Inside the War on Southeast Asia's Industrial Scam Economy with Rafael Frankel

Fresh out of the studio, Dr. Rafael Frankel, Head of Public Policy for Asia Pacific at Meta, joins us to unpack how Meta is stepping up on the fight against scam syndicates in Southeast Asia along with a coalition of partners. He explains why today's syndicates operate with state-like capabilities and forced labor at scale and how AI has become both the scammers' sword and Meta's shield, powering the removal of hundred million scam accounts in 2025. Frankel walks through the disruption-sprint model that took down the million accounts in a single week alongside the FBI, Microsoft and Starlink, and argues that beating scams demands a coalition matched to the criminal supply chain. Closing out, he reminds us that crime is never zero — but through sustained, collective pressure, it can be cut by orders of magnitude.

"I think that people underestimate the criminals that are the drivers of the scams. Mostly what we're talking about at this point is extremely well-financed, highly sophisticated transnational criminal networks that have turnover in the billions, tens of billions, and have the finances, the technological know-how, the sophistication to really be trying to scam people 24/7, 365 days a year. That's a tough adversary to be up against." - Dr Rafael Frankel

Profile: Profile: Dr Rafael Frankel, Head of Asia-Pacific Public Policy at Meta

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/rafael-frankel/

Episode Highlights:
[00:00] Quote of the Day by Rafael Frankel from Meta
[02:38] From foreign correspondent to tech policy
[03:39] Career lessons: gut instinct and taking risks
[04:33] Why the Meta APAC policy role, and why now
[07:26] The one thing people misunderstand about scams
[09:13] What changed: industrial scale scam centers
[11:35] AI as Meta's shield, deployed at scale
[13:07] Genesis: the Bangkok 2024 convening
[14:14] First disruption: 59,000 accounts, six warrants
[15:45] June haul: 1.5M accounts, Microsoft, Starlink, 63 arrests
[16:52] Matching the coalition to the criminal supply chain
[18:52] Building trust: results create the feedback loop
[20:05] The Global Signal Exchange and the FIRE program
[22:50] Counter-intuitive lesson: Meta doesn't see everything
[24:13] Asia Pacific as front line of the solution
[26:20] Pulling on the same rope across governments
[27:30] POGO centers and pinpointed police action
[29:02] Is sanctioning a kingpin just theatre?
[30:52] Crime is never zero, but reducible by orders of magnitude
[31:02] The question Rafael wishes people asked: how can I help?
[32:52] What success looks like three years out
[35:08] Closing

Podcast Information: Bernard Leong hosts and produces the show. The proper credits for the intro and end music are "Energetic Sports Drive." G. Thomas Craig mixed and edited the episode in both video and audio format.