Robinson's Podcast20 Jul 2025

255 - Michael Hudson: Trump, China, AI, and the Untold History of Economics

Michael Hudson is Distinguished Research Professor of Economics at the University of Missouri, Kansas City and President of the Institute for the Study of Long-Term Economic Trends. He researches domestic and international finance, the history of economics, and the role of debt in shaping class stratification, among many other topics. This is Michael’s fifth appearance on the show. He was also a guest on episode 180, where he and Robinson discussed neoliberalism, industrial capitalism, and the rentier economy, and on episode 198, where they discussed Marxism, economic parasites, and contemporary debt cancellation. He has also joined with Richard Wolff. In this episode, Michael and Robinson discuss how the Crusades shaped the future of economics, the role of economics in political history, the current budget of the Republicans, problems with social security, the effects of AI on economics, and more. Michael’s most recent book is Temples of Enterprise (ISLET, 2024).

Michael’s Website: https://michael-hudson.com

Temples of Enterprise: https://a.co/d/a3c53dm

OUTLINE

00:00:00 Introduction

00:00:37 Why Historians Missed How the Crusades Shapes Economics

00:10:39 What Motivated the Crusades?

00:20:09 The Problem of Financing Wars

00:29:23 How The Roman Catholic Church Invented Financial Interest

00:40:08 Importing Jewish Merchants to England

00:45:12 The Intolerance of the Catholic Church

00:48:51 The Origin of Roman Catholic Indulgences

00:58:39 Using Indulgences to Finance the Crusades

01:05:54 Neglecting the Role of Economics in Political History

01:15:43 Finance as the Central Planning Power of Governments

01:18:17 What’s Wrong with the Republicans’ Budget?

01:19:48 The Dark Problem with Social Security

01:26:40 The Conflict Between Finance and Democracy

01:37:19 How the 1 Percent Don’t Contribute to the Economy

01:38:40 How Will AI Impact the Future of Economics?

01:45:55 How Will AI Affect Unemployment Rates?

01:54:18 Will the 1 Percent Need People in an AI Future

01:58:32 How Will AI Affect the Future of Academia?

02:08:59 Papal Financial Control vs The IMF

02:19:37 How the Government Favors the Creditor over the Debtor

02:23:42 The Difference Between the Chinese and American Economies

02:32:37 Global Warming’s Devastating Effects on the Economy

Robinson’s Website: http://robinsonerhardt.com

Robinson Erhardt researches symbolic logic and the foundations of mathematics at Stanford University.

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