EP 116: Paul Robinson — Coming Back From Injuries, Opening Up About Autism, and Working Boulders Top Down

Natasha Barnes is a former professional climber, a national powerlifting champion, and a licensed chiropractor who specializes in strength training and rehabilitation for rock climbers. We talked about gaining weight to climb harder, calorie balance, common misconceptions about strength training, on and off seasons, tissue capacity, and rehabbing finger injuries.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/natasha-barnes  Nuggets:  2:22 – Yosemite bouldering, ground-up ascents, and favorite boulder problems  5:04 – Natasha’s current climbing  6:28 – Gunning for state records in Power Lifting  9:11 – Competing, and the mindset of practicing at meets  11:55 – Natasha’s career as a pro climber, her  catastrophic finger injury, and struggling to find information on how to rehab  16:44 – Rehabbing the finger in Lost Rocks  18:47 – Shoulder injuries, trying conventional rehab, and turning to strength training  21:25 – Bench press and overhead press for shoulder strength and health  22:46 – Chiropractic school, and using her chiropractic license to do physiotherapy and rehab with clients  23:54 – Strength training for climbing, “being strong is fun”, and Natasha’s path to Power Lifting  27:16 – Gaining weight to climb harder?  31:31 – Disordered eating, and how learning about calorie balance and tracking macros helped Natasha relax about her weight, diet, and food  32:59 – Performance seasons and off-seasons   37:31 – Gaining weight in the off-season, calorie balance, and a case for tracking calories and macros  43:10 – Natasha’s thoughts on protein requirements for athletes  46:18 – Protein, carb, and fat recommendations for boulderers, sport climbers, and trad/alpine climbers   49:03 – Natasha’s favorite Apps for tracking  50:21 – Trends Natasha sees with her clients (almost all are under-eating protein)  51:25 – My (Steven’s) experience with low-carb diets, why Natasha likes the “if it fits your macros” approach, and caveats  59:06 – Clarification about total vs. net carbs  59:38 – Carb timing  1:03:54 – Avoiding excessive alcohol for recovery, and why Natasha doesn’t like to label foods as “bad” or “good”  1:05:30 – What Natasha thinks her ideal climbing weight would be now  1:08:14 – Off-season recommendations  1:10:03 – Addressing misconceptions about strength training, minimum effective dose, and examples of how Natasha programs strength training for climbers  1:12:45 – Neurological strength gains, and strength as a skill  1:14:29 – Why Natasha advocates for compound lifts, and targeting specific weaknesses through climbing practice/training  1:19:01 – The difference between a human body vs a car  1:24:56 – Increasing tissue capacity through training  1:28:00 – Patron Question: What can we do to avoid recurring finger injuries?  1:33:43 – Discomfort during rehab, pushers vs. avoiders, and finding the sweet spot  1:36:48 – My experience with a finger injury, how much time to take off, and lower entry points  1:40:32 – Surgery as a trauma, and better outcomes through movement  1:41:42 – Natasha’s recommended hangboard protocol for training and/or rehab, auto-regulated training, and why you don’t need to train to failure  1:45:28 – “Reps in reserve”, “Effort level”, and gaining autonomy in our training  1:48:41 – Patron Question: Does Natasha have any climbing heroes/role models?  1:51:20 – Gratitude for health  1:52:35 – How to connect with Natasha  1:53:27 – Natasha’s new ‘Foundational Strength for Climbing’ program  1:55:01 – The Power Mullet

24 Aug 20201h 58min

Maya Madere is a 21-year-old comp kid from Austin, TX. We talked about attending school at Stanford and studying computer science, the endurance training program that helped her transition from bouldering to sport climbing, gunning for the 2024 Olympics, competition strategies, outdoor goals, intuitive training and eating, power screams, and windsurfing.  Crafted Energy:  https://www.craftedenergy.com/  Promo Code - CLIMBHARD30 - for 30% off your order!  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/maya-madere  Nuggets:  1:40 – Windsurfing  8:44 – Maya’s transition from comp boulderer to outdoor sport climber  12:06 – How Maya feels about her current climbing  13:29 – Off-season climbing, coronavirus, and taking a break  16:42 – Outdoor climbing vs. training, “quantity over quality”, self-coaching, and doing too much vs. too little. 21:15 – Campusing, endurance training with Solomon Barth, and up-down-ups  24:28 – Up-down-up details  30:00 – Practicing climbing more quickly  32:56 – How Maya mixes endurance with maintaining bouldering strength and power  35:19 – Psicobloc  38:26 – Neverending Story, and why Maya would choose competition climbing over outdoor climbing (if she had to pick one)  41:08 – Where Maya sees her climbing going moving forward  42:14 – Paying her way around the world through competitions, and why it wasn’t sustainable  45:12 – The Boulderfield Master Series, compromise between school and competition rock climbing, and how Maya sees herself in relation to other top competitors  47:37 – Computer Science  50:27 – 2024 Olympics  53:36 – Maya’s most memorable comp, expectations, and why she prefers to be the underdog  57:15 – Making competing routine  59:50 – Practice comps and mock comps  1:02:21 – Breathing exercises and competing and altitude  1:04:45 – Cardio  1:06:54 – Speed climbing, and lead vs. sport  1:08:44 – Diet and weight  1:14:17 – Lifting, systematic vs. intuitive training, and mental energy  1:19:55 – Breakfast, vegetables, and intuitive eating  1:22:42 – Crafted Energy bars  1:24:56 – Dessert  1:26:05 – Maya’s go-to Evolv shoes  1:28:31 – Identifying as an athlete  1:30:18 – Maya’s outdoor and competition goals  1:32:33 – Leisure time, Waldorf school, and crafts  1:34:43 – Gratitude, privilege, and wanting to share  1:38:08 – Instagram, BLM, and using her platform to share information  1:41:33 – Power screams

17 Aug 20201h 48min

Connor Herson is the kid who free climbed ‘The Nose’ at fifteen years old. What most people don’t know is that he is also an incredible sport climber. We talked about his sport climbing goal at age fourteen, his path to free climbing ‘The Nose’, big wall tactics, gear recommendations, headpointing, training power during COVID, recent sends, and future goals on El Cap.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/conner-herson  Nuggets:  2:00 – Breakfast, caffeine, and sleep  3:26 – Connor’s goal at age 14  8:23 – Jailhouse, kneebar pads, the evolution of climbing, and 5.14d  12:53 – Trying ‘Triple Direct’  14:27 – Outgrowing beta on the ‘Changing Corners’ pitch  15:45 – Breakdown of the ‘Triple Direct’ linkup  17:24 – Three-day ascents  19:51 – Warming up for 5.14 straight out of bed and kneebaring the ‘Changing Corners’  22:08 – The path to freeing ‘The Nose’  30:34 – Making up PE class  33:25 – Two nudges from Tommy  38:09 – “If it’s a free route on El Cap it’s a goal.”, building a base of free routes, and thoughts on ‘The Dawn Wall’  40:21 – ‘Broken Arrow’, moderates to build a base, and headpointing tactics  47:55 – Bad landings, safety margins, and sewing up the first 25’ of ‘Broken Arrow’  49:37 – Offset cams, and cams vs. nuts  51:23 – ‘The Green Mile’  54:12 – Power training during shelter-in-place, ‘Throwin’ the Houlihan’, and ‘Surf Safari’  59:48 – Patron Question: Why are so few young climbers pulled towards trad and big walls?  1:05:06 – Patron Question: Connor’s go-to climbing shoes?  1:06:53 – Patron Question: Strategies for dealing with discomfort on big walls? (water, harness, shoes)  1:12:24 – Patron Question: Continue being an “all-rounder” vs. becoming more specialized?  1:14:16 – Jailhouse for training, and “if it’s training it can be contrived.”  1:15:52 – Gratitude  1:17:31 – Connor’s recent two-week trip, and sharing the driving  1:18:53 – Connor’s upcoming trip and goals

10 Aug 20201h 23min

Tyson Schoene has been the head coach of the Vertical World Climbing Team in Seattle, WA for nearly 20 years, and has shaped some of the best climbers in the world including Drew Ruana, Sean Bailey, and Quinn Mason. We talked about Tyson’s path to coaching, how he and his team build world-class athletes, the value of competition, climbing team as a family, and drills all of us can practice.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/tyson-schoene   Nuggets:   2:37 – Viento, the resurgence of old forgotten crags, and surfing trips   6:22 – Coaching during COVID, missing the kids, and home walls  9:52 – Embracing downtime, training for adversity, and moving forward with new ideas  12:48 – Feeling privileged and prepared, feeling bored, and struggles with purposelessness and the social climate without a support group during the pandemic  16:56 – Being born in Seattle, Tyson’s parents as climbers, early climbing, and the pull of the lycra  21:20 – Other sports and passions, early competing, early coaching, seeing himself in the kids  26:46 – Climbing with the kids and learning from the kids  30:24 – Why Tyson feels like he never realized his full potential, and why he wouldn’t trade his impact on the kids for being a 5.15 climber  33:51 – The benefits of competition  43:18 – Being competitive vs. being a good competitor  46:11 – Working with Drew to get better at reachy moves  53:36 – Why shorter kids tend to become better climbers  54:30 – How Tyson knew he could push Drew to the edge, the athlete/coach relationship as a two-way street, and adapting to your athletes  58:38 – Hiring coaches from climbing team, traits that make good coaches, and giving back to the team  1:06:27 – Repetition, traversing, patience, and the primary things adults are missing as new climbers  1:14:06 – Efficiency, what makes the best climbers look the best, and why easy movement (i.e. ARCing) is relevant for someone trying to break into 5.14  1:19:44 – Circuits for power endurance, drawing from track and field, learning through experience, and spray walls  1:26:19 – Programming circuits  1:28:14 – Easy circuits vs. easy traversing and ARC training, balancing endurance training w/ power, and why Tyson expects training to change in the next ten years  1:33:44 – More on ARC training, Tyson’s (amazing) adult client, and why Tyson generally prefers working with kids vs. adults  1:36:05 – Tyson’s thoughts on why climbers should train both for sport climbing and bouldering to be the best possible athlete  1:39:27 – Patron Question: Power endurance exercises to break into 5.12?  1:42:29 – Other factors to consider when it seems like power endurance is our limiting factor  1:43:37 – Climbing with three fingers (IMR open) to conserve energy  1:48:30 – Pinkies  1:49:04 – Patron Question: Favorite App for spray wall?  1:50:49 – Taping circuits on the spray wall for members and for the kids  1:52:50 – Patron Question: What was it like competing before competition climbing was popular?  1:55:26 – Shirts, normalizing greatness, and the Vertical World family  2:03:41 – Gratitude   2:06:05 – Drills: Heals only  2:10:50 – Drills: Fives  2:17:27 – Thousands of drills, leadership skills, and emotional detachment  2:20:35 – Proud of the kids

3 Aug 20202h 23min

Blake Cason is a mindfulness and work/life balance coach, and the founder of Pivot Wellness. We talked about bringing awareness to our relationship with climbing, practicing radical honesty, ways of strengthening the mindfulness muscle, cycling priorities, and ways that both Blake and I have struggled to find balance between work and climbing. Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/blake-cason  Nuggets:  2:01 – The first time Blake jugged a line, choss in the Canadian Rockies, and supporting Mike on ‘The Shining Uncut’8:19 – Intentionally showing up to support another person in climbing9:58 – The relationship sandbox, and play and responsibility13:53 – Common issues/areas that Blake works on with her clients and climbers16:34 – Beauty in doing things that don’t have a point, and being out of alignment with what motivates us vs. what we’re actually doing20:24 – “Shoulds”, guideposts, and self-imposed suffering23:33 – Radical honesty, “is that working”, and slowing down28:12 – Finding mindfulness through climbing, and her climbing relationship as a barometer32:11 – Tuning into your body and your breath to return to the present moment34:14 – Focusing on the breath, and code-switching35:52 – Training the mindfulness muscle 39:43 – The practical use of mindfulness, and how to bring mindfulness to reflecting on the past or envisioning the future42:50 – Mindfulness applied to climbing performance, “paying attention”, and finding language that resonates44:57 – Savoring, loosening the grip, tapping into a growth mindset, and getting the whole brain firing 53:04 –  Self-limiting beliefs, “Is being attached to that belief working?”, and the research behind the importance of self-compassion58:28 – The brain-body connection, “abort mission”, and punting1:01:18 – ‘Joe Six Pack’, recognizing a need, and choosing to walk away (for now)1:05:31 – How Blake would work with a client who struggles with fear1:12:59 – My (Steven’s) struggle with balancing the podcast with my own climbing and expectations1:16:49 – Cycling priorities, and how Blake cycles her focus between her own climbing and her business, and values vs. priorities1:23:56 – Using inspiration as a guide for priorities1:25:57 – Zooming out1:32:13 – Gratitude1:32:55 – The area of mindfulness that Blake is working on currently1:37:31 – Where to connect with Blake and how you can work with her1:40:28 – Take a breath1:42:49 – My free life coaching session, and send us questions!

27 Jul 20201h 46min

Audrey Sniezek is a software engineer for Microsoft and a former professional climber. We talked about her beginnings in both computer science and climbing, becoming a morning person, her 4 a.m. warmup routine, starting a climbing gym near the Red River Gorge, coaching in China, self-talk for confidence, and her most recent 5.14a.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:   http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/audrey-sniezek  Nuggets:  1:58 – Peanut butter sandwiches, being a finisher of things, the lunch crux, and dry salads  5:48 – Timex computers, studying computer science, and turning down Microsoft  10:22 – Temporary job with Microsoft, REI, and “is there any climbing in Washington?”  12:43 – Bigger and scarier, improving by climbing a lot, lead climbing and pushing personal boundaries  14:21 – Flexibility with work, squeezing in climbing, and “I’m only as transparent as I need to be.”  16:03 – Alpine style sport climbing, and becoming a morning person  17:55 – Audrey’s morning warmup routine  20:58 – Making the most of morning sessions, swapping days, and finding a COVID pandemic buddy  23:45 – Waking up extra early to send ‘Lost Horizons’, and commuting to and from climbing  25:41 – The corporate boomerang, living in a van to climb full time, preferring to stay places longer, and Audrey’s current trifecta  28:58 – Fitness training, healthcare, why Audrey came back to a corporate job after freelancing, and building trust to achieve a better work/life balance  34:11 – A shift in company culture due to COVID  37:15 – A home in Vegas, and starting a gym in near the  Red River Gorge  40:34 – Starting a computer science program at the Beattyville high school, and how the Beattyville climbing gym came to be  45:22 – Audrey’s vision for the gym, old-school setting, and watching the kids climb  47:28 – William’s stroke  49:37 – How Audrey uses the Beattyville gym and how she balances climbing and training in general  51:50 – Living in China and accidentally becoming a climbing coach  56:53 – Splitting up training and coaching, the language barrier, a teary-eyed farewell, and Audrey’s training legacy  1:00:20 – Audrey’s training session breakdown, Tabata style warmup, technique drills, going back to fundamentals, and training power on easy climbs  1:03:56 – Why Audrey doesn’t do much Moonboarding or hangboarding  1:05:39 – Recent finger injury, slowly getting back into the swing, and missing the “try hard”  1:08:02 – What factors help Audrey “bring it”  1:08:40 – ‘The Sickness’  1:13:48 – ‘Black Plague’, linkups, milking climbs for all they’re worth, and new projects  1:16:39 – Four-year gap between 5.14s, competing in the world cups, and a hamstring injury  1:18:51 – How Audrey sent ‘The Sickness’ without any specific prep  1:20:50 – Trying a 5.14 at Mt. Potosi  1:23:39 – Goals and dreams  1:26:05 – ‘Dr. Evil’, funky beta, and a surprise send  1:31:03 –  “The only thing stopping me is me.”  1:33:32 – 5.14 (or 5.15) in her 50s, “am I a machine”, and trying things sooner rather than later  1:34:32 – How’s Audrey training changed in her 40s, her own fitness and training resources  1:36:57 – What Audrey wishes she had known in her 20’s, confidence, and “I belong here”  1:39:45 – Self-talk, the piece of paper, and “I’m capable.”  1:41:43 – Low confidence, building yourself up, and reminding yourself that you create your results  1:42:41 – Gratitude, heartbreak, and community  1:45:06 – The victory cone

20 Jul 20201h 50min

Ben Herrington is a professional route setter and likely Washington’s most prolific boulderer. We talked about why Ben performs best as a “weekend warrior”, his three go-to training sessions, mistakes he sees other boulderers making, climbing vs. skateboarding, his history with drug abuse and addiction, the path to sobriety, some of his most meaningful FAs, and V15 potential in Washington.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/ben-herrington  Nuggets:  1:56 – Feeling aimless without work, missing purpose, and the subtle curse of being a full-time climber  4:09 – Skatingboarding vs. climbing: mastering, achieving, and style  7:37 – Ben’s three climbing categories (strength, technique, and try hard) and which one holds him back  9:31 – Practicing “try hard” with a three-try limit  10:31 – Skateboard culture, proving your right to be there, and “success days” vs. “training days”  12:30 – Why Ben feels like he performs best as a weekend warrior  13:38 – Ben’s three go-to indoor sessions  14:52 – The Sharma philosophy: flash or limit  15:42 – Ben’s “Strength Day”  17:24 – Why Ben prefers climbing other people’s hard boulders, wanting to be good at every style, the ego beatdown of changing styles, and The Red vs. Smith  21:21 – Why hard climbing isn’t type-1 fun, and why the variety in climbing appealed to Ben so much after skating  22:40 – Ben’s strength/power bouldering session length, gym climbing vs. outdoor climbing in terms of weight lifting, and gym climbing because it’s fun  25:54 – “Medium Day”, “Endurance Day”, and the benefits of down climbing for fitness  27:44 – Transfering sport climbing fitness back to bouldering, and climbing ‘The Reckoning’  29:11 – St. George bouldering vs. sport climbing, and expanding your horizons to have more 5-star lines to do  31:09 – Ben’s interest in trad/mixed climbing, and the routes that pull at him most  33:03 – The fun vs. suffering spectrum, and “everybody knows what it takes, they just have to be willing to do it.”  34:51 – What motivated Ben when he was younger vs. now  37:04 – Ben’s oppositional strength training routine,  training front levers once every two weeks, and the evolution of Ben’s core training  39:48 – How Ben can tell if a climber has good core strength, and the importance of core strength for hard climbing  40:38 – Training Front Levers, plank variations, and the feeling of being wrecked  42:37 – Lack of training consistency due to COVID, the approach of summer, and missing the climbing gym  44:55 – Ben’s weekly climbing schedule, and always taking Friday off  45:26 – 14 years sober, addiction to pain pills, and how Ben got started in climbing  49:19 – Obsessive-compulsive behavior, losing friends and his dad to drugs, moving to WA to get sober, and early bouldering in Leavenworth  55:27 – The obsessed bug  57:04 – Exploring for new routes, and bolting ‘Imagine’  1:03:41 – Cleaning and climbing ‘Imagine’ during quarantine  1:06:31 – John Lennon’s ‘Imagine’, the setting, the rock, and everything you’d want in a route  1:07:53 – The story behind ‘Inception’ (Ben’s favorite FA)  1:11:00 – Ben’s early progression in climbing, the “spurge and plateau”, and filling out the repertoire  1:12:54 – Some of the best hard boulders in WA, Newhalem bouldering, and endangered moss  1:15:58 – V15 potential in WA  1:17:45 – Ben’s ideal boulder condition for NW granite, giving credit to “the cracking” of a sequence or boulder problem, and the challenge of grading FAs  1:19:33 – What holds back climbers in the gym  1:21:38 – What holds back climbers when projecting outdoors  1:23:26 – How Ben decides whether to keep trying a climb, optimism vs. pessimism, and ‘Singularity’  1:26:52 – Gratitude  1:27:30 – Missing the gym  1:28:25 – Ben’s plans for the summer, and chasing conditions  1:32:24 – Ben’s Instagram, his recent Squamish video (that you should all watch—see show notes), and not knowing where to post climbing content  1:34:46 – Ben’s latest skate trick project, and influencing kids at the skate park

13 Jul 20201h 41min

Nathan Hadley is a professional route setter and an all-around rock climber. We talked about completing the Canadian Alpine Trilogy, the benefits of training using bouldering circuits, how to practice onsighting skills in the climbing gym, establishing the first 5.14 at Index, WA, and the importance of following the psych.  Support on Patreon:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing  Show Notes:  http://thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/nathan-hadley  Nuggets:  2:41 – The Canadian Alpine Trilogy  7:23 – Prep for the Trilogy, bouldering base from route setting, and Nathan’s one-month approach for getting back in sport climbing shape  8:53 – Fontainblaue-style circuit training  12:36 – Why Nathan thinks circuits are more effective than route laps and 4x4s  15:08 – Example two-day per week PE program  18:21 – Low-end endurance  20:52 – Structure in the things that matter  22:15 – Competing at sport climbing nationals, onsighting in Turkey, and sending ‘Scarface’  29:38 – Nathan’s “relaxed approach”  33:39 – Switching modes, listening to your body, and following psyche  35:37 – Onsighting practice in the gym  40:57 – Warming up for hard onsights and entering the right mental space  44:40 – Intentions and guidelines, and why Nathan’s trip to Turkey was so successful  46:15 – FA of ‘En Passant’ (aka Ten Percent Direct)  54:27 – Route setting as prep for ‘En Passant’  55:39 – Outdoor bouldering and getting stronger by climbing bouldery routes and Index  57:05 – Leaving his mark at Index  1:00:00 – Chess and The Fun Triangle  1:02:01 – Route setting with volumes, volumes as tools, and creating a diversity of climbing styles in the gym  1:05:06 – Forerunning as training  1:07:31 – Climbing less, and learning from the experts who know bodies  1:09:26 – Grateful to be working  1:10:24 – ‘Vanishing Point’, looking for a new route on Dolomite Tower, and dreaming of a WA Trilogy  1:22:00 – Nathan’s website

6 Jul 20201h 24min