437 - Making Space for the Resurrection of Art (Makers and Mystics)

437 - Making Space for the Resurrection of Art (Makers and Mystics)

In this conversation, I sit down with Stephen Roach on the Makers and Mystics podcast to explore why our stories feel exhausted — and what that reveals about our cultural moment. We talk about the end of the post–World War II narrative, the collapse of the hero (and even the anti-hero), and how storytelling has drifted. We also discuss fairy tales, monsters, AI, and the future of art.

Let me know what you think in the comments and come join us at the Breath and the Clay conference, a creative arts gathering in Winston Salem, NC March 20-22, 2026: http://www.thebreathandtheclay.com/

YouTube version of this episode: https://youtu.be/Xbr6XQlspGQ

------------------------
Another opportunity to come together and meet is the Symbolic World Summit 2026! Speakers include Fr. Josiah Trenham, Mary Harrington, Dn. Seraphim Rohlin, myself, and others.
Date: May 14-16
Place: Broadview Heights, OH
Buy your tickets now and get $50 off with the early bird sale. Don't miss out: https://symbolicworldsummit.com/
Hope to see you there.

🎧 Listen to and review The Symbolic World podcast:
-Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0gI8bUwPtT3gkduHqNh6M5
-Apple podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-symbolic-world/id1386867488
🔓 Become a patron to support us and unlock exclusive monthly symbolism content: https://thesymbolicworld.com/subscribe
💻 Website and blog: http://www.thesymbolicworld.com
🔗 Linktree: https://linktr.ee/jonathanpageau

Timestamps:
00:00 - Coming up
01:21 - Intro music
01:47 - Introduction
03:08 - Narrative exhaustion
04:38 - End of the WW2 narrative
08:40 - Fairy tales
11:09 - Jonathan's retelling
13:17 - Art and ideology
17:41 - Complexity in religious art
21:32 - Trust in the audience
24:33 - Participation in art
28:27 - Distorted retellings
32:30 - Resistance of tyranny
35:28 - Identity and form
37:16 - Limitation and contemporary art
41:34 - AI art
44:11 - Human connection
45:30 - Making space

Our website designers: https://www.resonancehq.io/
My intro was arranged and recorded by Matthew Wilkinson: https://matthewwilkinson.net/

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Episoder(452)

454 - The Enemy Who Pretends to Be Your Friend

454 - The Enemy Who Pretends to Be Your Friend

We often think of enemies as those who attack us openly, but fairy tales also warn us about another kind of enemy: the one who comes close, pretends to be our friend, and destroys from within. I also ...

9 Jun 18min

453 - Seraphim Hamilton - Isaiah: The Fifth Gospel

453 - Seraphim Hamilton - Isaiah: The Fifth Gospel

I’m joined again by Seraphim Hamilton to discuss his upcoming Symbolic World course on Isaiah, beginning June 15th. We talk about why Isaiah is central for understanding Christ in the Old Testament, t...

2 Jun 49min

452 - Hillsdale talk - Mythological Thinking: The Crossroads of Psychology and Theology

452 - Hillsdale talk - Mythological Thinking: The Crossroads of Psychology and Theology

This is a talk I did at Hillsdale College in March 2026. In this talk, I explore mythological thinking as a way of understanding how facts become meaningful. Facts do not present themselves to us neut...

29 Mai 1h 20min

451 - Universal History: What Really Happened in Eden - Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin

451 - Universal History: What Really Happened in Eden - Dcn. Seraphim Rohlin

A telling of the events in Genesis that you might never have heard before.In this episode of Universal History, Deacon Seraphim Rohlin and I return to Genesis through the Syriac tradition, especially ...

26 Mai 1h 41min

450 - An Exploration of Modern Dysfunction: What Pluribus is Actually About

450 - An Exploration of Modern Dysfunction: What Pluribus is Actually About

In this video, I look at the symbolism of the recent TV show, Pluribus. There's a lot of speculation about whether it's an allegory for AI, the internet, totalitarianism, or resisting tyranny. But I w...

21 Mai 26min

449 - Decapitation Symbolism: The Glory of Losing Your Head

449 - Decapitation Symbolism: The Glory of Losing Your Head

In this video, I explore the symbolism of decapitation in the Bible and Christian tradition. Beginning with Joseph’s interpretation of the baker and cupbearer in Genesis, we trace a pattern of “liftin...

8 Mai 23min

448 - Fr. Josiah Trenham - How to Integrate Faith, Family, and Nation

448 - Fr. Josiah Trenham - How to Integrate Faith, Family, and Nation

I sat down with Fr. Josiah Trenham to talk about something that’s becoming harder to ignore: how to properly order your loyalties.We discussed the tension between faith, nation, family, and personal i...

29 Apr 31min

447 - Annie Crawford - The Cosmic Alchemy of That Hideous Strength

447 - Annie Crawford - The Cosmic Alchemy of That Hideous Strength

In this conversation with Annie Crawford, we explore the role of alchemy in C.S. Lewis’ That Hideous Strength. While alchemy is often dismissed as occult or irrelevant, Lewis uses its symbolism in a p...

21 Apr 29min

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