The Polygraph — Science or Art?

Sidney Gottlieb was one of the CIA’s star chemists during the Cold War. As head of MKUltra, he ran a brazen—and deadly—program aimed at mind control.  Gottlieb and fellow scientists tried to keep the work secret by destroying files, but historian John Lisle has new details from the six boxes that remained untouched. He shares insights and reflections straight from the mouths of MKUltra’s perpetrators and victims.  John’s new book, Project Mind Control, sheds light on one of the CIA’s darkest moments which still haunts the agency. Available now for pre-order.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: The Dirty Tricks Department with John Lisle THE SOUND: Mystery of Havana Syndrome Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

25 Mars 31min

Valerie Plame’s clandestine life made headlines in 2003 after her CIA cover was leaked to the press. Her husband, an ambassador, had gone to Niger to investigate whether yellowcake uranium had been transferred to Iraq to make weapons of mass destruction.  He publicly challenged the Bush administration on what we now know was false intelligence. Valerie’s unmasking was seen as retaliation. Now, over 20 years later, she reflects on the political scandal, and where her concerns lie today. If you liked this episode, check out these links: Author Debriefing: Burned with Valerie Plame National Security Now: An Evening with Gina Bennett and Peter Bergen Join Valerie aboard the Spies at Sea cruise August 30 - September 8, 2025! On this 10-day voyage across the Mediterranean, you’ll explore beautiful sights and ancient cities while immersing yourself in the world of espionage with exclusive seminars. Learn more here: https://www.spiesliesnukes.com/spies-at-seas-2025  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

18 Mars 30min

After the Taliban took back control of Afghanistan, the National Resistance Front rose up to defy them. We spoke with their leader Ahmad Massoud, who has overseen hundreds of military and intelligence-gathering operations. He’s following the footsteps of his father, who led his own resistance group, the Northern Alliance, until members of Al Qaeda assassinated him two days before they conducted the September 11 terrorist attacks. Fast forward to the mid-2000s, International Spy Museum executive director Chris Costa, then a human intelligence officer, worked with that group to develop intel on the Taliban and Al Qaeda. Now, in the wake of the U.S. withdrawal and Afghanistan’s collapse, Costa says the U.S. is losing an opportunity to support Massoud and the National Resistance Front. If you liked this episode, check out these links: Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Guest: Ali Maisam Nazary Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Guest: Christine Abizaid Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

11 Mars 29min

He was an American spy before an American spy agency existed. NFL player Ernest Cuneo, a little known first generation Italian American, worked with British intelligence to convince the United States to join World War II, and helped lay the groundwork for modern day espionage. Thomas Maier traces Cuneo’s extraordinary life in his new book, The Invisible Spy, out March 25th.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: Agent Link: The Spy Erased from History | With former FBI Counterintelligence Expert The Dirty Tricks Department with John Lisle Operation Underworld with Matthew Black Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org,  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

4 Mars 25min

A fourth year of war in Ukraine begins. But for Lt. Col. Kyrylo Berkal, who’s been fighting since Russia first invaded in 2014, the battle for his country has raged much longer. Now, he’s second in command of the elite Third Assault Brigade, which has played a major role in critical battles against Russia and continues to develop new technologies to both gather intelligence and enhance combat techniques.  Kirt spoke to us between missions. During the conversation, he revealed his firsthand insights and experiences of the war as Ukraine keeps up the fight for independence. If you liked this episode, check out these links: An Evening with General David H. Petraeus Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Guest: Ambassador Roger D. Carstens SpyCast - “Zelensky, Ukraine & Intelligence” – with Simon Shuster Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org,  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

25 Feb 27min

She’s known for helping to free people through the Underground Railroad, but Harriet Tubman was also a spy during the Civil War. And with the intelligence she collected, the Maryland native became the first woman to lead men into battle on gunboats down the Combahee River in South Carolina. The Combahee River Raid destroyed several vital Confederate rice plantations and liberated more than 750 people from enslavement.   Social historian Edda Fields-Black reveals new details about the raid and Tubman. And later in the episode, Ernestine Wyatt, Tubman’s great-great-great-grandniece, discusses the importance of Harriet’s espionage work and the legacy of her dedication to democracy.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: The Real Harriet Tubman African Americans in Espionage | International Spy Museum Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at spycast@Spymuseum.org,  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

18 Feb 30min

North Korea is growing more dangerous, but no U.S. administration has been able to crack the code on its leader Kim Jong Un. Now, there’s even less incentive for Kim to negotiate because of the support he’s getting from Russia. So what will Kim do next, and where is he vulnerable? Jung H. Pak, a former CIA analyst who served as the country’s top diplomat for North Korea, takes us inside the mind of one of the world's most opaque leaders. If you liked this episode, check out these links: Virtual Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Guest: Dr. Jung H. Pak AI and Emerging Technologies: Intelligence Opportunities & Challenges  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic,  you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org,  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

11 Feb 30min

For decades, colleges and universities have been a destination for espionage. Especially in recent years, the use of international students and faculty as spies on American campuses has been particularly daunting. Why do intelligence services, both foreign and domestic, target colleges and universities? And what is there to gain on these campuses? Award-winning journalist Daniel Golden, author of the book Spy Schools, describes the timeless game.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: Secret History of History: Color Wars Part II with Catherine McKinley Chinese Corporate Espionage - The Tale of the Tea Thief with Sarah Rose Declassified Dessert | How to Make Cuban Spy Ana Montes’ Cheesecake Queen of Cuba with Peter J. Lapp SpyCast | “Making Sense of China, Taiwan, & America” – Pacific Intelligence with Bonny Lin Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/ And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic,  you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org,  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

4 Feb 27min