the right tool to build applications. Nicholas recommends the methods he uses to build greenfield applications and to improve existing applications.Linkshttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=li4Y0E_x8zEhttps://www.slideshare.net/nzakas/enough-withthejavascriptalreadyhttps://twitter.com/slicknethttps://humanwhocodes.com/https://www.facebook.com/javascriptjabberhttps://twitter.com/JSJabberPicksChris Ferdinandi:The Umbrella Academy Official Trailerhttps://github.com/features/actionsAJ O’Neal:Jurassic ParkTerminator 2E6000 adhesiveAimee Knight:https://www.reebok.com/us/reebok-legacy-lifter/BD4730.htmlhttps://www.holloway.com/g/equity-compensationCharles Max Wood:https://podfestexpo.com/http://charlesmaxwood.com/https://www.11ty.io/https://www.netlify.com/Joe Eames:https://www.mysteryscenemag.com/blog-article/5905-tom-straw-the-author-behind-castleRichard Castle bookshttps://vanillajslist.com/Nicholas Zakas:The Power of Full Engagement: Managing Energy, Not Time, Is the Key to High Performance and Personal Renewal by Jim Loehr and Tony Schwartzhttps://opencollective.com/eslintSpecial Guest: Nicholas C. Zakas. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

23 Apr 20191h 8min

JSJ 360:  Evolutionary Design with James Shore

JSJ 360: Evolutionary Design with James Shore

SponsorsTriplebyte $1000 signing bonusSentry use the code “devchat” for $100 creditCacheFlyPanelAaron FrostAJ O’NealJoe EamesAimee KnightChris FerdinandiJoined by special guest: James ShoreEpisode SummarySpecial guest James Shore returns for another episode of JavaScript Jabber. Today the panel discusses the idea of evolutionary design. Evolutionary design comes from Agile development. It is based on the principles of continuous integration and delivery and test driven development. In short, evolutionary design is designing your code as you go rather than in advance.The panelists discuss the difficulties of evolutionary design and how to keep the code manageable.  James Shore introduces the three types of design that make up evolutionary design, namely simple design, incremental design, and continuous design. They talk about the differences between evolutionary design and intelligent design and the correlations between evolutionary design increasing in popularity and the usage of Cloud services. They talk about environments that are and are not conducive to evolutionary design and the financial ramifications of utilizing evolutionary design.The panelists talk about the difficulties of planning what is needed in code and how it could benefit from evolutionary design. James enumerates the steps for implementing evolutionary design, which are upfront design, reflective design, and refactoring . The team ends by discussing the value of frameworks and how they fit with evolutionary design.LinksAgileAngularAPICRC cards (class responsibility collaborators)EmberIntelliJNPMReactRedux ScrumWaterfallXJSPicksAJ O’Neal:Spiderman: Into the Spider-VersePre-gap tracks album listQuickChip remover alloyAimee Knight:Puns.devBoulderingJames Shore:Spiderman: Into the Spider VersePandemic LegacyAaron Frost:Easter Candy, especially Nerd Jelly beansCadbury Mini EggsFun D&D momentsJoe Eames: Chronicles of Crime board gameSpecial Guest: James Shore. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

16 Apr 20191h 2min

JSJ 359: Productivity with Mani Vaya

JSJ 359: Productivity with Mani Vaya

Get Mani's 2x Productivity CourseSponsorsSentry use the code “devchat” for $100 creditTriplebyteCacheFlyPanelAaron FrostAJ O’NealJoe EamesAimee KnightCharles Max WoodJoined by special guest: Mani VayaEpisode SummaryMani is the founder of a book summary business called www.2000books.com At 2000 Books, Mani studies the world’s greatest business and personal development books.Then he takes the most important ideas from each book and presents them in tight, 9- to 15-minute video summaries.You get the 4-7 most important ideas in a condensed format that's easy to absorb, easy to review, and easy to put into action immediately.To help people with productivity, Mani created an awesome course called “10x Productivity"His “10x Productivity" video course contains summaries of the 50 greatest books ever written on time management, productivity, goal setting, systems, execution, strategy and leverage."10x Productivity" pack includes summaries of all the NY Times Best Sellers on Productivity & Time Management, such as:The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen CoveyGetting Things Done by David AllenDeep Work by Cal NewportThe Power of Habit by Charles DuhiggThe One Thing by Gary KellerEssentialism by Greg McKeownAll together, this collection includes more than 250 strategies, tips, tools & techniques for:- Becoming more productive- Getting results rather than being busy, stressed out & frustrated- Time Management- Defeating procrastination- Achieving big goals- Hacking your brain for high performance- Identifying the highest leverage points that lead to much faster results- Creating powerful habits- Installing execution systems that make goal achievement inevitable10x Productivity Package contains:Summaries of the 50 greatest books ever written on Productivity & Time Management250+ greatest ideas, tips and strategies on Time Management & Productivity10+ Hours of no-fluff solid Video ContentPDF Summaries of all 50 booksSince Mani is my friend and fellow mastermind member, I worked with him to get you guys an amazing discount (using discount code “DEVCHAT”) on the 10x Productivity Book Summary Pack which you can find here Make sure to use the Coupon code “DEVCHAT” to get the discount.LinksMani’s 2x Productivity Course use the code “devchat” for a discountPicksAJ O’Neal:M. Night Shyamalan’s The Village colophony/pine sap/rosin/flux for electronics workAimee Knight:Interested In Becoming A Site Reliability Engineer? blog postCharles Max Wood:Entreprogrammers episode 248KanbonflowPhysical Pomodoro timerMani Vaya:NPR’s How I Built This podcast2000 Books podcastSpecial Guest: Mani Vaya. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

9 Apr 20191h 10min

JSJ 358: Pickle.js, Tooling, and Developer Happiness with Anatoliy Zaslavskiy

JSJ 358: Pickle.js, Tooling, and Developer Happiness with Anatoliy Zaslavskiy

SponsorsTriplebyte offers a $1000 signing bonusSentry use the code “devchat” for $100 credit CacheFlyPanelAJ O’NealCharles Max WoodJoined by Special Guest: Anatoliy ZaslavskiySummaryAnatoliy Zaslavskiy introduces pickle.js and answers the panels questions about using it. The panel discusses the automated testing culture and employee retention. The panel discusses job satisfaction and why there is so much turn over in development jobs. Charles Max Wood reveals some of the reasons that he left past development jobs and the panel considers how the impact of work environments and projects effect developers. Ways to choose the right job for you and how to better a work situation is discussed. Anatoliy finishes by advocating for junior developers and explaining the value they bring to a company. Linkshttps://github.com/storybooks/storybookhttps://www.picklejs.com/docs/getting-startedhttps://opencv.org/https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/snapcrap/id1436238261https://tolicodes.com/https://www.facebook.com/tolicodeshttps://www.facebook.com/javascriptjabberhttps://twitter.com/JSJabberPicksAJ O’NealThe Phoenix Project: A Novel about IT, DevOps, and Helping Your Business Win by Gene KimHow to Diagnose and Fix Everything Electronic, Second Edition by Michael Jay Geier   Charles Max Woodhttps://andyfrisella.com/blogs/mfceo-project-podcasthttps://www.garyvaynerchuk.com/the-askgaryvee-show-podcast/The 1-Page Marketing Plan: Get New Customers, Make More Money, And Stand out From The Crowd by Allan DibSkyward by Brandon SandersonAnatoliy ZaslavskiyAcro yogahttp://www.cuddleparty.com/ Special Guest: Anatoliy Zaslavskiy. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

2 Apr 20191h 6min

JSJ 357: Event-Stream & Package Vulnerabilities with Richard Feldman and Hillel Wayne

JSJ 357: Event-Stream & Package Vulnerabilities with Richard Feldman and Hillel Wayne

SponsorsTriplebyteSentry use the code “devchat” for $100 creditClubhouseCacheFlyPanelAaron FrostAJ O’NealChris FerdinandiJoe EamesAimee KnightCharles Max WoodJoined by special guests: Hillel Wayne and Richard FeldmanEpisode SummaryIn this episode of JavaScript Jabber, Hillel Wayne kicks off the podcast by giving a short background about his work, explains the concepts of formal methods and the popular npm package - event-stream, in brief. The panelists then dive into the recent event-stream attack and discuss it at length, focusing on different package managers and their vulnerabilities, as well as the security issues associated with them. They debate on whether paying open source developers for their work, thereby leading to an increase in contribution, would eventually help in improving security or not. They finally talk about what can be done to fix certain dependencies and susceptibilities to prevent further attacks and if there are any solutions that can make things both convenient and secure for users.LinksSTAMP model in accident investigationHillel’s TwitterHillel’s websiteRichard’s TwitterStamping on Event-StreamPicksJoe Eames:Stuffed FablesAimee Knight:SRE book - GoogleLululemon leggingsDVSR - BandAaron Frost:JSConf USChris Ferdinandi:Paws New EnglandVanilla JS GuidesCharles Max Wood:Sony Noise Cancelling HeadphonesKSL ClassifiedsUpworkRichard Feldman:Elm in ActionSentinels of the MultiverseHillel Wayne:Elm in the SpringPractical TLA+Nina Chicago - KnittingTomb TraderSpecial Guests: Hillel Wayne and Richard Feldman. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

26 Mar 20191h 10min

JSJ 356: Build Websites Like It's 2005 with Keith Cirkel

JSJ 356: Build Websites Like It's 2005 with Keith Cirkel

SponsorsTriplebyteSentry use the code “devchat” for $100 creditClubhouseCacheFlyPanelChris FerdinandiAimee KnightAaron FrostAJ O’NealJoined by special guest: Keith CirkelEpisode SummaryIn this episode of JavaScript Jabber, Keith Cirkel, Senior Application Engineer at GitHub, briefly explains the projects he is working with and moves on to the recent changes done by GitHub to their website, including the decision to remove jQuery, and not choosing a popular framework such as React or Vue. He talks about some problems in using Internet Explorer 11, how these GitHub changes can help with certain browser compatibility issues, and a few challenges the team had to face during the redesigning process.The panelists then discuss event delegation, performance considerations, Polyfill.io and web components. Keith gives some insight into accessibility and they talk about related user concerns.LinksKeith’s websiteKeith’s GitHubKeith’s TwitterGitHub Engineering blogFinancial Times – Polyfill serviceInclude fragment - elementPicksAaron Frost:Bag ManWhat It’s Like to Be A Woman on the InternetAimee Knight:Smooth Sailing with KubernetesJoe Eames:GitHub Free users get free unlimited private repositoriesSwigThings I don’t know as of 2018AJ O’Neal:Isopropyl alcoholBang good electronicsSoldering Iron – Hakko, X-TronicKeith Cirkel:GitHub careersHeston’s Pod & ChipsBrexitChris Ferdinandi:52 things I learned in 2018Learn Vanilla JSSpecial Guest: Keith Cirkel. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/javascript-jabber/donationsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacyBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/javascript-jabber--6102064/support.

19 Mar 201956min

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