Rory Sutherland on why marketing is the answer to economic growth

Today I'm joined by one of the most influential and successful CMOs on the planet, Fernando Machado, of legendary Burger King fame. He went on to work at Activision and now is CMO at NotCo.Fernando is a creative genuis, he's been awarded many, many times I've started to lose count (over 200 Cannes Lions). I wanted to catch up with Fernando and find out what makes a great creative marketer, was that "Mouldy Whopper" campaign actually worth it, and why did they sponsor a low league English football team? We also talk about what is he doing now working for a plant-based company and how AI plays a crucial role for them.LinksFollow JonFollow FernandoWatch UCMO on YouTubeTopics covered:What makes an influential CMOThe culture that leads to award winning workThe importance of influencing an organisation QUOTEThe two hidden P’s of the CMOThe importance of a shared creative ambitionWhy shared values and purposes is so importantWhat it takes to create award winning work QUOTEWhy is takes time to build up the credibility to take risksWhy huge failures are similar to most campaigns QUOTEIf your creative isn’t noticed everything else is academicWhy attracting the best creative talent means committing to bold workThe more creative work you do the more creative you are likely to getWhen you have a smaller budget you have to get more creativeSharing the results for Mouldy Whopper in public to address the criticsWhere the idea for the Mouldy Whopper came from QUOTEWhat Fernando learnt at Activision BlizzardThe power of networking in finding a perfect roleThe biggest challenge facing NotCoWhy the best creative work gets done on small budgetsHow AI is accelerating the development of plant based productsHow AI beat the Nike design departmentHow AI created the most average Pizza advertWhy the brief matters when using AI QUOTEFrom curation to creative, why AI is a tool and not a replacement of the marketing functionWhy Notco is advertising old animalsThink of a colour that doesn’t existThe one piece of advice for marketers

10 Mai 202346min

Richard Warren has spent his career working in and growing agencies, but most recently has worked in house at one of the UK's largest banking group, Lloyds. In 2000 Richard founded DLKW as Director of Strategy, which grew to become the the UK’s largest independent agency, before merging with Lowe in 2010. As someone who has spent time on both sides, I wanted to catch up with Richard to find out how to make the most of the agency-client relationship.

3 Mai 202353min

Rebecca Dibb-Simkin is the Chief Product and Marketing Officer at Octopus Energy Group. Previously at British Gas, Rebecca has helped scale Octopus into an impressive challenger brand with over 50k customers and $10b in revenue.What we covered in this episodeResponding to a job ad written by Rory SutherlandFrom the tax department to marketingBeing rejected on graduate schemesPoetic job applicationsMarketing jargon that needs to be ditchedWhy being close to the customer mattersThe marketers role in the middle of the spiders webFrom energy industry giant to start upThe spontaneous moment that led to Octopus energyJon blags a speech on the Internet of thingsThe surprisingly short distance to the edge of our atmosphereThe cost advantage of green energyWhich energy sources are the cleanestThe tricky of balance of managing variable sources of energyAdvantages of smart energyHow octopus are helping with the cost of living crisisThe red tape holding us backHow to incentivise people to adopt wind powerThe 40,000 electric blankets helping people in crisisFrom 50,000 customers to 5 millionThe secret to seriously rapid growthThe Brewdog question that drives growthHow to handle 80k job applicationsKeeping the core management team togetherThe advantages of an in house agencyOutrageously good customer service with humansNow the octopus came aboutThe science behind animals as mascotsIn praise of simplicity and products that workRunning the same campaign over and over againThe role of industry awards

26 Apr 202349min

Jo Arden is the Chief Strategy Officer of Ogilvy UK, and she joins me on the podcast to talk all things strategy. What's involved, why it's important and how to make a career of it. Jo's experience is vast, not landing a "strategy" role until her 30's and since has had senior roles at Publicis•Poke and MullenLowe.Here's what we covered in our chat:How Jo got into strategyHer winding path from PR through business development and into strategyWhat does a Chief Strategy Officer do?The role of generosity in being a great CSOThe business case for involving your strategy team on a core business problemThe one question you should always ask your customer“Making your thinking as funny as possible”Why the winning ads in technology don’t take themselves seriouslyThe ‘good sense of humour’ approach to planning“If you aren’t having fun you aren’t doing great work”In praise of Dove and it’s purpose in advertising“If it didn’t sell it wasn’t creative”Why the industry loves a crisis narrativeThe crisis in creativity is more of a trend than a crisisCannes Lions role in creative exploration rather than effectivenessJon was left out of his own Cannes Lion winning partyThe one Campaign award no-one wants to winWhy Turkeys eat Lions for breakfast“The consumer is not a moron, she is your wife”The challenge of bringing the consumer into the roomThe importance of doing normal thingsSpending the most time out of the officeRabbits in the office and other fun things at OgilvyGenerating borderless creativityPutting pressure on the task and not yourselfHow to create an environment for creativity to happenWhat Jo would advise her 21 year old selfJon share his almost unbelievable imposter syndrome storyUsing the power of your network

19 Apr 202346min

Chaka Sobhani is Chief Creative Officer of Leo Burnett London. With 20 years of experience as an award winning director, writer and creative director, she has worked for the biggest broadcasters, brands and agencies worldwide. She hasn’t had a conventional advertising career, having spent over 10 years as a film maker and in television. Chaka was recruited by ITV to set up and ECD their first in-house creative agency, production company and design studio. She has worked on countless brands including McDonalds, Boots, Coca Cola & more.Watch the McDonalds ad.Talking points:Celebrating Campaign Creative Leader of the YearGetting rejected 200 times before breaking into the industrySetting up ITV’s in-house creative departmentLearning production techniques at ITVHow to make great work on a budgetWhat its like being a global Executive Creative DirectorHelping others being successfulGetting industry acclaim and audience success for McDonaldsWhere the ‘raising your arches’ idea came fromSystem1 Test Your Ad scores for McDonalds Raise Your ArchesThe subtle branding for McDonalds that stood outThe challenge of casting eye brow raisingHow Raise Your Arches became a Tik Tok sensationThe state of diversity and inclusion in the industryHow advertising doesn’t reflect the society we live inTreating diversity with the same passion as new businessTelling one persons story wellThe diversity dividend of representative advertising

12 Apr 202343min

Professor Jenni Romaniuk is the International Director of the world-famous Ehrenberg-Bass Institute and author of Building Distinctive Brand Assets and How Brands Grow Part 2 - revised. Jenni is a leading expert in brand equity, mental availability, brand health metrics, advertising effectiveness, distinctive assets, word of mouth and the role of loyalty and growth. Through her work at the Ehrenberg-Bass Institute she has advised many of the world’s biggest brands.Jenni is an engaging and entertaining keynote speaker that has presented her research at leading industry conferences globally. Her latest book Better Brand Health: Measures and Metrics in a How Brands Grow World, is for anyone who wants to get better at brand measurement and improve their brand health tracking.What we covered in this episode:The soft porn scam version of Jenni’s new bookThe one question Jenni hasn’t been askedPublicity over persuasionHow even academics don’t always have the right beliefsCan you have too many distinctive assets?How marketers over estimate the number of assets they haveWhy Ehrenberg Bass use an owl as their distinctive assetHow do you measure a distinctive assetDoes the time frame of measurement make a differenceThe difference between new and super light buyers for LucozadeBrand tracking on a small budgetWhy differentiation is the most surprising discovery by EBIWhat inspired the book  Starting with the laws that shape how brands growThe important of asking the right questionsCalibrating your tracker for your brand sizeWhich definition of brand awareness to useThe importance of non-buyers to your trackersDesigning for the category not your own objectivesWhy brand awareness is a lot less stable than you thinkThe probabilistic nature of memory and why recall changesThe power of Donald Trumps hairTypes of brand attributes and the role they playHow many category entry points does a brand needMental market share and how to measure itDistribution points of the mindThe importance of share of mindJenni writes a song to brand loveHow to measure your marketing  Some advice for Word of MouthThe role of physical availability on brand healthThe importance of physical availability to convert customersShopping distinctive assets

5 Apr 20231h 6min

A return for podcast guest number 1, Richard Shotton, following the launch of his brand new book "The Illusion of Choice: 16½ psychological biases that influence what we buy"."Every day, people make hundreds of choices.Many of these are commercial: What shampoo to pick? How much to spend on a bottle of wine? Whether to renew a subscription?These choices might appear to be freely made, but psychologists have shown that subtle changes in the way products are positioned, promoted and marketed can radically alter how customers behave.The Illusion of Choice identifies the 16½ most important psychological biases that everyone in business needs to be aware of today – and shows how any business can take advantage of these to win customers, retain customers and sell more.Richard Shotton, author of the acclaimed The Choice Factory, draws on academic research, previous ad campaigns and his own original field studies to create a fascinating and highly practical guide that focuses on the point where marketing meets the mind of the customer.You’ll learn to take advantage of the peak end rule, the power of precision, the wisdom of wit – and much, much more."What we covered in this episode:Why the podcast 4.9 star rating is the best oneThe meanest tweet Uncensored CMO ever hadSocial proof gives you wingsWhy the new book has 16 ½ chaptersFeel free to ignore this chapter in the bookWhy biases affect professionals as well as consumersThe Russian tank effect and how AI can be misledHow AI design a better pair of Nike TrainersRecency, primacy and the peak end ruleHow behavioural science supports the laws of marketingJon ranks the biasesThe Zuckerberg t-shirt principle (red sneaker effect)Why breaking convention is associated with higher statusAlways use concrete phrases not fluffy marketing nonsenseThe more visual the phrase the easier to rememberRelatable stories beat cold hard statisticsTelling one persons story well is better than trying to represent a groupHow well can experts predict a successful Super Bowl AdExperts are trained to see novelty rather than broad appealWe are all rewarded based on sophistication and complexity rather than simplicityHow thicker paper led to more charity donationsWhy marketer can’t predict how well their own advertising will doProfessional forecasters are no better at predicting than the average personWhy freedom of choice leads to much greater perceived valueWhy we would rather suffer a loss if we now someone else has done betterAdverts aren’t trying to be funny anymore even though the funny ones workWhy making a joke would increase your tipsMaking it easy is the best way to make someone do somethingWe radically underestimate the impact of removing frictionRemoving friction beats customer benefits every timeHow to frame your pricing so people buy your preferred productWhat colonoscopies can tell us about the peak end ruleWhy ads with a peak end perform better overallLinksFollow JonFollow RichardWatch UCMO on YouTube

29 Mar 20231h 6min

Les Binet and Sarah Carter are planning royalty. Starting out at the iconic BMP, the agency which evolved over time to become adam&eve today, they are the planners behind many famous campaigns. Not least John Lewis which lasted an impressive 14 years. A few years ago their popular myth busting column turned into the well known book ‘How Not to Plan’ taking conventional wisdom and turning it on its head. I catch up with the dynamic duo to pick their considerable brains on the topics they think marketers least understand.Talking points from this episode:The real godfather of effectivenessHow John Lewis changed ChristmasLes & Sarah pick a favourite adWhy vignette ads are a cop outWhat the John Lewis econometrics reveals about the campaignWhy you should make people feel something not show them feelingJon discovers the Long & the Short of itThe best way to really upset LesThat famous key visualCan you ever achieve both long & short at the same timeWhy consumers don’t give a s**tHow myth busting inspired the bookBeing turned down by Marketing WeekWhy there are more P’s than PromotionHow to involve planners earlyThe BMP Philosophy of planningHow not to get caught ShortWhy 60% of campaign results are long termHow not to be consistentKnowing what to change and when to change itWhat advertisers can learn from designersA little plug for Orlando’s fluent device workIt’s only advertising and no-one diedThe case for animals and musicHow not to make senseHow not to change your pricingWhy EPOS data switched spend from communication to price promotionDigital attribution is the new price promotionThe more detailed the measurement the worse the marketing has gotJon shares his only Effie case studyHow not to be differentWhy how you say something matters more than what you sayLes takes down the idea of loyaltyThe one topic which wasn’t covered in the bookFinding things to get angry about

15 Mar 20231h 2min