The Al Franken Podcast21 Dec 2025

David A. Graham on What Project 2025 Wrought

Throughout the 2024 election, we all heard about the dangers of Project 2025, yet somehow it’s worse than we imagined. Trump continuously said he didn't know anything about it (but he did), and nearly a year after his swearing in, we've seen a huge portion of it already implemented. We're joined by The Atlantic’s David A. Graham, author of the new book, “The Project: How Project 2025 is Shaping America.”

In just 138 pages, David covers the entire 920-page document. He explains how many of the authors of Project 2025 saw Trump's first term as a failure because he was stopped from accomplishing his core goals - like building the border wall and repealing Obamacare. The answer was to create a shadow administration that would guide his policy decisions if he made it back to office.

We run through a variety of issues that are being influenced by Project 2025, including immigration and border security, education, and trade. And we discuss the most influential figure, Russell Vought, current Director of the Office of Management and Budget. One of his main priorities? Inflict pain on government employees.

Plus, Al remembers his friends, Rob and Michele Reiner.

READ David's book, “The Project”: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/800230/the-project-by-david-a-graham/

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Al and Dahlia Lithwick on The Monarchic Supreme Court

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