Interview with Helen Lewis on culture wars and religion, that Jordan Peterson interview, and gurus generally

This episode is about sense-making... if you are not sick of that term yet, trust us, you soon will be.To get things rolling, Matt and Chris launch the podcast with a pair of rants. Chris vents about the lab-leak theorists who plague his mentions and Matt gets triggered by US libertarian takes on the military dictatorship apparently taking over Australia. He needs to get his thoughts out there before the secret police come and drag him away.Then we get the point (relatively quickly this time - see, we're getting better!) and leap into a truly indulgent level of sense making meta dialogue. Matt and Chris talk about a conversation between David Fuller and Jordan Hall, who are themselves discussing another conversation that Jordan Hall had with someone called Brandon Hayes.Yes, in this episode, you'll be listening to a conversation about a conversation about a conversation. It's like a podcast version of Inception, including a large amount of ponderous and ambiguous dialogue - you'll have to dig deeper, engage your sense making muscles, and it'll maybe make sense once it's all over.Anyway, so Brandon Hayes is a 'Propertarian', which appears to be an anti-semitic, ethnonationalist 'philosophy' with fascist and eugenic elements created by an odd American man called Curt Doolittle, . Cool, cool... David Fuller is raising some very legitimate concerns, and pulling Jordan Hall up on what seemed to be a rather generous and pally interview he conducted with Brandon. But it's Jordan's responses that really sparked the interest of the duo. He responds and explains. Or does he? There's a lot of reflections on the co-participatory seeking of Truth, the importance of the conversational process, the transformative nature of challenging relationships, but no real interest in the actual content of what people believe and promote. In this framing, a conversation with an anti-semite who promotes a neo-fascistic ideology becomes primarily just a stepping stone on a spiritual journey of transformative self-growth.As Jordan says, the literal content is just the superficial pitter-patter on the neocortex. But he's interested in something deeper, ineffable. The language Jordan uses is a tour-de-force in guru-esque 'sensemaking'. In a linguistic sense, he's like the bastard lovechild of Jordan Peterson and Eric Weinstein. Anyway if that sounds good to you then tune in, check it out, and if you manage to stick it out all the way to the end you are rewarded by Chris and Matt mulling over the validity of a harsh one-star review.LinksInterview featured on the Episode on Rebel Wisdom: 'Sensemaking, Gatekeeping & the Propertarians, Jordan Hall'Very good and highly critical Medium Article on the topic by David Fuller

11 Sep 20212h 12min

The Weinstein brothers have been busy bees over the past few weeks/months(!) and it left Matt and Chris with a conundrum. How do they cover them as part of an intro segment without it turning into a five hour podcast? The solution was to make a two hour stand alone special episode purely dedicated to exploring the wonders (and shivering at the occasional horrors) as we try to map the terrain of Weinstein World. To help us navigate the alien geography and provide a 'relatively normal person' sanity check we have enlisted the help of the famed psychologist, David Pizarro, also known for co-hosting Very Bad Wizards (a small, upcoming ghost-hunting/philosophy podcast).Together with David we decode ancient mysteries, like why does Eric always wear a jacket?, we solve deep existential puzzles, like whether vodka can cure all conflicts, and we ponder heretofore unimagined possibilities, like how successful an audiobook of Fifty Shades of Grey read by Sam Harris and Heather Heying would be.So we hope you will join us on this exploration and remember our core message: *You do not have to promote anti-vaccine rhetoric & unproven miracle cures during a global pandemic*LinksVery Bad Wizards(!): David's excellent podcast hosted with philosopher Tammler SommersVery Bad Wizards Episode 191: All the RageRebel Wisdom interview with Eric Weinstein: Vaccines, Ivermectin & Dark HorseRebel Wisdom: Better Skeptics for the Dark HorseRebel Wisdom: Yuri Deigin Responds to Bret Weinstein on Vaccines, Ivermectin & QuilletteBret and Heather 92nd DarkHorse Podcast Livestream: The Blankest SlateClaire Berlinski & Yuri Deigin's Article on Quillette: Looking for COVID-19 ‘Miracle Drugs’? We Already Have Them. They’re Called VaccinesArticle on Medium by David Fuller: On Vaccine Safety, Ivermectin and the Dark Horse Podcast: An Investigation

27 Aug 20212h 1min

Gad Saad is a Professor of Marketing at Concordia University, author of The Consuming Instinct and, more recently, The Parasitic Mind: How Infectious Ideas Are Killing Common Sense. Self described as the 'Gadfather' with a podcast called the Saad Truth, he's certainly well versed in puns on his name. But is Prof. Saad the true Godfather of evolutionary consumption as he claims? or is he more of a Fredo, perpetually getting passed over for other Gurufathers?Gad is worried about parasitic brain worms that are influencing people's politics, though this affliction seems to correlate pretty strongly with all the liberal political views that Gad dislikes. Indeed, you won't find any discussion of MAGA or QAnon in his extensive bestiary of the pernicious brain-worms that can parasitise your mind. Rather it is 'Trump Derangement Syndrome' that has Gad fretting. But it isn't all partisan politics, we also get to see Gad draws on his knowledge of evolutionary psychology and unparalleled 'surgical' satirical skills to 'castrate' his opponents. Get ready for a string of anecdotes in which Gad destroys postmodern ideologues with facts and logic, embarrasses pigeon brained academics, and teaches his soccer coach the true meaning of freedom... and then everyone stood up and called!LinksVaccine: The Human Story (Recommended Podcast!)Great thread on conspiracy theories and Gurus on TwitterTimbah on Toast's YouTube Documentary on Tim PoolGad Saad: The Death of Truth and How to Revive it: Modern Wisdom Podcast Ep. 217

20 Aug 20212h 43min

This week we welcome the author, journalist, and podcaster Robert Wright. Robert wrote the popular (and provocative!) book 'Why Buddhism is True' and has hosted many interesting discussions and debates at bloggingheads.tv, which he co-founded.We had a wide ranging discussion that touched on a vast array of topics including: the Weinsteins & their relative crackpot ratings, alternative & Mainstream media ecosystems and how they feed into guruism, what are gurus anyway (and are they all bad), Sam Harris and cognitive biases, whether Bob is a Buddhist Modernist, the extent to which meditation is a form of cultural conditioning, if wokism is really taking over America, and whether Matt & Chris' actually hate evolutionary psychology or not.Robert offers a unique perspective, displays a lot of good humour and patience, and indulges our ongoing fetishism of self deprecation culture. So join us for a suitably meandering Irish-Aussie-Americo conversation that involves only the prescribed amount of mutual backpatting!P.S. We promise the Gad Saad episode is coming soon!LinksBob's Book 'Why Buddhism is True''Is Eric Weinstein a Crackpot' on Bob's Non-zero SubstackBob's Interview with Tim Nguyen for The Wright ShowBob's article for Wired on Sam Harris & Tribalism (the one that got him cut off!)The Crackpot Index by John Baez

13 Aug 20211h 40min

We class up the podcast this week with another special interview with a philosopher specialising in Asian philosophical traditions, cognitive science, and philosophy of mind.In our discussion with Evan we address the reception and presentation of Buddhism in the West, whether it is accurate to describe it as a mind science, and how 'Buddhist modernism' is related to Buddhist exceptionalism. We also get into debates of the nature of Self and whether Sam Harris is correct to claim that modern cognitive science has confirmed the insights from Buddhism.This is not an episode targeting the tradition of Buddhism but rather an examination of a specific (modern) manifestation of Buddhism that is particularly popular in the West (and has long been a topic of fascination for Chris!).So join us to distill the real teachings of the Buddha and hear how our ramblings are confirmed by 2,500 years of introspective mind science!LinksEvan's (excellent) book: 'Why I am not a Buddhist'An engaging debate between Robert Wright & Evan ThompsonAmerican Philosophical Association Newsletter with a Book Symposium on 'Why I am not a Buddhist'Interesting debate betwen Sam Harris and Evan Thompson on whether Sam is promoting Buddhist Modernism (paywalled)

30 Jul 20211h 18min

In the second instalment of the personal gurus season we take a look at Matt's childhood science guru: the famed astronomer and science communicator Carl Sagan. Sagan's regarded as an intellectual hero amongst skeptics and supporters of science but is the admiration warranted or is this a halo effect enhanced by youthful innocence and the distorting mists of time? Was Matt's first science crush justified? Is Carl as 'right on' as popular sentiment suggests? Join us as we struggle to peer into the vast abyss, stare deep into the heart of the guru constellation, and uncover the truth. It's time to take a long hard look at a small sliver of our demon haunted, pale blue dot. Along the way we address the burning issues including: whether Carl Sagan is actually a woke cuck, how Chris feels about chimpanzees in lipstick, if humility might actually be a good thing, and whether the universe was actually created for rocks.So join us as we return to a simpler time, when scientists wore turtleneck sweaters, ill advised tweets were not yet possible, and gurus were REAL gurus.Also featured in this week's episode: Weinstein Watch, Viewer Feedback, the Next Guru Announcement, and an illustration of how to provide an even tempered & measured response to critical feedback.LinksCarl Sagan's 1994 'lost' lecture: The Age of ExplorationSagan's Final Interview with Charlie Rose

23 Jul 20212h 13min

In this episode we have an engaging discussion with Daniel Harper host of the anti-fascist podcast 'I Don't Speak German' about his experience covering the Far Right and what constitutes responsible engagement/coverage of various online figures.We cover the role of political perspectives when examining online figures, the use of social media by far right figures, and the use and abuse of political categories. We also cover some potential criticisms with the DTG approach and in so doing answer an eternal question of the ages: 'Are we the baddies?'Join us for a fun discussion while accepting our apologies for the self-indulgence of an episode that, to some extent, involves us talking about... ourselves. We will be back with a full Guru episode very soon!LinksI Don't Speak German PodcastEpisode 88 of IDSG Podcast: The Long Shadow of New Atheism, with Eiynah Mohammed-Smith

14 Jul 20211h 27min

Amanda Montell is an author, linguist, and podcaster with a new book 'Cultish' on "how cultish groups from Jonestown and Scientology to SoulCycle and social media gurus use language" to manipulate followers and cultivate power.In the interview she offers fantastic insights that cover not only guru linguistics but also the social dynamics of modern cults and 'cultish' phenomenon. We learnt a lot from Amanda and hope you will too!LinksAmanda's WebsiteCultish: The Language of FanaticismSounds like a Cult Podcast

2 Jul 20211h 1min