20VC: Tony Fadell "The Father of The iPod" on Mentors, Self-Doubt, Vulnerability, His Relationship To Money, Why Entrepreneurs Need to Be Coachable, Why VCs Need To Be More Direct & Why The First Trillionaire Will Innovate Around Climate Change
The Twenty Minute VC (20VC): Venture Capital | Startup Funding | The Pitch15 Mar 2021

20VC: Tony Fadell "The Father of The iPod" on Mentors, Self-Doubt, Vulnerability, His Relationship To Money, Why Entrepreneurs Need to Be Coachable, Why VCs Need To Be More Direct & Why The First Trillionaire Will Innovate Around Climate Change

Tony Fadell, often referred to as "the father of the iPod," is currently Principal @ Future Shape, a global investment and advisory firm coaching engineers and scientists working on foundational deep technology. Prior to Future Shape, Tony was the Founder & CEO @ Nest Labs, the company was ultimately acquired by Google for a reported $3.2Bn. Before Nest, Tony spent an incredible 9 years at Apple Inc, where, as SVP of Apple's iPod division, he led the team that created the first 18 generations of the iPod and the first three generations of the iPhone. Fun facts, Tony has filed more than 300 patents for his work and is also a prolific angel investor having invested in the likes of mmhmm and Nothing to name a few.

In Today's Episode With Tony Fadell You Will Learn:

I. The building blocks of an entrepreneur

What was the moment that Tony realised that he wanted to be an entrepreneur?

"I got my first money when I was in third grade, because I had an egg route. We'd go get eggs from the farmer, and I'd load them in my wagon. Then my younger brother and I would go door to door around the neighborhood, and we'd sell eggs. And that was an every week or every other week situation. And I got money in my hands. And I was like, Oh my God, I can do whatever I want with that money – I don't have to ask anybody, I can just do it. And so that was the level of freedom that, especially when you're young, feels really cool. And then as I got older, I started to buy Atari video game cartridges for my 2600 (yes, I'm that old!), and that was really, really fun too."

What was the biggest lesson that Tony learned from his father on sales and building trusted relationships?

"And he said, very clearly, Look, this is a relationship. If I make this person successful, he's gonna want to come back to me over, and over, and over. But if I sell him something and it doesn't sell, and he has to discount and he loses money, he's not going to come back. Even if I don't have the right product, I'll tell him where to go to get the right product they're looking for, or if they're picking the wrong one, I'll tell them, here's the right one, because my job is to make them successful. Because if they're successful, they'll come back to me year after year after year. And even when we have a down year, they're going to trust me, and they're going to come back."

II. Reflections on experience

How does Tony Fadell think about and assess his own relationship to money? How has it changed over the years?

"So my relationship to money now is that it's just a means to make change happen. And so literally, for me, I can just have a backpack, my computer, my phone, a couple of roller bags with my clothes. And that's enough to live life with my family. I don't need all this other stuff. COVID taught me that even further."

How does Tony determine true friendships vs transactional relationships?

"If it's not a reference – if it's not coming from somebody saying, Hey, you really need to meet this person – I take everything with a grain of salt. With anybody who comes to me cold, I think they probably want something. I try to find that out through the network, Do you know this person? What are they about?"

III. Tony Fadell on becoming a mentor

Why does Tony Fadell believe that founders have to be "coachable"?

"I think anybody who's trying to do something that the world has never seen before, or trying to work with people who are, they'd better be coachable. Because you're going to be so narrowly focused, you're going to be so heads down, you're going to be so on a mission, that sometimes you'll be blinded, and you'll need somebody to come from left field and go, Wait a second, dude, you're not thinking about this right."

What are the core signs that an individual is coachable?

  1. Trustworthiness

2. Willingness to listen

What does Tony believe is the right way to deliver advice without fluff?

"First, it's about trust. You have to be able to have a trusted relationship with somebody. And second, there are different ways of delivering a message. You can deliver a message the first time in an iron-fist-in-a-velvet-glove kind of way. But sometimes the velvet glove is going to come off."

How do people make mistakes when giving advice?

"I'm in too many board meetings; we have over 200 investments. I've seen all kinds of different CEOs and different boards, where the investors don't want to feel like they're going to get a bad rep because the CEO is going to say something if they say something negative."

What does Tony Fadell advise founders when it comes to finding mentors?

"Usually, a really great mentor is going to be highly selective. They're going to be like, I don't want to work with you. They only have so much time for people who are actually coachable."

What are the characteristics of the best mentors?

"You're gonna have tough love with them, you're gonna say things that they don't want to hear, you're not going to be liked all the time. Hopefully, one day, you'll be respected if not liked. And that's what it means to be a mentor."

IV. Changing perceptions

How does Tony assess his own relationship to self-doubt?

"Everyone goes through imposter syndrome. Everyone does. We all have gone through it, I go through it. Because you know what, when you're doing stuff you've never done before, and you're changing the world, no one else has done it either. No one else has done it either. That means it's okay. And I always say, if you don't have butterflies in your stomach each day, you're either not paying attention, or you're not pushing hard enough and taking enough risk."

What are Tony's views on failure?

"Now, there's taking stupid risks versus risk mitigation and taking calculated risks. But you should always be living on the edge of pushing yourself because that's where the growth is, that's where the change is happening."

Does one learn more from success than from failure?

"How we do and change the world is through the same method. We go do, and then we fail, and then we learn from that, and then we do again."

What does Tony mean when he says, "do, fail, learn."

"Look, it's do, fail, learn; do, fail, learn. There's no such thing as learn and then you're able to do. No, no, no. When you really learn in life is after you've tried to do it."

What is the right way for entrepreneurs to present their boldest of ambitions?

"Look at Elon now. If he was pitching what he's doing now 15 years ago, people would go, No way! A few people, like Jurvetson and others, said, Yeah, sure, okay, great. But very few people would get behind that huge boldness."

"So what they do is – and this is what I've had to do – they start and just pitch that simple 'What's the next three to four years look like?' and never tell anybody about the big picture. Because you scare most people off."

How do investors need to change how they think about ambition and upside?

5.) Why does Tony believe the first trillionaire will originate from the climate change space? Why is the majority of plastics recycling total BS today? Why does Tony believe we need to fundamentally transform our economies? How do funding markets need to change to fund this structural reshaping of society?

Episoder(1390)

20VC: Lovable Raises at $2BN & Hits $100M ARR | Is Cursor Worth $28BN at $1BN in ARR | How Do All Providers Deal with Anthropic Dependency Risk | Are Seed Funds F******: Have Mega Funds Won | Figma IPO Breakdown: Where Does it Price?

20VC: Lovable Raises at $2BN & Hits $100M ARR | Is Cursor Worth $28BN at $1BN in ARR | How Do All Providers Deal with Anthropic Dependency Risk | Are Seed Funds F******: Have Mega Funds Won | Figma IPO Breakdown: Where Does it Price?

Agenda: 00:00 – Did Jason Just Kill Replit? 03:45 – Why Claude Lies To You and Cannot Be Trusted 06:50 – You Cannot Trust Agents. Period. 10:20 – Why Windsurf Was Dead Without Claude 12:30 – Cursor vs. Lovable: What's the Better Bet? 14:40 – Should You Still Invest in Cursor at $28B? 18:05 – Would You Bet on Anthropic at $100B or OpenAI at $300B? 24:15 – Inside OpenAI's Secret Weapon: The Calvin French-Owen Memo 27:50 – Perplexity Just Crushed ChatGPT and Claude 32:15 – Will Cursor Build Their Own Models Before Anthropic Cuts Them Off? 33:20 – Figma's IPO at $16B: Outrageous or Fair Game? 41:55 – 90% of Seed Funds Are Cooked—Is Rob Go Right? 52:15 – How Often Do You Meet a Founder Who Can Return the Fund? 1:08:00 – Which Seed Fund Would You Back Today?

24 Jul 1h 21min

20VC: Scaling to $1BN+ in Revenue with No Funding: Surge AI | The Most Insane Scaling Story in Tech |

20VC: Scaling to $1BN+ in Revenue with No Funding: Surge AI | The Most Insane Scaling Story in Tech |

Edwin Chen is the Founder and CEO of Surge. Founded in 2020, Surge has scaled to $1BN+ in revenue with zero external funding. At the same time, their competitor, Scale.ai raised over $1.3BN to reach $850M ARR. Today, Surge have the world's largest model providers as customers and have just 120 employees. Agenda: 00:00 — "Everyone Else Is Just a Body Shop" — Edwin Calls Out the Whole Industry 01:05 — Why 90% of Big Tech Is Wasting Time on Useless Problems 03:45 — "I Don't Do 1-on-1s" — How Surge Kills Meetings and Still Moves 10x Faster 05:55 — Will a Single Person Build a $1B Company? 08:10 — 100x Engineers Are Real — Here's How to Spot Them 12:10 — Why Most PhDs Are Useless in AI Training 14:20 — Built to a Billion With Zero VC — Edwin Explains How and Why 17:00 — "No Sales Team, No PR, No BS" — Why Surge Stays in the Shadows 21:15 — The Real Reason AGI Might Take Until 2040 24:45 — Will Synthetic Data Kill Human Labelling? 29:00 — "Academic Benchmarks Are a Scam" 31:05 — Why the Real Bottleneck in AI Isn't Compute or Models — It's THIS 33:00 — What Every AI Company Should Be Asking (But Isn't) 35:15 — "No, I Wouldn't Sell Surge for $100B" 39:00 — Is the Application Layer Doomed? Edwin Predicts the Future of AI Startups 46:30 — Have the Leading Foundation Models Already Been Founded? 48:10 — AGI Could Be Dangerous — And Most People Are Ignoring Why 20VC: Scaling to $1BN+ in Revenue with No Funding: Surge AI | The Most Insane Scaling Story in Tech |

21 Jul 1h 6min

20VC: Cognition CEO Scott Wu on Acquiring Windsurf: The Process, The Deal, The Rationale | Did Google Overlook a Goldmine in the Core Asset and Did Founders Leave a Sinking Ship | How Cursor and Cognition Deal with Ever Increasing Reliance on Anthropic

20VC: Cognition CEO Scott Wu on Acquiring Windsurf: The Process, The Deal, The Rationale | Did Google Overlook a Goldmine in the Core Asset and Did Founders Leave a Sinking Ship | How Cursor and Cognition Deal with Ever Increasing Reliance on Anthropic

Scott Wu is the co-founder and CEO of Cognition, the company behind Devin, the world's first AI software engineer. On Friday last week they pulled off the acquisition of the year, acquiring Windsurf, following their licensing agreement with Google. Previously a world-class competitive programmer, he was a gold medalist at the International Olympiad in Informatics and a member of the U.S. Math and Physics Olympiad teams. Before Cognition, he was a founding engineer at Scale AI, helping shape the early AI infrastructure stack. AGENDA: 00:00 – Why are founders walking away instead of going down with the ship? 01:05 – How did Cognition pull off the $220M Windsurf deal in just 72 hours? 04:45 – What really happened behind closed doors the weekend Windsurf was acquired? 07:15 – Did Google overlook a goldmine in the Windsurf team and IP? 09:00 – Who are the 100 people that secretly shape the future of AI? 12:30 – Can application startups ever gain leverage over foundation model giants like Anthropic? 14:15 – Is coding about to be replaced by simply describing what you want? 17:30 – 50% of new code is AI-written. Where does that go next? 20:45 – "We've gone from 0 to $80M ARR in 6 months. Quietly." 25:00 – Are IDEs and agents just the training wheels for the real future of software engineering? 28:20 – If you could only back one—OpenAI or Anthropic—who's the better bet? 30:00 – Why has Cognition kept its insane growth a secret… until now?

18 Jul 48min

20VC: Windsurf x Google x Cognition: Full Breakdown: Who Made Money, Who Did Not | Lovable vs Replit: Will These Be $100BN Businesses | Why Elon Could Beat Sam Altman with the New Grok | Why Every S&P 500 Company Will Buy Bitcoin?

20VC: Windsurf x Google x Cognition: Full Breakdown: Who Made Money, Who Did Not | Lovable vs Replit: Will These Be $100BN Businesses | Why Elon Could Beat Sam Altman with the New Grok | Why Every S&P 500 Company Will Buy Bitcoin?

Agenda: 00:00 Windsurf was dead—then this deal changed everything 05:00 The Windsurf x Google x Cognition saga explained 09:00 The OpenAI deal collapsed—what really happened 15:00 FTC rules forced a brutal deal structure—who lost? 17:00 The investors' returns: who actually made money? 21:30 Will Google's corp dev team get fired over this? 23:00 Cognition's genius $220M acquisition of Windsurf: Most brilliant Deal of the Year 26:00 The biggest recruiting flex in Silicon Valley this year 35:00 "Roll your own SaaS" is complete nonsense 38:00 Lovable vs Cursor vs Replit: who wins the coding war? 41:00 Why Lovable could be the ChatGPT of builders 44:00 Will these vibe-coded apps become durable businesses? 48:00 The shocking churn rates hidden inside AI SaaS 55:00 Are these $2B valuations actually... cheap? 56:30 Grok just destroyed GPT-4 in benchmarks—WTF?! 01:01:00 Why Grok might overtake OpenAI in the next 12 months 01:11:00 Meta just invested $3.5B in Ray-Bans—WTF? 01:12:30 Should every S&P 500 company buy Bitcoin now? 01:15:00 Will Meta kill open source? What happens to Llama 5?

17 Jul 1h 21min

20VC: Vlad Tenev on Robinhood's $85BN Resurgence | Tokenizing SpaceX & OpenAI | Building Nine Revenue Lines Over $100M | Why Crypto Will Be Robinhood's Biggest Revenue Line | Why Stablecoins Will Replace Banking Rails

20VC: Vlad Tenev on Robinhood's $85BN Resurgence | Tokenizing SpaceX & OpenAI | Building Nine Revenue Lines Over $100M | Why Crypto Will Be Robinhood's Biggest Revenue Line | Why Stablecoins Will Replace Banking Rails

Vlad Tenev is the Founder and CEO of Robinhood, the greatest story on Wall St of the last decade. In the previous 18 months, Robinhood has increased its net revenue by 58% to nearly $3B; a $500M loss in 2023 turned into a $1.1B profit in 2024. Robinhood's stock is up roughly 4x, lifting their market cap to north of $80B. Today, Robinhood has nine lines of business that do over $100M in revenue. Agenda: 00:00 – "Tokenization Is The Biggest Innovation in Finance" 03:28 – How Robinhood 4x'd Its Market Cap in 8 Months 06:40 – AI Writes 50% of All Net New Code at Robinhood 10:02 – Why Robinhood Built a Secret ChatGPT for Support 12:11 – The One Customer Type That Transformed the Business 15:29 – "CoreWeave Is Retail's Way Into AI" — The Meme Stock Defense 18:05 – Inside Robinhood's Tokenized Private Shares Product 21:23 – "Capital as a Service" — Vlad's Wild Vision for Startup Fundraising 24:10 – The $100M Revenue Line Vlad Wishes He Could Kill 26:45 – Robinhood Is Building... Cash Delivery Trucks?! 29:55 – "We Were Shipping Nothing": Vlad on the 2020–2022 Culture Crisis 33:20 – What Line of Business Will Be the Biggest For Vlad in 5 Years Time 35:11 – The One Competitor Vlad Actually Respects 36:55 – From Men's Health to Japanese Toilets: Vlad's Weirdest Quickfire Yet 38:40 – "I Was in the Dumps": What 2022 Taught Vlad About Resilience 40:00 – Where Robinhood Is Headed: The Next Decade of Financial Infrastructure

14 Jul 57min

20Growth: The Death of Growth Teams? | How Hubspot Use AI to Triple Email Conversion | The Future of AI SEO | Why Prompt Engineering is the New Coding | What Every CMO Needs to Know About AI in 2025

20Growth: The Death of Growth Teams? | How Hubspot Use AI to Triple Email Conversion | The Future of AI SEO | Why Prompt Engineering is the New Coding | What Every CMO Needs to Know About AI in 2025

Kieran Flanagan is the CMO at HubSpot, where he's led the transformation of their growth strategy from SEO-led to multi-channel and AI-powered. Formerly SVP of Marketing, he helped scale HubSpot's user base to millions and revenue past $2B. Before HubSpot, he drove breakout growth at Marketo and Salesforce. Kieran is one of the most respected voices in SaaS marketing and a pioneer in growth-driven content strategy. Agenda: 00:03 – The Death of Growth Teams? Kieran's Wild Prediction 06:44 – AI Innovation Pods: The New Org Structure for Startups 10:18 – Email Personalization That Tripled Conversions 13:21 – From Software Budget to Labor Budget: The Shift is Happening 16:35 – The Big Lie: Why Autonomous Agents Still Suck 19:24 – The Secret Sauce Behind HubSpot's Email AI Stack 21:44 – Segment-Based Marketing Is Dead. Enter Micro Audiences. 24:15 – Content Collapse: Why Google Organic Is Getting Torched 30:52 – The Future of AI SEO: 1 Product, 100 Pages, Infinite Prompts 33:16 – Memory = Moat: Why ChatGPT Is Becoming Unbeatable 35:46 – Prompt Engineering is the New Coding: Here's How to Win 41:03 – The Death of the Middle Manager Marketer 46:17 – OpenAI vs. Anthropic: Kieran's $400M Bet 48:00 – Europe Is Falling Behind: The Harsh Truth on Regulation 52:39 – CMO Playbook 2025: Micro-Audiences, Creator-Led, AI at Scale

11 Jul 1h 15min

20VC: Daniel Gross and Nat Friedman: Acquired by Meta | OpenAI's SBC Bombshell: More Stock Comp Than Revenue | Privat Equity is Back: Olo Bought for $2BN | Microsoft Lays Off 9,000 People: Is This Just the Start | Will Sequoia Part with Shaun Maguire

20VC: Daniel Gross and Nat Friedman: Acquired by Meta | OpenAI's SBC Bombshell: More Stock Comp Than Revenue | Privat Equity is Back: Olo Bought for $2BN | Microsoft Lays Off 9,000 People: Is This Just the Start | Will Sequoia Part with Shaun Maguire

Agenda: [00:00] The AI Talent Crisis No One's Ready For [03:00] Daniel Gross and Nat Friedman: Why Two Legendary VCs Walked Away From $1B to Join Meta [12:00] Meta's AI Talent Magnet: Will It Actually Work? [15:00] Cursor Is Breaking the Market: Can Anyone Compete? [18:30] OpenAI's SBC Bombshell: More Stock Comp Than Revenue [22:00] CoreWeave's Power Play: Buying Their Landlords [26:00] Is Circle Next to Go Shopping with Meme Equity? [28:00] PE Is Back: The Olo Take-Private Explained [35:00] Why Triple, Triple, Double, Double Is No Longer Sexy [41:00] QSBS Hack: The Billionaire's Tax Loophole You're Missing [48:00] Microsoft's AI Layoffs: Salespeople Are Dead, Long Live Engineers [50:00] "If You Need a Week to Learn AI, You Should Be Fired" [53:00] Will Sequoia's Sean Maguire Be Pushed Out? Place Your Bets [57:00] Will There Be a Recession in 2025? Jason Bets $75K It's a No [1:00:00] Is Linda Yaccarino Still CEO of X by Year-End? [1:03:00] Circle and CoreWeave's Meme Rally: Real or Mirage?

10 Jul 1h 7min

20VC: Scott Galloway on Are Billionaires Happy & The Impact of Money on Psychology and Self-Worth | Becoming a Better Father & Husband | Why We Should Drink More and Not Work From Home | The Tinder Effect & How it Makes Young Men Radical

20VC: Scott Galloway on Are Billionaires Happy & The Impact of Money on Psychology and Self-Worth | Becoming a Better Father & Husband | Why We Should Drink More and Not Work From Home | The Tinder Effect & How it Makes Young Men Radical

Scott Galloway is a Professor of Marketing at NYU Stern, where he's taught for over two decades. He's the founder of several successful companies, including L2 (acquired by Gartner for over $150M), Red Envelope, and Prophet. He's a New York Times bestselling author of four books on business and tech, and co-hosts the award-winning Pivot podcast. Galloway also serves on the boards of The New York Times Company and Panera, and his public talks have been viewed tens of millions of times globally. In Today's Episode We Discuss: 02:00 – How to Win in a New Economy of AI 06:00 – Should We Break Up Big Tech? 08:00 – Why Young People Have a Right to Be Angry? 11:00 – Why the Tax Code Is Rigged Against the Young 13:00 – Tax Changes That Would Make Young People Rich Again 17:00 – The Tinder Effect: Why Men Are Angry 20:00 – The Loneliness Epidemic in Men 23:00 – Remote Work & The Case for Alcohol 26:00 – Why Richer Families are Happier Families 30:00 – The Truth About Kids and Career 34:00 – Are Billionaires Happy? 38:00 – Becoming a Better Son, Father, Partner 46:00 – Behind the Persona: Who Scott Galloway Really Is

7 Jul 1h 10min

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