#188 Playing the Developer Job Search Game to Win in 2025 with Danny Thompson & Leon Noel

#188 Playing the Developer Job Search Game to Win in 2025 with Danny Thompson & Leon Noel

For this week's interview, we've got a special treat. I'm talking with two legends in the self-taught developer community.

Danny Thompson worked for 10 years at a Tennessee gas station, frying chicken for people to eat, sometimes working 80 hour weeks just to provide for his family. And yet, Danny had ambition. He taught himself to code using freeCodeCamp. He built his network through local tech events. And eventually, he landed his first job as as software developer. He's since worked at tech companies like Google.

Leon Noel grew up with everyone telling him he had to become a doctor, lawyer, or dentist. He skipped college, taught himself programming, and had a successful exit with a startup. Leon then turned his attention to helping folks who were struggling during the pandemic. He started 100Devs, a charity which has helped thousands of people learn to code.

Danny and Leon run the Programming Podcast which you can find in the podcast player freeCodeCamp iPhone or Android app, along with other podcasts we recommend.

The following 45 minute conversation is almost entirely focused on the developer job market - perfect if you're looking to getting a new job.

You'll learn common misconceptions people have about Résumés, Recruiters, Applicant Tracking Systems, Knock Out Questions and more. We also talk about the Commit Your Code conference happening September 25 and 26 here in Dallas. Tickets are super cheap and all proceeds go to charity. I'll be there and I hope you'll be there, too.

A massive thank you to every single on of the 10,706 kind folks who support freeCodeCamp through a monthly donation. Join these kind folks and help our charity and our mission by going to https://donate.freecodecamp.org/

Links from our conversation:
- The Commit Your Code Conference: https://www.commityourcode.com/
- The Programming Podcast (listen in the freeCodeCamp iPhone / Android app)
- Danny on X/Twitter: https://x.com/DThompsonDev
- Leon on X/Twitter: https://x.com/leonnoel

News items:

freeCodeCamp just published a handbook that will help you learn about AI-assisted coding, straight from a software engineer who's maintained freeCodeCamp's platform and infrastructure for the past 7 years. Mrugesh was initially skeptical of AI tools but has recently used them to great effect. And he wrote this handbook to help you do the same. He says experienced developers can complete tasks faster with AI assistance. But they need to know how to use these tools effectively. And they also need strong foundational programming skills. This handbook is a no-nonsense guide to emerging tools and best practices. (full-length handbook): https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/how-to-become-an-expert-in-ai-assisted-coding-a-handbook-for-developers/

freeCodeCamp also published a course on building your own AI agent from scratch using Python. You'll implement the agentic loop. Then you'll endow your agent with the ability to read, write, and execute code. Finally, you'll supervise your agent as it goes through and makes fixes to an intentionally buggy codebase. (3 hour YouTube course): https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/build-an-ai-coding-agent-in-python/

The freeCodeCamp community also just published our first-ever Mandarin Chinese course. It's aimed at absolute beginners. It'll teach you fundamentals of the language and help you prepare for the standardized HSK exam. As you may recall, we've published beginner courses on Spanish and German as well. We eventually hope to have courses on a wide range of world languages at many levels of proficiency. I started learning Mandarin 23 years ago and I can tell you this course just scratches the surface. But it should be a good starting point for you if you're curious. (11 hour YouTube course): https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/learn-mandarin-chinese-for-beginners-full-hsk-1-level/

Learn the graph algorithms that power Netflix's video recommendation engine and Google Maps' routing logic. This Python tutorial will introduce you to Breadth-First Search, Depth-First Search, Dijkstra’s Algorithm, and other key computer science concepts. It includes plenty of code examples to help you understand these powerful programming structures. (20 minute read): https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/graph-algorithms-in-python-bfs-dfs-and-beyond/

This week I read a pretty well researched article on the role of AI codegen in actually getting things done as a developer. The author has more than 25 years of experiencing building software. And he argues that if AI tools really gave devs a big productivity boost, we should see this in the numbers. Specifically, shovelware, which is essentially fast, cheap software projects. And he says we don't really see this. Github repo creation is flat, apple and android app store registration is flat, domain name registration is flat. So he argues these tools aren't actually helping people write code faster and it's just marketing hype. I definitely recommend you read the article after this podcast and I've included a link to it in the description. https://mikelovesrobots.substack.com/p/wheres-the-shovelware-why-ai-coding

Since we're likely in a AI investment bubble, this week's song of the week is a "Bubble Life" from Squarepusher's 2006 album Hello Everything. Some amazing synth patches in this, and a tasty bass solo with tons of ghost notes and a heaping serving of chromaticism. Link's in the description. Listen to it after the podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUpSAzUN5Vg

Episoder(100)

#97 Disney Data Scientist Eric Leung on Math, Medicine, and Learning to Code

#97 Disney Data Scientist Eric Leung on Math, Medicine, and Learning to Code

Eric Leung grew up in Oklahoma and learned a lot of math in high school. His friends wanted to go to medical school and he originally planned to join them. But instead he got interested in the emerging field of bioinformatics – math applied to medicine. After 6 years in graduate school, he made the big decision to leave without completing his Ph.D. But he was able to transition into the field of data science, and he now works as a data scientist at Disney. Eric and I met up at a public library here in Dallas, Texas to talk about his journey into data science, including his time spent learning through freeCodeCamp and ultimately contributing to our open source codebase. We also share our love of the US public library system, where we met to record this and where Eric worked when he was younger. And we talk about the ancient board game of Go. If you dig this podcast, you should leave us a review in whichever podcast player you're listening. It helps more people discover the show. Download some of our previous podcasts to your phone so you'll have something to listen to the next time you're offline. And tell your friends. Let's inspire more folks to learn to code and build careers for themsleves in tech.   Eric Leung's freeCodeCamp articles: https://www.freecodecamp.org/news/author/erictleung/ Eric on Twitter: https://twitter.com/erictleung The Standup Maths Minecraft Speed Run Cheating Scandal we talk about during the show: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ko3TdPy0TU The AlphaGo documentary about Deep Mind's efforts to conquer the ancient game of Go: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXuK6gekU1Y XKCD comic on when to automate things: https://xkcd.com/1205/ Math for Programmers book: https://www.manning.com/books/math-for-programmers Street Fighting Math MIT course: https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/18-098-street-fighting-mathematics-january-iap-2008/

15 Sep 20232h 16min

#96 Learning to Code in your 30s with Patrick San Juan

#96 Learning to Code in your 30s with Patrick San Juan

Today I'm joined by Patrick San Juan, a software engineer who first learned to code in his 30s. I've known Patrick since the early days of freeCodeCamp. He has always been a positive, supportive force within the community. Patrick grew up the son of first-generation immigrants from the Philippines. His family didn't have much money, and what they did have, they plowed into his education. He studied economics at the University of California at Santa Cruz, then went to work at a charity focused on helping underserved youth. After 5 years, Patrick decided to transition into a career where he could better support his family. And for him, that meant learning to code. I hung out with Patrick at the Alameda Public Library, in the San Francisco Bay Area where Patrick lives. We talk about the ups and downs of his journey into tech. Patrick doesn't sugarcoat anything. Getting a job as a developer is hard. But he's proof that with sustained effort, you can build a career for yourself in tech. I'm proud of Patrick and his achievements. And I'm proud to be the first person to ever interview him for a podcast. If you dig this podcast, be sure to leave us a review. And tell your friends about this show. Let's inspire more folks to learn to code and build careers for themsleves in tech. Patrick on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/patricksanjuan/

8 Sep 20231h 3min

#95 Automate Your Job Then Keep Climbing with Malindi Colyer

#95 Automate Your Job Then Keep Climbing with Malindi Colyer

Today I'm joined by Malindi Colyer. Among her many skills, she's a Python developer and AI engineer. Malindi grew up on a farm in rural Kansas, in the middle of the US. She trained to become a diplomat, and volunteered overseas. But along the way, she discovered a love of math and computer science. That passion has landed her jobs in New York City, London, and San Francisco. I met up with Malindi in downtown Manhattan to learn all about investment banking, and how she modernized her department at JP Morgan using her software engineering skills. We talk about the high-stakes world of global finance, where she was executing trades sometimes worth hundreds of millions of dollars. We also talk about her time as a venture capitalist. She researched thousands of startups to decide which ones her fund should invest in. This is one of the most technical interviews I've done. I've done my best to make Malindi's world of math, AI, and high finance as accessible as I can. I hope you enjoy it. Malindi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexandra-malindi-colyer-46b95589/

1 Sep 20232h 40min

#94 Killing Cancer with Machine Learning feat. Dr. Amit Deshwar

#94 Killing Cancer with Machine Learning feat. Dr. Amit Deshwar

#94 Killing Cancer with Machine Learning with Dr. Amit Deshwar  Today I'm joined by Dr. Amit Deshwar. He uses machine learning to discover new drugs to cure various diseases including cancer. He's a scientist who works in the growing field of Computational Biology, and has risen through the ranks at the Canadian biotech company Deep Genomics. During College, Amit got two internships at Google as a platform engineer. He then decided rather than working in big tech he wanted to go back to school and get his Ph.D. He studied Electrical Engineering and Computer Engineering at the University of Toronto, and had his work published in Nature, one of the most prestigious scientific journals. I met up with Amit at the Glen Park library in San Francisco, at the exact table where the FBI arrested notorious Slik Road Darknet marketplace founder Ross Ulbricht.  We talk about how scientists and developers use machine learning to speed up drug discovery. I ask him a lot of my totally naive questions about how these therapies work and how they can fight various types of cancer and other diseases. Photo of Amit arresating me at the Glen Park Library where the FBI arrested Ross Ulbright: https://drive.google.com/file/d/15B8HD4SGErnOd8zA-9gYW2MabAQFG58Q/view?usp=sharing Photo of me arresting Amit:  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OWyaVyzqT8YgLFYUVi5kqY9te6ShSdgr/view?usp=sharing Amit on Google Scholar: https://scholar.google.com/citations?hl=en&user=QGCYxysAAAAJ Amit's Twitter: https://twitter.com/amitdeshwar

25 Aug 20231h 37min

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