399 - John Vervaeke - What Is Spirit?

399 - John Vervaeke - What Is Spirit?

What is spirit? This was one of my most meaningful conversations with John Vervaeke yet. As we prepare for the Midwestuary 2025 conference in Chicago, we explore how beings come into existence, the mystery of unity and multiplicity, and what’s really going on with AI, angels, and the spirit of community. John shares some powerful personal transformations as well. I hope you enjoy this deep dive into spirit, ontology, and meaning.

YouTube version: https://youtu.be/hqmSW3SgzHs

Register for the 2025 Midwestuary Conference in Chicago, August 22-24: https://www.midwestuary.com/

NEW COURSE: Scripture: The Key to Reality, presented by Seraphim Hamilton
This course is designed to help students appreciate the unique role the Bible plays in helping us step into the world as it truly is: a symbolic revelation of the Infinite God. Scripture is symbolic because it is a revelation of Jesus Christ, and Jesus Christ is the Archetype of the World. In a way, then, Scripture enfolds within itself the totality of the world, guiding its hearers to see an icon of Christ in each of God’s creatures: from trees to beasts to priests.
- Live classes are on Tuesday at 2 - 4 pm Eastern Time, starting June 10th through July 22nd, 2025
- Class Length: 5 sessions, 10 hours total
- Cost: 120 USD (108 USD for Involved patrons)
- Register now: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/scripture-the-key-to-reality

- Get early access to Rapunzel and the Evil Witch: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/rapunzel-and-the-evil-witch
- Symbolism Masterclass course by Jonathan Pageau: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/symbolism-masterclass
- John Vervaeke's course on the Symbolic World, The Cognitive Science of Ritual: https://www.thesymbolicworld.com/courses/the-cognitive-science-of-ritual

00:00 - Intro by Jonathan
01:25 - Intro music
01:50 - Midwestuary conference details
03:42 - What is Spirit?
05:21 - John's response
08:22 - Fellowship
11:00 - Jonathan's response
13:34 - Why it's hard to think about unity and multiplicity
16:35 - Dualism in spirit
18:32 - Modern false dichotomies
24:19 - Jonathan: Spirit outside of minds?
30:57 - Are there non-psychological spirits?
33:42 - Gathered in man
35:55 - Reduction can go both ways
37:35 - The seat of self-consciousness
42:01 - A human centered view
43:36 - John: The standard of realness
49:30 - An embodied world for everyone
56:17 - Porosity between science and myth
01:00:39 - Breath
01:02:05 - A post-Kantian vision
01:05:52 - Exampting and group identity
01:10:40 - Liturgy and team spirit
01:17:48 - Are spirits just psychological?
01:20:26 - Prophesy
01:27:43 - How do we use technology?
01:34:01 - AI

🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau
🔒 BECOME A PATRON: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

Episoder(438)

440 - Dr. Zachary Porcu - Journey to Reality: De-Secularize Your Life

440 - Dr. Zachary Porcu - Journey to Reality: De-Secularize Your Life

In this conversation I speak with Dr. Zachary Porcu about his book, Journey to Reality: Sacramental Life in a Secular Age, and the challenge of explaining true Christian thinking to modern people. We ...

12 Mar 1h 4min

439 - Pavel Shchelin - Plutarch: Symbolism of History with Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin

439 - Pavel Shchelin - Plutarch: Symbolism of History with Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin

This is a conversation between Deacon Seraphim Rohlin and Pavel Shchelin on political theology, power, and Plutarch’s Lives. They explore how ancient biographies reveal enduring patterns of ambition, ...

5 Mar 1h 23min

438 - Universal History: The American Religion: Making Way for Mormonism

438 - Universal History: The American Religion: Making Way for Mormonism

Magical beginnings, secular endings. In this episode of Universal History, Deacon Seraphim Rohlin and I start a discussion about early Mormonism (or rather, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Sa...

2 Mar 1h 22min

437 - Making Space for the Resurrection of Art (Makers and Mystics)

437 - Making Space for the Resurrection of Art (Makers and Mystics)

In this conversation, I sit down with Stephen Roach on the Makers and Mystics podcast to explore why our stories feel exhausted — and what that reveals about our cultural moment. We talk about the end...

26 Feb 49min

436 - Reflections on the Void: negativity and difference in the Bible and contemporary thinking

436 - Reflections on the Void: negativity and difference in the Bible and contemporary thinking

In this episode I try to circle around something that is very difficult to speak about directly — the void.From the opening verses of Genesis, where the earth is described as “empty and void,” we are ...

19 Feb 51min

435 - The Song of Creation (Charleston talk)

435 - The Song of Creation (Charleston talk)

In this talk at St. Michael’s Church in Charleston, I walk through the seven days of creation as presented in Genesis, exploring creation as a divine song: a rhythm of heaven and earth, light and dark...

12 Feb 1h 4min

434 - Immigration and Tolerance: Christians Are Not Called to Be “Nice”

434 - Immigration and Tolerance: Christians Are Not Called to Be “Nice”

Many are called. Not all are chosen.There is a widespread idea that Christianity is about being “nice,” endlessly tolerant, and endlessly open. But that idea does not survive a careful reading of the ...

12 Feb 21min

433 - Symbolism Happens! The Mandela Effect Is Not a Glitch in the Matrix

433 - Symbolism Happens! The Mandela Effect Is Not a Glitch in the Matrix

I explore the Mandela Effect from a symbolic perspective. The Mandela Effect is a psychological phenomenon where a large group of people collectively share the same false memory of an event, detail, o...

30 Jan 22min

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