Rory Sutherland on why marketing is the answer to economic growth
Uncensored CMO9 Apr 2025

Rory Sutherland on why marketing is the answer to economic growth

Rory Sutherland returns to the Uncensored CMO podcast, tackling the economic crisis with his signature wit and wisdom. As ever, he offers a refreshingly unconventional perspective on the world’s biggest problems — and marketing’s role in solving them.

In this episode, Rory explores why marketing is more like a casino than a science, how to capitalise on your competitors’ blind spots, and what his unexpected TikTok fame has taught him. Expect laughs, left-field insights, and the kind of brilliantly bizarre anecdotes only Rory can deliver.


Timestamps

00:00 - Intro
01:03 - Are we looking in the wrong place for growth?
05:33 - Should we slow down our adoption of AI?
09:08 - What marketers and the police have in common
14:40 - Marketing is a casino
17:42 - The most transformative behavioural science insights
19:47 - Take what your competition are doing badly and double down on it
26:20 - Fame is a luck multiplier
32:43 - Why AO add bears to every order
37:19 - How Rory would boost growth in the economy?
47:13 - What has Rory been profoundly wrong about and why

Episoder(231)

The flamingo effect: how Very made their retail brand sparkle - Jessica Myers Very CMO

The flamingo effect: how Very made their retail brand sparkle - Jessica Myers Very CMO

Today we're joined by Jessica Myers, CMO of The Very Group. Previously Jess was CMO at Metro Bank and has since made the transition to the highly competitive retail market. At Very, she has overseen the launch of a brand new fluent device; the pink flamingoes. The campaign featuring the new characters scored a whopping 5.7 stars on the System1 scoring platform, Test Your Ad, amongst the very best ads made this year.Timestamps00:00 - Intro00:52 - Jess’ background06:11 - Marketing academy fellowship07:13 - From big brand to challenger brand10:46 - The modern marketer11:57 - From finance to retail15:31 - Dealing with the challenges of joining a new business18:03 - Nailing positioning22:09 - Doing long term marketing in retail23:39 - Agency selection process for Very27:22 - Understanding your customer31:50 - The power of testing creative36:36 - The increasing standard of advertising38:28 - Creating a new fluent device - The Flamingoes43:20 - The future of the brand46:08 - Jess’ advice to aspiring marketers

31 Jan 202449min

Creating the Metaverse, lessons from Google Glass and the Whitehouse - Dave Kaufman, Meta

Creating the Metaverse, lessons from Google Glass and the Whitehouse - Dave Kaufman, Meta

Dave Kaufman is responsible for the marketing for one of the biggest tech bets of all time; the Metaverse. As Director of Global Marketing for VR and the Metaverse for Meta (formerly Facebook), it's fair to say Dave has a pretty sizeable task on his hands. He's no stranger to large marketing bets, having been on the marketing team for Google Glass, which ultimately failed. But sandwiched in-between working for Google and Meta, Dave worked for Obama's Whitehouse for the United States Digital Service.In this episode we discuss if the US is behind the UK in terms of marketing thinkers, why marketing education is overlooked, why Google Glass failed and what the future holds in terms of the Metaverse.LinksDave's LinkedInDave's viral LinkedIn articleJon's LinkedInJon's TwitterWatch the Uncensored CMO on YouTubeTimestamps00:00 - Intro00:58 - Dave’s favourite episodes of Uncensored CMO01:50 - Elon vs Mark in a fight02:31 - US vs UK marketing03:57 - How to not be full of sh*t in marketing09:16 - Was Google Glass a failure?15:50 - Launching the Meta X Rayban Sunglasses20:28 - Explaining the metaverse24:02 - How to quantify the success of the metaverse26:29 - When will the metaverse become mainstream?30:58 - Making virtual reality more familiar32:28 - Does tech have a marketing problem?38:20 - Working for founders46:39 - Working at President Obama’s Whitehouse53:35 - Working with low budgets56:47 - Dave’s bets for 2024

24 Jan 202459min

A B2B marketing masterclass with PwC's Global CMO, Antonia Wade

A B2B marketing masterclass with PwC's Global CMO, Antonia Wade

Today I'm joined by Antonia Wade, Global CMO at PwC and Author of The B2B Buyer Journey. This episode is a true B2B masterclass. We break down the importance of brand, reputation and relationships vs what people traditionally think is important in B2B. We also break down each stage of the marketing funnel to find out how best to reach them at every point in the buyer journey.LinksAntonia's LinkedInAntonia's BookJon's LinkedInJon's TwitterWatch the Uncensored CMO on YouTubeTimestamps00:00:00 - Intro00:01:10 - Antonia’s background00:06:01 - How does B2B and B2C differ?00:09:25 - How to reach B2B customers00:11:52 - Building B2B relationships00:17:30 - The importance of people in B2B00:20:53 - Why brand and reputation are so important00:24:43 - Why having an online presence matters00:29:39 - Marketing from cost centre to profit centre00:34:14 - Marketing at different stages of the buyer journey00:39:54 - Why people think B2B is boring00:46:30 - Why purpose has a bigger role in B2B00:48:38 - Stage 1: Reaching Horizon Scanners00:51:41 - Stage 2: Reaching Explorers00:55:18 - Stage 3: Reaching Hunters00:57:39 - Stage 4: Capturing the Active Buyer00:59:15 - Stage 5: Marketing post-purchase01:01:18 - How will AI transform B2B marketing

17 Jan 20241h 5min

Les & Sarah’s big review of the year

Les & Sarah’s big review of the year

One of the most popular episodes of all time was my first with Sarah Carter and Les Binet, so I'm bringing them back to do a review of 2023. We talk about what makes Les cry and if AI is going to take over our jobs.LinksJon's LinkedInJon's TwitterWatch the Uncensored CMO on YouTubeTimestamps00:00:00 - Intro00:01:05 - Les’ favourite ads of 202300:04:45 - Sarah’s favourite Christmas ads00:07:15 - Wear out00:12:30 - Why familiarity breeds contentment00:17:42 - Have we rediscovered homour in 2023?00:19:47 - The role of purpose in advertising00:29:17 - Diversity and representation00:34:53 - Kevin the carrot and characters00:41:52 - Fluent devices and consistency00:49:01 - Why do John Lewis run christmas ads every year00:50:40 - How did the first ad to ever air score?00:52:51 - The highest performing advertising categories00:55:04 - Lowest performing advertising categories01:00:12 - Outperforming your category01:03:08 - US Superbowl vs UK Christmas01:04:02 - Les and Sarah’s thoughts on AI01:14:03 - How reliable is ESOV01:15:52 - MMM Models01:19:32 - The best performing Adam and Eve ad01:21:42 - Predictions for 2024

10 Jan 20241h 25min

How confused.com challenged the meerkats on smaller budgets - Sam Day

How confused.com challenged the meerkats on smaller budgets - Sam Day

Now in this episode, we're talking about one of the most competitive markets in the world - insurance comparison. Anyone who's followed this market will know just how intense it is. And how do you build a brand when you don't have a product yourself, but you're selling someone else's product? Well, it's one of those situations where marketing is all important and advertising can make all the difference to your success.I'm catching up with Sam Day, who's been the CMO of confused.com, for the past 6 years, who successfully challenged this market and taken it from 4th to 2nd place on very limited budgets. So I want to find out from Sam the secret behind the success of the campaigns that he's run over the last few years, how he's transformed their business and what his plans are for the future.LinksJon's LinkedInJon's TwitterWatch the Uncensored CMO on YouTubeTimestamps00:00 - Intro03:53 - Sam’s advice to a young marketer06:27 - Sam’s greatest failure08:44 - Management and leadership advice12:27 - The secret to an extended CMO tenure19:41 - Getting c-suite buy in with data22:50 - Consistency24:26 - Marketing when you don’t have a product26:01 - Brand vs price28:43 - Why name the brand after the problem (confused.com)31:24 - Branding against one of the best branded characters of all time34:02 - Why there’s no silver bullet for success37:02 - Spontaneous awareness - how to win an effie39:50 - Selecting an agency42:01 - Great examples of populous advertising44:14 - How agencies should pitch to CMOs49:39 - What’s next for Sam Day

3 Jan 202452min

Reloaded: How to be a successful challenger - Adam Morgan (2020)

Reloaded: How to be a successful challenger - Adam Morgan (2020)

Today I'm revisiting episode 3, with Adam Morgan, founder of eatbigfish and author of Eating The Big Fish, The Pirate Inside and A Beautiful Constraint to find out what it takes to become a successful challenger. Adam shares his tips for creating a challenger brand, transforming your culture and the power of constraints to driving innovation.In this episode:Why being No.2 is betterHow he turned the anger of his project being shelved into a career-defining opportunityBeing turned down by Phil Knight and where the idea of a Challenger brand came fromThe importance of over-commitment and being obsessed with executionHow Tony’s Chocolonely have become a truly challenger brandHow to be a pirate in the navy without getting firedWhat you can learn from a catwalk show and how constraints can turn into your greatest advantageThe curse of data and how it leads us to a decline in creativityThe furtile zero and what to do with no budgetAdam shares his worst career momentWhy the meeting is never really the meeting and why the Japanese fall asleep in meetingsThe one thing Adam has never told anyone beforeFollow me:Twitter | @uncensoredCMOLinkedInContact me:Website | www.uncensoredcmo.comEmail – jon@uncensoredcmo.comAdam Morgan:Twitter | @eatbigfishwww.eatbigfish.comEating The Big FishThe Pirate InsideA Beautiful Constraint

27 Des 202356min

Top 10 marketing and behavioural science insights with Nudge host, Phill Agnew

Top 10 marketing and behavioural science insights with Nudge host, Phill Agnew

Today I'm joined by Phill Agnew, senior product marketer at Buffer and host of Nudge, the only podcast dedicated to consumer psychology, and the other podcast that regularly hits the top spot of the UK marketing charts. In this episode we share 5 behavioural science "nudges" and 5 marketing lessons that we've taken from our respective podcasts and careers.LinksNudge podcastJon's LinkedInJon's TwitterPhill's LinkedInPhill's TwitterTimestamps00:00 - Intro01:19 - How did Phill get into podcasting04:03 - Bonus Nudge - The Halo Effect06:29 - Nudge 5 - The Labour Illusion09:40 - Marketing Lesson 5 - The Power of Getting Fired13:25 - Nudge 4 - The Pratfall Effect19:26 - Marketing Lesson 4 - The Power of Purpose24:49 - Nudge 3 - The Curiosity Gap30:03 - Marketing Lesson 3 - Be Distinctive35:26 - Nudge 2 - Social Proof41:14 - Marketing Lesson 2 - The Power of Creativity45:10 - Nudge 1 - Fresh Start Date48:59 - Marketing Lesson 1 - The Power of Consistency

18 Des 20231h 2min

How Just Eat used celebrities and jingles to help them become market leader - Susan O'Brien

How Just Eat used celebrities and jingles to help them become market leader - Susan O'Brien

Today I'm joined by Susan O'Brien, who is the VP Brand at Just Eat Takeaway. Just Eat are famous for their ads with celebs such as Snoop Dogg and Katy Perry, but are even more well known for their catchy jingle "Did somebody say...?". In this episode we break down Susan's career and how to make such an effective campaign.Timestamps00:00 - Start01:16 - How Susan got into marketing03:43 - Freelancing07:30 - The secret to longevity as a marketer09:44 - The realities of being a CMO14:25 - The CMO’s view on Cannes16:44 - The “Did Somebody Say” campaign20:54 - The impact of audio branding24:11 - Operating in a fiercely competitive market26:01 - Choosing to invest in celebrity talent / Snoop Dogg29:06 - From Snoog Dogg to Katy Perry31:31 - Secret to an effective client agency relationship32:44 - Coming up with new ideas35:47 - Using your gut vs using the data39:35 - Advice to marketers in scale ups

13 Des 202343min

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