Swimming in Tech Debt — Practical Techniques to Keep Your Team from Drowning in Its Codebase | Lou Franco

Swimming in Tech Debt — Practical Techniques to Keep Your Team from Drowning in Its Codebase | Lou Franco

BONUS: Swimming in Tech Debt — Practical Techniques to Keep Your Team from Drowning in Its Codebase

In this fascinating conversation, veteran software engineer and author Lou Franco shares hard-won lessons from decades at startups, Trello, and Atlassian. We explore his book "Swimming in Tech Debt," diving deep into the 8 Questions framework for evaluating tech debt decisions, personal practices that compound over time, team-level strategies for systematic improvement, and leadership approaches that balance velocity with sustainability. Lou reveals why tech debt is often the result of success, how to navigate the spectrum between ignoring debt and rewriting too much, and practical techniques individuals, teams, and leaders can use starting today.

The Exit Interview That Changed Everything

"We didn't go slower by paying tech debt. We went actually faster, because we were constantly in that code, and now we didn't have to run into problems." — Lou Franco

Lou's understanding of tech debt crystallized during an exit interview at Atalasoft, a small startup where he'd spent years. An engineer leaving the company confronted him: "You guys don't care about tech debt." Lou had been focused on shipping features, believing that paying tech debt would slow them down. But this engineer told a different story — when they finally fixed their terrible build and installation system, they actually sped up. They were constantly touching that code, and removing the friction made everything easier. This moment revealed a fundamental truth: tech debt isn't just about code quality or engineering pride. It's about velocity, momentum, and the ability to move fast sustainably. Lou carried this lesson through his career at Trello (where he learned the dangers of rewriting too much) and Atlassian (where he saw enterprise-scale tech debt management). These experiences became the foundation for "Swimming in Tech Debt."

Tech Debt Is the Result of Success

"Tech debt is often the result of success. Unsuccessful projects don't have tech debt." — Lou Franco

This reframes the entire conversation about tech debt. Failed products don't accumulate debt — they disappear before it matters. Tech debt emerges when your code survives long enough to outlive its original assumptions, when your user base grows beyond initial expectations, when your team scales faster than your architecture anticipated. At Atalasoft, they built for 10 users and got 100. At Trello, mobile usage exploded beyond their web-first assumptions. Success creates tech debt by changing the context in which code operates. This means tech debt conversations should happen at different intensities depending on where you are in the product lifecycle. Early startups pursuing product-market fit should minimize tech debt investments — move fast, learn, potentially throw away the code. Growth-stage companies need balanced approaches. Mature products benefit significantly from tech debt investments because operational efficiency compounds over years. Understanding this lifecycle perspective helps teams make appropriate decisions rather than applying one-size-fits-all rules.

The 8 Questions Framework for Tech Debt Decisions

"Those 8 questions guide you to what you should do. If it's risky, has regressions, and you don't even know if it's gonna work, this is when you're gonna do a project spike." — Lou Franco

Lou introduces a systematic framework for evaluating whether to pay tech debt, inspired by Bob Moesta's push-pull forces from product management. The 8 questions create a complete picture:

  1. Visibility — Will people outside the team understand what we're doing?

  2. Alignment — Does this match our engineering values and target architecture?

  3. Resistance — How hard is this code to work with right now?

  4. Volatility — How often do we touch this code?

  5. Regression Risk — What's the chance we'll introduce new problems?

  6. Project Size — How big is this to fix?

  7. Estimate Risk — How uncertain are we about the effort required?

  8. Outcome Uncertainty — How confident are we the fix will actually improve things?

High volatility and high resistance with low regression risk? Pay the debt now. High regression risk with no tests? Write tests first, then reassess. Uncertain outcomes on a big project? Do a spike or proof of concept. The framework prevents both extremes — ignoring costly debt and undertaking risky rewrites without proper preparation.

Personal Practices That Compound Daily

"When I sit down at my desk, the first thing I do is I pay a little tech debt. I'm looking at code, I'm about to change it, do I even understand it? Am I having some kind of resistance to it? Put in a little helpful comment, maybe a little refactoring." — Lou Franco

Lou shares personal habits that create compounding improvements over time. Start each coding session by paying a small amount of tech debt in the area you're about to work — add a clarifying comment, extract a confusing variable, improve a function name. This warms you up, reduces friction for your actual work, and leaves the code slightly better than you found it. The clean-as-you-go philosophy means tech debt never accumulates faster than you can manage it. But Lou's most powerful practice comes at the end of each session: mutation testing by hand. Before finishing for the day, deliberately break something — change a plus to minus, a less-than to less-than-or-equal. See if tests catch it. Often they don't, revealing gaps in test coverage. The key insight: don't fix it immediately. Leave that failing test as the bridge to tomorrow's coding session. It connects today's momentum to tomorrow's work, ensuring you always start with context and purpose rather than cold-starting each day.

Mutation Testing: Breaking Things on Purpose

"Before I'm done working on a coding session, I break something on purpose. I'll change a plus to a minus, a less than to a less than equals, and see if tests break. A lot of times tests don't break. Now you've found a problem in your test." — Lou Franco

Manual mutation testing — deliberately breaking code to verify tests catch the break — reveals a critical gap in most test suites. You can have 100% code coverage and still have untested behavior. A line of code that's executed during tests isn't necessarily tested — the test might not actually verify what that line does. By changing operators, flipping booleans, or altering constants, you discover whether your tests protect against actual logic errors or just exercise code paths. Lou recommends doing this manually as part of your daily practice, but automated tools exist for systematic discovery: Stryker (for JavaScript, C#, Scala) and MutMut (for Python) can mutate your entire codebase and report which mutations survive uncaught. This isn't just about test quality — it's about understanding what your code actually does and building confidence that changes won't introduce subtle bugs.

Team-Level Practices: Budgets, Backlogs, and Target Architecture

"Create a target architecture document — where would we be if we started over today? Every PR is an opportunity to move slightly toward that target." — Lou Franco

At the team level, Lou advocates for three interconnected practices. First, create a target architecture document that describes where you'd be if starting fresh today — not a detailed design, but architectural patterns, technology choices, and structural principles that represent current best practices. This isn't a rewrite plan; it's a North Star. Every pull request becomes an opportunity to move incrementally toward that target when touching relevant code. Second, establish a budget split between PM-led feature work and engineering-led tech debt work — perhaps 80/20 or whatever ratio fits your product lifecycle stage. This creates predictable capacity for tech debt without requiring constant negotiation. Third, hold quarterly tech debt backlog meetings separate from sprint planning. Treat this backlog like PMs treat product discovery — explore options, estimate impacts, prioritize based on the 8 Questions framework. Some items fit in sprints; others require dedicated engineers for a quarter or two. This systematic approach prevents tech debt from being perpetually deprioritized while avoiding the opposite extreme of engineers disappearing into six-month "improvement" projects with no visible progress.

The Atlassian Five-Alarm Fire

"The Atlassian CTO's 'five-alarm fire' — stopping all feature development to focus on reliability. I reduced sync errors by 75% during that initiative." — Lou Franco

Lou shares a powerful example of leadership-driven tech debt management at scale. The Atlassian CTO called a "five-alarm fire" — halting all feature development across the company to focus exclusively on reliability and tech debt. This wasn't panic; it was strategic recognition that accumulated debt threatened the business. Lou worked on reducing sync errors, achieving a 75% reduction during this focused period. The initiative demonstrated several leadership principles: willingness to make hard calls that stop revenue-generating feature work, clear communication of why reliability matters strategically, trust that teams will use the time wisely, and commitment to see it through despite pressure to resume features. This level of intervention is rare and shouldn't be frequent, but it shows what's possible when leadership truly prioritizes tech debt. More commonly, leaders should express product lifecycle constraints (startup urgency vs. mature product stability), give teams autonomy to find appropriate projects within those constraints, and require accountability through visible metrics and dashboards that show progress.

The Rewrite Trap: Why Big Rewrites Usually Fail

"A system that took 10 years to write has implicit knowledge that can't be replicated in 6 months. I'm mostly gonna advocate for piecemeal migrations along the way, reducing the size of the problem over time." — Lou Franco

Lou lived through Trello's iOS navigation rewrite — a classic example of throwing away working code to start fresh, only to discover all the edge cases, implicit behaviors, and user expectations baked into the "old" system. A codebase that evolved over several years contains implicit knowledge — user workflows, edge case handling, performance optimizations, and subtle behaviors that users rely on even if they never explicitly requested them. Attempting to rewrite this in six months inevitably misses critical details. Lou strongly advocates for piecemeal migrations instead. The Trello "Decaffeinate Project" exemplifies this approach — migrating from CoffeeScript to TypeScript incrementally, with public dashboards showing the percentage remaining, interoperable technologies allowing gradual transition, and the ability to pause or reverse if needed. Keep both systems running in parallel during migrations. Use runtime observability to verify new code behaves identically to old code. Reduce the problem size steadily over months rather than attempting big-bang replacements. The only exception: sometimes keeping parallel systems requires scaffolding that creates its own complexity, so evaluate whether piecemeal migration is actually simpler or if you're better off living with the current system.

Making Tech Debt Visible Through Dashboards

"Put up a dashboard, showing it happen. Make invisible internal improvements visible through metrics engineering leadership understands." — Lou Franco

One of tech debt's biggest challenges is invisibility — non-technical stakeholders can't see the improvement from refactoring or test coverage. Lou learned to make tech debt work visible through dashboards and metrics. The Decaffeinate Project tracked percentage of CoffeeScript files remaining, providing a clear progress indicator anyone could understand. When reducing sync errors, Lou created dashboards showing error rates declining over time. These visualizations serve multiple purposes: they demonstrate value to leadership, create accountability for engineering teams, build momentum as progress becomes visible, and help teams celebrate wins that would otherwise go unnoticed. The key is choosing metrics that matter to the business — error rates, page load times, deployment frequency, mean time to recovery — rather than pure code quality metrics like cyclomatic complexity that don't translate outside engineering. Connect tech debt work to customer experience, reliability, or developer productivity in ways leadership can see and value.

Onboarding as a Tech Debt Opportunity

"Unit testing is a really great way to learn a system. It's like an executable specification that's helping you prove that you understand the system." — Lou Franco

Lou identifies onboarding as an underutilized opportunity for tech debt reduction. When new engineers join, they need to learn the codebase. Rather than just reading code or shadowing, Lou suggests having them write unit tests in areas they're learning. This serves dual purposes: tests are executable specifications that prove understanding of system behavior, and they create safety nets in areas that likely lack coverage (otherwise, why would new engineers be confused by the code?). The new engineer gets hands-on learning, the team gets better test coverage, and everyone wins. This practice also surfaces confusing code — if new engineers struggle to understand what to test, that's a signal the code needs clarifying comments, better naming, or refactoring. Make onboarding a systematic tech debt reduction opportunity rather than passive knowledge transfer.

Leadership's Role: Constraints, Autonomy, and Accountability

"Leadership needs to express the constraints. Tell the team what you're feeling about tech debt at a high level, and what you think generally is the appropriate amount of time to be spent on it. Then give them autonomy." — Lou Franco

Lou distills leadership's role in tech debt management to three elements. First, express constraints — communicate where you believe the product is in its lifecycle (early startup, rapid growth, mature cash cow) and what that means for tech debt tolerance. Are we pursuing product-market fit where code might be thrown away? Are we scaling a proven product where reliability matters? Are we maintaining a stable system where operational efficiency pays dividends? These constraints help teams make appropriate trade-offs. Second, give autonomy — once constraints are clear, trust teams to identify specific tech debt projects that fit those constraints. Engineers understand the codebase's pain points better than leaders do. Third, require accountability — teams must make their work visible through dashboards, metrics, and regular updates. Autonomy without accountability becomes invisible engineering projects that might not deliver value. Accountability without autonomy becomes micromanagement that wastes engineering judgment. The balance creates space for teams to make smart decisions while keeping leadership informed and confident in the investment.

AI and the Future of Tech Debt

"I really do AI-assisted software engineering. And by that, I mean I 100% review every single line of that code. I write the tests, and all the code is as I would have written it, it's just a lot faster. Developers are still responsible for it. Read the code." — Lou Franco

Lou has a chapter about AI in his book, addressing the elephant in the room: will AI-generated code create massive tech debt? His answer is nuanced. AI can accelerate development tremendously if used correctly — Lou uses it extensively but reviews every single line, writes all tests himself, and ensures the code matches what he would have written manually. The problem emerges with "vibe coders" — non-developers using AI to generate code they don't understand, creating unmaintainable messes that become someone else's problem. Developers remain responsible for all code, regardless of how it's generated. This means you must read and understand AI-generated code, not blindly accept it. Lou also raises supply chain security concerns — dependencies can contain malicious code, and AI might introduce vulnerabilities developers miss. His recommendation: stay six months behind on dependency updates, let others discover the problems first, and consider separate sandboxed development machines to limit security exposure. AI is a powerful tool, but it doesn't eliminate the need for engineering judgment, testing discipline, or code review practices.

The Style Guide Beyond Formatting

"Have a style guide that goes beyond formatting to include target architecture. This is the kind of code we want to write going forward." — Lou Franco

Lou advocates for style guides that extend beyond tabs-versus-spaces formatting rules to include architectural guidance. Document patterns you want to move toward: how should components be structured, what state management approaches do we prefer, how should we handle errors, what testing patterns should we follow? This creates a shared understanding of the target architecture without requiring a massive design document. When reviewing pull requests, teams can reference the style guide to explain why certain approaches align with where the codebase is headed versus perpetuating old patterns. This makes tech debt conversations less personal and more objective — it's not about criticizing someone's code, it's about aligning with team standards and strategic direction. The style guide becomes a living document that evolves as the team learns and technology changes, capturing collective wisdom about what good code looks like in your specific context.

Recommended Resources

Some of the resources mentioned in this episode include:

About Lou Franco

Lou Franco is a veteran software engineer and author of Swimming in Tech Debt. With decades of experience at startups, as well as Trello, and Atlassian, he's seen both sides of debt—as coder and leader. Today, he advises teams on engineering practices, helping them turn messy codebases into momentum.

You can link with Lou Franco on LinkedIn and learn more at LouFranco.com.

Avsnitt(200)

You Can't Make a Flower Grow Faster—The Oblique Approach to Shaping Culture | Karim Harbott

You Can't Make a Flower Grow Faster—The Oblique Approach to Shaping Culture | Karim Harbott

Karim Harbott: You Can't Make a Flower Grow Faster—The Oblique Approach to Shaping Culture Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "How can I make a flower grow faster? Culture is a product of the behaviors of people in the system." - Karim Harbott   For Karim, one of the biggest challenges—and enablers—in his current work is creating a supporting culture. After years of learning what doesn't work, he's come to understand that culture isn't something you can force or mandate. Like trying to make a flower grow faster by pulling on it, direct approaches to culture change often backfire.  Instead, Karim uses what he calls the "oblique approach"—changing culture indirectly by adjusting the five levers: leadership behaviors, organizational structure, incentives, metrics, and systems. Leadership behaviors are particularly crucial.  When leaders step back and encourage ownership rather than micromanaging, teams transform. Incentives have a huge impact on how teams work—align them poorly, and you'll get exactly the wrong behaviors.  Karim references Team of Teams by General Stanley McChrystal, which demonstrates how changing organizational structure and leadership philosophy can unlock extraordinary performance. He also uses the Competing Values Framework to help leaders understand different cultural orientations and their tradeoffs. But the most important lesson? There are always unexpected consequences. Culture change requires patience, experimentation, and a willingness to observe how the system responds. You can't force a flower to grow, but you can create the conditions where it thrives.   Self-reflection Question: Are you trying to change your organization's culture directly, or are you adjusting the conditions that shape behavior?   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people.   🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.   Buy Now on Amazon   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]   About Karim Harbott   Karim is a consultant, trainer, and non-executive director. He bridges the gap between strategy, business agility, digital transformation, innovation, AI, and board governance. He is a Certified Scrum Trainer, and is the author of The 6 Enablers of Business Agility.   You can link with Karim Harbott on LinkedIn.

5 Nov 17min

Why System Design Beats Individual Coaching Every Time | Karim Harbott

Why System Design Beats Individual Coaching Every Time | Karim Harbott

Karim Harbott: Why System Design Beats Individual Coaching Every Time Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "You can't change people, but you can change the system. Change the environment, not the people." - Karim Harbott   Karim was coaching a distributed team that was struggling with defects appearing constantly during sprints. The developers and testers were at different sites, and communication seemed fractured. But Karim knew from experience that when teams are underperforming, the problem usually isn't the people—it's the system they're working in. He stepped back to examine the broader context, implementing behavior-driven development(BDD) and specification by example to improve clarity through BDD scenarios.  But the defects persisted.  Then, almost by accident, Karim discovered the root cause: the developers and testers were employed by different companies. They had competing interests, different incentives, and fundamentally misaligned goals. No amount of coaching the individuals would fix a structural problem like that.  It took months, but eventually the system changed—developers and testers were reorganized into unified teams from the same organization. Suddenly, the defects dropped dramatically. As Jocko Willink writes in Extreme Ownership, when something isn't working, look at the system first. Karim's experience proves that sometimes the most compassionate thing you can do is stop trying to fix people and start fixing the environment they work in.   Self-reflection Question: When your team struggles, do you look at the people or at the system they're embedded in? Featured Book of the Week: Scaling Lean and Agile Development by Craig Larman and Bas Vodde "This book was absolute gold. The way it is written, and the tools they talk about went beyond what I was talking about back then. They introduced many concepts that I now use." - Karim Harbott   Karim discovered Scaling Lean and Agile Development by accident, but it resonated with him immediately. The concepts Craig Larman and Bas Vodde introduced—particularly around LeSS (Large-Scale Scrum)—went far beyond the basics Karim had been working with. The book opened his eyes to system-level thinking at scale, showing how to maintain agility even as organizations grow.  It's packed with practical tools and frameworks that Karim still uses today. For anyone working beyond a single team, this book provides the depth and nuance that most scaling frameworks gloss over. Also worth reading: User Stories Applied by Mike Cohn, another foundational text that shaped Karim's approach to working with teams.   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people.   🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.   Buy Now on Amazon   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]   About Karim Harbott   Karim is a consultant, trainer, and non-executive director. He bridges the gap between strategy, business agility, digital transformation, innovation, AI, and board governance. He is a Certified Scrum Trainer, and is the author of The 6 Enablers of Business Agility.   You can link with Karim Harbott on LinkedIn.

4 Nov 15min

The Day I Discovered I Was a Scrum Project Manager, Not a Scrum Master | Karim Harbott

The Day I Discovered I Was a Scrum Project Manager, Not a Scrum Master | Karim Harbott

Karim Harbott: The Day I Discovered I Was a Scrum Project Manager, Not a Scrum Master Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes.   "I was telling the team what to do, instead of helping the team to be better on their own. There's a lot more to being a Scrum Master than Agile—working with people is such a different skillset." - Karim Harbott   Karim thought he had mastered Scrum. He had read the books, understood the framework, and was getting things done. His team seemed to be moving forward smoothly—until he stepped away for a few weeks.  But, when he returned, everything had fallen apart. The team couldn't function without him constantly directing their work. That's when Karim realized he had fallen into one of the most common anti-patterns in Agile: the Scrum Project Manager.  Instead of enabling his team to be more effective, he had become their bottleneck. Every decision flowed through him, every task needed his approval, and the team had learned to wait for his direction rather than taking ownership themselves. The wake-up call was brutal but necessary.  Karim discovered that pushing project management responsibilities to the people doing the work—as David Marquet advocates—was far more powerful than being the hero who solves all problems. The real skill wasn't in telling people what to do; it was in creating an environment where they could figure it out themselves. Geoff Watts calls this servant leadership, and Karim learned it the hard way: a great Scrum Master makes themselves progressively less necessary, not more indispensable.   Self-reflection Question: Are you enabling your team to be more effective, or have you become the person they can't function without?   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people.   🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue.   Buy Now on Amazon   [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends]   About Karim Harbott   Karim is a consultant, trainer, and non-executive director. He bridges the gap between strategy, business agility, digital transformation, innovation, AI, and board governance. He is a Certified Scrum Trainer, and is the author of The 6 Enablers of Business Agility.   You can link with Karim Harbott on LinkedIn.

3 Nov 16min

Organizations as Ecosystems — Understanding Complexity, Innovation, and the Three-Body Problem at Work With Simon Holzapfel

Organizations as Ecosystems — Understanding Complexity, Innovation, and the Three-Body Problem at Work With Simon Holzapfel

BONUS: Organizations as Ecosystems — Understanding Complexity, Innovation, and the Three-Body Problem at Work In this fascinating conversation about complex adaptive systems, Simon Holzapfel helps us understand why traditional planning and control methods fail in knowledge work — and what we can do instead. Understanding Ecosystems vs. Systems "Complex adaptive systems are complex in nature and adaptive in that they evolve over time. That's different from a static system." — Simon Holzapfel   Simon introduces the crucial distinction between mechanical systems and ecosystems. While mechanical systems are predictable and static, ecosystems — like teams and organizations — are complex, adaptive, and constantly evolving. The key difference lies in the interactions among team members, which create emergent properties that cannot be predicted by analyzing individuals separately. Managers often fall into the trap of focusing on individuals rather than the interactions between them, missing where the real magic happens. This is why understanding your organization as an ecosystem, not a machine, fundamentally changes how you lead. In this segment, we refer to the Stella systems modeling application. The Journey from Planning to Emergence "I used to come into class with a lesson plan — doop, doop, doop, minute by minute agenda. And then what I realized is that I would just completely squash those questions that would often emerge from the class." — Simon Holzapfel   Simon shares his transformation from rigid classroom planning to embracing emergence. As a history and economics teacher for 10 years, he learned that over-planning kills the spontaneous insights that make learning powerful. The same principle applies to leadership: planning is essential, but over-planning wastes time and prevents novelty from emerging. The key is separating strategic planning (the "where" and "why") from tactical execution (the "how"), letting teams make local decisions while leaders focus on alignment with the bigger picture. "Innovation Arrives Stochastically" "Simply by noticing the locations where you've had your best ideas, we notice the stochasticness of arrival. Might be the shower, might be on a bike ride, might be sitting in traffic, might be at your desk — but often not." — Simon Holzapfel   Simon unpacks the concept of stochastic emergence — the idea that innovation cannot be scheduled or predicted in advance. Stochastic means something is predictable over large datasets but not in any given moment. You know you'll have ideas if you give yourself time and space, but you can't predict when or where they'll arrive. This has profound implications for managers who try to control when and how innovation happens. Knowledge work is about creating things that haven't existed before, so emergence is what we rely on. Try to squash it with too much control, and it simply won't happen. In this segment, we refer to the Systems Innovation YouTube channel. The Three-Body Problem: A Metaphor for Teams "When you have three nonlinear functions working at the same time within a system, you have almost no ability to predict its future state beyond just some of the shortest time series data." — Simon Holzapfel   Simon uses the three-body problem from physics as a powerful metaphor for organizational complexity. In physics, when you have three bodies (like planets) influencing each other, prediction becomes nearly impossible. The same is true in business — think of R&D, manufacturing, and sales as three interacting forces. The lesson: don't think you can master this complexity. Work with it. Understand it's a system. Most variability comes from the system itself, not from any individual person. This allows us to depersonalize problems — people aren't good or bad, systems can be improved. When teams understand this, they can relax and stop treating every unpredictable moment as an emergency. Coaching Leaders to Embrace Uncertainty "I'll start by trying to read their comfort level. I'll ask about their favorite teachers, their most hated teachers, and I'll really try to bring them back to moments in time that were pivotal in their own development." — Simon Holzapfel   How do you help analytical, control-oriented leaders embrace complexity and emergence? Simon's approach is to build rapport first, then gently introduce concepts based on each leader's background. For technical people who prefer math, he'll discuss narrow tail distributions and fat tails. For humanities-oriented leaders, he uses narrative and storytelling. The goal is to get leaders to open up to possibilities without feeling diminished. He might suggest small experiments: "Hold your tongue once in a meeting" or "Ask questions instead of making statements." These incremental changes help managers realize they don't have to be superhuman problem-solvers who control everything. Giving the Board a Number: The Paradox of Prediction "Managers say we want scientific management, but they don't actually want that. They want predictive management." — Simon Holzapfel   Simon addresses one of the biggest tensions in agile adoption: leaders who say "I just need to give the board a number" while also wanting innovation and adaptability. The paradox is clear — you cannot simultaneously be open to innovation and emergent possibilities while executing a predetermined plan with perfect accuracy. This is an artifact of management literature that promoted the "philosopher king" manager who knows everything. But markets are too movable, consumer tastes vary too much, and knowledge work is too complex for any single person to control. The burnout we see in leaders often comes from trying to achieve an impossible standard. In this segment, we refer to the episodes with David Marquet.  Resources for Understanding Complexity "Eric Beinhocker's book called 'The Origin of Wealth' is wonderful. It's a very approachable and well-researched piece that shows where we've been and where we're going in this area." — Simon Holzapfel   Simon recommends two key resources for anyone wanting to understand complexity and ecosystems. First, Eric Beinhocker's "The Origin of Wealth" explains how we developed flawed economic assumptions based on 19th-century Newtonian physics, and why we need to evolve our understanding. Second, the Systems Innovation YouTube channel offers brilliant short videos perfect for curious, open-minded managers. Simon suggests a practical approach: have someone on your team watch a video and share what they learned. This creates shared language around complexity and makes the concepts less personal and less threatening. The Path Forward: Systems Over Individuals "As a manager, our goal is to constantly evaluate the performance of the system, not the people. We can always put better systems in place. We can always improve existing systems. But you can't tell people what to do — it's not possible." — Simon Holzapfel   The conversation concludes with a powerful insight from Deming's work: about 95% of a system's productivity is linked to the system itself, not individual performance. This reframes the manager's role entirely. Instead of trying to control people, focus on improving systems. Instead of treating burnout as individual failure, see it as information that something in the system isn't working. Organizations are ever-changing ecosystems with dynamic properties that can only be observed, never fully predicted. This requires a completely different way of thinking about management — one that embraces uncertainty, values emergence, and trusts teams to figure things out within clear strategic boundaries. Recommended Resources As recommended resources for further reading, Simon suggests:  The Origin of Wealth, by Eric Beinhocker The Systems Innovation YouTube channel   About Simon Holzapfel   Simon Holzapfel is an educator, coach, and learning innovator who helps teams work with greater clarity, speed, and purpose. He specializes in separating strategy from tactics, enabling short-cycle decision-making and higher-value workflows. Simon has spent his career coaching individuals and teams to achieve performance with deeper meaning and joy. Simon is also the author of the Equonomist newsletter on Substack, where he explores the intersection of economics, equality, and equanimity in the workplace.   You can link with Simon Holzapfel on LinkedIn.

1 Nov 40min

From Missing in Action to Present and Collaborative—The Product Owner Spectrum | Darryl Wright

From Missing in Action to Present and Collaborative—The Product Owner Spectrum | Darryl Wright

Darryl Wright: The PONO—Product Owners in Name Only and How They Destroy Teams Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. The Great Product Owner: Collaborative, Present, and Clear in Vision "She was collaborative, and that meant that she was present—the opposite of the MIA product owner. She came, and she sat with the team, and she worked with them side by side. Even when she was working on something different, she'd be there, she'd be available." - Darryl Wright Darryl shares an unusual story about one of the best Product Owners he's ever encountered—someone who had never even heard of Agile before taking the role. Working for a large consulting company with 170,000 staff worldwide, they faced a difficult project that nobody wanted to do. Darryl suggested running it as an Agile project, but the entire team had zero Agile experience. The only person who'd heard of Agile was a new graduate who'd studied it for one week at university—he became the Scrum Master. The executive sponsor, with her business acumen and stakeholder management skills, became the Product Owner despite having no idea what that meant. The results were extraordinary: an 18-month project completed in just over 7 months, and when asked about the experience, the team's highest feedback was how much fun they had working on what was supposed to be an awful, difficult project. Darryl attributes this success to mindset—the team was open and willing to try something new. The Product Owner brought critical skills to the role even without technical Agile knowledge: She was collaborative and present, sitting with the team and remaining available. She was decisive, making prioritization calls clearly so nobody was ever confused about priorities. She had excellent communication skills, articulating the vision with clarity that inspired the team. Her stakeholder management capabilities kept external pressures managed appropriately. And her business acumen meant she instantly understood conversations about value, time to market, and customer impact. Without formal training, she became an amazing Product Owner simply by being open, willing, and committed. As Darryl reflects, going from never having heard of the role to being an inspiring Product Owner in 7 months was incredible—one of the most successful projects and teams he's ever worked with. Self-reflection Question: If you had to choose between a Product Owner with deep Agile certification and no business skills, or one with strong business acumen and willingness to learn—which would serve your team better? The Bad Product Owner: The PONO—Product Owner in Name Only "The team never saw the PO until the showcase. And so, the team would come along with work that they deemed was finished, and the product owner had not seen it before because he wasn't around. So he would be seeing it for the first time in the showcase, and he would then accept or reject the work in the showcase, in front of other stakeholders." - Darryl Wright The most destructive anti-pattern Darryl has witnessed was the MIA—Missing in Action—Product Owner, someone who was a Product Owner in Name Only (PONO). This senior business person was too busy to spend time with the team, only appearing at the sprint showcase. The damage this created was systematic and crushing. The team would build work without Product Owner engagement, then present it in the showcase looking to be proud of their accomplishment. The PO, seeing it for the first time, would accept or reject the work in front of stakeholders. When he rejected it, the team was crushed, deflated, demoralized, and made to look like fools in front of senior leaders—essentially thrown under the bus. This pattern violates multiple principles of Agile teamwork. First, there's no feedback loop during the sprint, so the team works blind, hoping they're building the right thing. Second, the showcase becomes a validation ceremony rather than a collaborative feedback session, creating a dynamic of subservience rather than curiosity. The team seeks approval instead of engaging as explorers discovering what delivers customer value together. Third, the PO positions themselves as judge rather than coach—extracting themselves from responsibility for what's delivered while placing all blame on the team. As Deming's quote reminds us, "A leader is a coach, not a judge." When the PO takes the judge role, they're betraying fundamental Agile values. The responsibility for what the team delivers belongs strictly to the Product Owner; the team owns how it's delivered. When Darryl encounters this situation as a Scrum Master, he lobbies intensely with the PO: "Even if you can't spare any other time for the entire sprint, give us just one hour the night before the showcase." That single hour lets the team preview what they'll present, getting early yes/no decisions so they never face public rejection. The basic building block of any Agile or Scrum way of working is an empowered team—and this anti-pattern strips all empowerment away. Self-reflection Question: Does your Product Owner show up as a coach who's building something together with the team, or as a judge who pronounces verdicts? How does that dynamic shape what your team is willing to try? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people. 🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Darryl Wright Darryl is an Agile Coach and Instructor dedicated to helping organisations and leaders be both successful and humane. He has over two decades in IT delivery and business leadership, he champions Agile ways of working to create thriving workplaces where people are happy, productive, and deliver products customers truly love. You can link with Darryl Wright on LinkedIn, and visit Darryl's website at www.organa.com.au.

31 Okt 14min

Beyond Vanity Metrics—Defining Real Success for Scrum Masters | Darryl Wright

Beyond Vanity Metrics—Defining Real Success for Scrum Masters | Darryl Wright

Darryl Wright: The Retrospective Formats That Actually Generate Change Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "My success is, how much have I helped the team achieve what they want? If what they want is to uplift quality, or to reduce their time to market, well then, my success is helping them achieve that." - Darryl Wright When Darryl enters a new organization, he's often told his success will be measured by percentage of Agile adoption or team maturity assessment scores. His response is direct: those are vanity metrics that show something for its own sake, not real success. True success requires multiple measures, carefully balanced to prevent gaming and to capture both the human and business dimensions of work. Darryl advocates balancing quantitative metrics like lead time and flow efficiency with qualitative measures like employee happiness and team self-assessment of productivity. He balances business outcomes like customer satisfaction and revenue with humanity metrics that track the team's journey toward high performance. Most importantly, Darryl believes his success metrics should be co-created with the team. If he's there to help the team, then success must be defined by how much he's helped them achieve what they want—not what he wants. When stakeholders fixate on output metrics like "more story points," Darryl uses a coaching approach to shift the conversation toward outcomes and value. "Would you be happy if your team checked off more boxes, but your customers were less happy?" he asks. This opens space for exploring what they really want to achieve and why it matters. The key is translating outputs into impacts, helping people articulate the business value or customer experience improvement they're actually seeking. As detailed in Better Value, Sooner, Safer, Happier by Jonathan Smart, comprehensive dashboards can track value across multiple domains simultaneously—balancing speed with quality, business success with humanity, quantitative data with qualitative experience. When done well, Agile teams can be highly productive, highly successful, and have high morale at the same time. We don't have to sacrifice one for the other—we can have both. Self-reflection Question: If your team could only track two metrics for the next sprint, what would they choose? What would you choose? And more importantly, whose choice should drive the selection? Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: The 4 L's and Three Little Pigs Darryl offers two favorites, tailored to different contexts. For learning environments, he loves the 4 L's retrospective: Liked, Learned, Lacked, and Longed For. This format creates space for teams to reflect on their learning journey, surfacing insights about what worked, what was missing, and what they aspire to moving forward. For operational environments, he recommends the Three Little Pigs retrospective, which brilliantly surfaces team strengths and weaknesses through a playful metaphor. The House of Straw represents things the team is weak at—nothing stands up, everything falls over. The House of Sticks is things they've put structure around, but it doesn't really work. The House of Bricks represents what they're solid on, what they can count on every time. Then comes the most important part: identifying the Big Bad Wolf—the scary thing, the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about but everyone knows is there. This format creates psychological safety to discuss the undiscussable. Darryl emphasizes two critical success factors for retrospectives: First, vary your formats. Teams that hear the same questions sprint after sprint will disengage, asking "why are you asking me again?" Different questions provide different lenses, generating fresh insights. Second, ensure actions come out of every retro. Nothing kills engagement faster than suggestions disappearing into the void. When people see their ideas lead to real changes, they'll eagerly return to the next retrospective. And don't forget to know your team—if they're sports fans, use sports retros; if they're scientists, use space exploration themes. Just don't make the mistake of running a "sailboat retro" with retiring mainframe engineers who'll ask if you think they're kindergarten children. For more retrospective formats, check out Retromat. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people. 🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Darryl Wright Darryl is an Agile Coach and Instructor dedicated to helping organisations and leaders be both successful and humane. He has over two decades in IT delivery and business leadership, he champions Agile ways of working to create thriving workplaces where people are happy, productive, and deliver products customers truly love. You can link with Darryl Wright on LinkedIn, and visit Darryl's website at www.organa.com.au.

30 Okt 15min

Why AI Adoption Will Fail Just Like Agile Did—Unless We Change | Darryl Wright

Why AI Adoption Will Fail Just Like Agile Did—Unless We Change | Darryl Wright

Darryl Wright: Why AI Adoption Will Fail Just Like Agile Did—Unless We Change Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "People are looking to AI to solve their problems, and they're doing it in the same way that they previously looked to Agile to solve their problems for them. The problem with that is, of course, that Agile doesn't solve problems for you. What it does is it shines a light on where your problems are." - Darryl Wright The world has gone AI crazy, and Darryl sees history repeating itself in troubling ways. Organizations are rushing to adopt AI with the same magical thinking they once applied to Agile—believing that simply implementing the tool will solve their fundamental problems. But just as Agile reveals problems rather than solving them, AI will do the same. Worse, AI threatens to accelerate existing problems: if you have too many things moving at once, AI won't fix that, it will amplify the chaos. If you automate a bad process, you've simply locked in badness at higher speed. As Darryl points out, when organizations don't understand that AI requires them to still do the hard work of problem-solving, they're setting themselves up for disillusionment, and in five or twenty years, we'll hear "AI is dead" just like we now hear "Agile is dead." The challenge for Scrum Masters and Agile coaches is profound: how do you help people with something they don't know they need? The answer lies in returning to first principles. Before adopting any tool—whether Agile or AI—organizations must clearly define the problem they're trying to solve. As Einstein reportedly said, "If I had an hour to solve a problem, I'd spend 55 minutes thinking about the problem and 5 minutes thinking about solutions." Value stream mapping becomes essential, allowing teams to visualize where humans and AI agents should operate, with clear handovers and explicit policies. The cognitive load on software teams will increase dramatically as AI generates more code, more options, and more complexity. Without clear thinking about problems and deliberate design of systems, AI adoption will follow the same disappointing trajectory as many Agile adoptions—lots of activity, little improvement, and eventually, blame directed at the tool rather than the system. Self-reflection Question: Are you adopting AI to solve a clearly defined problem, or because everyone else is doing it? If you automated your current process with AI, would you be locking in excellence or just accelerating dysfunction? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people. 🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Darryl Wright Darryl is an Agile Coach and Instructor dedicated to helping organisations and leaders be both successful and humane. He has over two decades in IT delivery and business leadership, he champions Agile ways of working to create thriving workplaces where people are happy, productive, and deliver products customers truly love. You can link with Darryl Wright on LinkedIn, and visit Darryl's website at www.organa.com.au.

29 Okt 18min

The Agile Team That Committed to Failure for 18 Sprints Straight | Darryl Wright

The Agile Team That Committed to Failure for 18 Sprints Straight | Darryl Wright

Darryl Wright: The Agile Team That Committed to Failure for 18 Sprints Straight Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "As Deming said, a bad system will beat a good person every time." - Darryl Wright Darryl was called in to help a struggling team at a large energy retailer. The symptoms seemed straightforward—low morale, poor relationships, and chronic underdelivery. But as he asked questions, a heartbreaking pattern emerged. The team had been "committing" to 110 story points per sprint while consistently delivering only 30. For 18 sprints. When Darryl asked why the team would commit to numbers they couldn't possibly achieve, the answer was devastating: "The business needs that much." This wasn't a problem of skill or capability—it was learned helplessness in action. Sprint after sprint, the team experienced failure, which made them more despondent and less effective, creating a vicious downward spiral. The business lost trust, the team lost confidence, and everyone was trapped in a system that guaranteed continued failure. When Darryl proposed the solution—committing to a realistic 30 points—he was told it was impossible because "the business needs 110 points." But the business wasn't getting 110 points anyway. They were getting broken promises, a demoralized team, stress leave, high churn, and a relationship built on distrust. Darryl couldn't change the system in that case, but the lesson was clear: adult people who manage their lives perfectly well outside work can become completely helpless inside work when the system repeatedly tells them their judgment doesn't matter. As Ricardo Semler observes in Maverick!, people leave their initiative at the door when organizations create systems that punish honest assessment and reward false promises. Self-reflection Question: Is your team committing to what they believe they can achieve, or to what they think someone else wants to hear? What would happen if they told the truth? Featured Book of the Week: Better Value, Sooner, Safer, Happier by Jonathan Smart Darryl describes Better Value, Sooner, Safer, Happier by Jonathan Smart as a treasure trove of real-life experience from people who have "had their sleeves rolled up in the trenches" for decades. What he loves most is the authenticity—the authors openly share not just their successes, but all the things that didn't work and why. One story that crystallizes the book's brilliance involves Barclays Bank and their ingenious approach to change adoption. Facing resistance from laggards who refused to adopt Agile improvements despite overwhelming social proof, they started publishing lists of "most improved teams." When resisters saw themselves at the bottom of these public lists, they called to complain—and were asked, "Did you have improvements we didn't know about?" The awkward pause would follow, then the inevitable question: "How do I get these improvements?" Demand creation at its finest. Darryl particularly appreciates that the authors present at conferences saying, "Let me tell you about all the things we've stuffed up in major agile transformations all around the world," bringing genuine humility and practical wisdom to every page. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people. 🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Darryl Wright Darryl is an Agile Coach and Instructor dedicated to helping organisations and leaders be both successful and humane. He has over two decades in IT delivery and business leadership, he champions Agile ways of working to create thriving workplaces where people are happy, productive, and deliver products customers truly love. You can link with Darryl Wright on LinkedIn, and visit Darryl's website at www.organa.com.au.

28 Okt 15min

Populärt inom Politik & nyheter

svenska-fall
motiv
aftonbladet-krim
p3-krim
fordomspodden
flashback-forever
rss-viva-fotboll
rss-krimstad
aftonbladet-daily
rss-sanning-konsekvens
spar
blenda-2
rss-vad-fan-hande
rss-krimreportrarna
rss-frandfors-horna
dagens-eko
olyckan-inifran
krimmagasinet
rss-expressen-dok
svd-nyhetsartiklar