Kastrup vs. Vervaeke: Mind Upload and the Shadow (Round 2 Debate)

I personally subscribe to The Economist. TOE listeners get 35% off the annual subscription. No other podcast has this! https://economist.com/TOE Bernardo Kastrup and John Vervaeke on mind uploading, shadow integration, and consciousness.0:00 Intro2:32 Round 1 summary10:29 Best counter to John's and Bernardo's position28:42 Vedanta, Brahma, and Lucid Dreaming40:45 Local vs global consciousness, and meta-consciousness43:40 Psychedelics and experiencing "mind at large"46:10 Whitehead and prehension51:40 John and Bernardo have moved closer philosophically55:39 Karl Friston's "inference"52:30 How to improve as an interviewer57:46 Transjectivity, and rejecting both the blank slate and romanticism1:02 42 Bernardo began as an "objectivist"1:08 15 Mind Uploading is nonsense1:12 58 Joscha Bach knows nothing about consciousness1:24 12 There's no "simulation" of consciousness. Who's the illusion occurring to?1:29 56 Growth doesn't stop when you're 20. We need more than the propositional.1:36 03 "Idolatry of the nerds" and how "thinking" is just one function of the psyche.1:39 25 Respecting the elderly1:41 52 Having mode vs. the Being mode1:48 05 Love is a kind of knowing. On "agape"1:58 30 Love is a part of nature, but not the only part.2:05 54 How to integrate the Shadow2:10 57 The processes that make us adaptive, make us self deceptive.2:13 18 Internal family systems therapy2:21 08 Curt's personal confession2:28 12 We think we must "win" but we must surrender. Surrender to what you are.2:34 40 Trying not to try2:40 05 Personal stories of darkness, from John and Bernardo2:50 50 Self knowledge, self acceptance, and "participating" in this world2:54 34 Bernardo and John are the opposite of how they seem. John more "woo" and Bernardo anti-"woo"2:58 37 Bernardo's shadow3:01 35 We need to reintegrate humor in spirituality3:05 28 How to build the modern religion?3:33 44 Where to find more about John and Bernardo3:39 36 BONUS [MrChocolateCookie] The paradox of trying not to try3:44 07 BONUS [Queerdo] Veganism and spiritual bypassing3:57 03 BONUS [David] What did you enjoy most about this conversation?3:59 33 BONUS John takes Curt through a breathing exercise4:01 28 BONUS The theolocution process is vehement but filled with loveSPONSORS:- Patreon: https://patreon.com/curtjaimungal- Crypto: https://nowpayments.io/donation/TOE- PayPal: https://tinyurl.com/paypalTOE- Twitter: https://twitter.com/TOEwithCurt- Discord: https://discord.com/invite/kBcnfNVwqs- Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/better-left-unsaid-with-curt-jaimungal/id1521758802- Pandora: https://pdora.co/33b9lfP- Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/4gL14b92xAErofYQA7bU4e- Reddit r/TheoriesOfEverything: https://reddit.com/r/theoriesofeverythingRESOURCES:- John Vervaeke: https://www.youtube.com/user/johnvervaeke- Bernardo Kastrup: https://www.youtube.com/user/bernardokastrup- Better Left Unsaid: http://betterleftunsaidfilm.com Theories of Everything with Curt Jaimungal features long-form, technically detailed interviews with leading researchers in physics, mathematics, consciousness, and philosophy, exploring topics at the level of active research. For academics, graduate students, and anyone seeking depth beyond popular science. FOLLOW: Substack | Spotify | YouTube | Twitter Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices