Episode 38: Navigating the Narcissist's Playbook with Mark Vicente

Narcissists don’t just take what they want—they dismantle their targets in the process.

In this episode, Dr. Z welcomes filmmaker and author Mark Vicente to discuss the dark realities of narcissistic abuse and its psychological aftermath. Known for his work on HBO’s “The Vow” and his upcoming documentary “Empathy Not Included: The Narcissist’s Playbook,” Mark sheds light on the manipulative behaviors of narcissists, the vulnerabilities they exploit, and the emotional fallout experienced by the survivors of their abuse.

Mark reflects on his personal journey of healing after being entangled with NXIVM, offering profound insight into how narcissists mirror their victims' deepest desires and vulnerabilities as a means to control them. He also unpacks the chilling reality of how some narcissists knowingly cause harm—and sometimes even revel in it.

Dr. Z and Mark touch on the broader implications of narcissism in society, from media manipulation to cultural denial of the harm narcissists can cause. Whether you’re seeking to understand narcissistic abuse or rebuild after trauma, this episode offers a compassionate and empowering perspective.

Quotes

• "One of the things I learned as I began learning about what narcissism is and is not, I recognize that there was a certain place that people bumped up against. Most normal empathic people cannot imagine that these people exist." (04:47 | Mark Vicente)
• “They were doing the work of masking the evil. And this is what we do. We don't want to live in that world because we want to live in this kind of fairy tale where good things happen to good people. To have it be true that there is a version of evil that's not like a Disney version, like a really, really dark version is so destabilizing to the psyche.” (09:56 | Mark Vicente)
• “The thing about psychopaths that's so interesting is that they analyze us very unemotionally. and they learn about the way our data works, so to speak." (16:15 | Mark Vicente)
• “People sometimes can't tell, they think it's excitement and it is, but sometimes that excitement is tinged with fear and desperation. And I always say when you're in that state with somebody, especially at the beginning, run. Because your cognitive thinking is going offline.” (20:26 | Mark Vicente)
• “When you're mapping the mind of an insane person, it does damage to you. And when you're mapping a psychopath, it's very confusing. It starts to do a lot of bad things to you internally, psychologically.” (26:11 | Mark Vicente)
• “I think feeling like a victim is a good phase. I think rage is so important. I mean, I can't tell you how many people, when we were waking up, I feel like there were certain psychologists who didn't understand how this worked, that would say things to us like, your anger's not sustainable. And I was like, it's sustainable as long as I need it.” (53:37 | Mark Vicente)

Links

Connect with Mark Vicente:

https://www.markvicente.com/

https://www.instagram.com/markvicente/

https://x.com/markvicente

https://www.empathynotincluded.com/

https://www.instagram.com/empathynotincluded/

Podcast: WTF is on my Mind?! https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/wtf-is-on-my-mind/id1646783869

YouTube Channel https://www.youtube.com/@markvicente7

Connect with Dr. Z: https://www.drjaimezuckerman.com/

https://www.zgrouptherapy.com/

https://www.instagram.com/dr.z_psychologist/

https://www.tiktok.com/@dr.z_psychologist

https://www.youtube.com/@DrJaimeZuckerman

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