A CIA Psychologist on the Minds of World Leaders, Pt. 1 with Dr. Ursula Wilder
SpyCast20 Feb 2024

A CIA Psychologist on the Minds of World Leaders, Pt. 1 with Dr. Ursula Wilder

Summary Dr. Ursula Wilder (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss the intersections between psychology and intelligence. Ursula is a clinical psychologist with over two decades of experience working at the Central Intelligence Agency. What You’ll Learn Intelligence How psychology can be useful to national security Historical examples of leadership analysis Leadership personality assessments & the Cuban Missile Crisis Psychoanalytic theory and espionage Reflections Human nature throughout history History repeating itself And much, much more … Quotes of the Week “Together, these documents are quite powerful. The psych assessments are very, very carefully, tightly held and are classified at a high level. Every intelligence officer has this fantasy about seeing the file that's kept on them by the opponents.” Resources SURFACE SKIM *SpyCasts* Agent of Betrayal, FBI Spy Robert Hanssen with CBS’ Major Garrett and Friends (2023) The North Korean Defector with Former DPRK Agent Kim, Hyun Woo (2023) SPY@20 – “The Spy of the Century” with Curators Alexis and Andrew on Kim Philby (2022) “How Spies Think” – 10 Lessons in Intelligence with Sir David Omand (2020) *Beginner Resources* What is Psychoanalysis? Institute of Psychoanalysis, YouTube (2011) [3 min. video] Psychologists in the CIA, American Psychological Association (2002) [Short article] 7 Reasons to Study Psychology, University of Toronto (n.d.) [Short article] DEEPER DIVE Books Freud and Beyond, S. A. Mitchell (Basic Books, 2016) Narcissism and Politics: Dreams of Glory, J. M. Post (Cambridge University Press, 2014) The True Believer: Thoughts on the Nature of Mass Movements, E. Hoffer (Harper Perennial Modern Classics, 2010) Team of Rivals: The Political Genius of Abraham Lincoln, D. K. Goodwin (Simon & Schuster, 2004) Leaders, Fools, and Impostors: Essays on the Psychology of Leadership, M. F. R. Kets de Vries (iUniverse, 2003) Primary Sources Charles de Gaulle to Pamela Digby Churchill (1942) Blood, Toil, Tears and Sweat (1940) Memoirs of Ulysses S. Grant (1885) Gettysburg Address (1863) House Divided Speech (1858) Excerpt on Cleopatra from Plutarch's Life of Julius Caesar (ca. 2nd century AD) Plutarch’s The Life of Alexander (ca. 2nd century AD) Appian’s The Civil Wars (ca. 2nd century AD) Virgil’s The Aeneid (19 B.C.E) *Wildcard Resource* On Dreams by Sigmund Freud (1901) In this simplified version of the father of psychoanalysis’ seminal book The Interpretation of Dreams, you can get a small taste for Freudian philosophy. Freud believed that dreams were a reflection of the subconscious mind and that studying a person’s dreams can elucidate their inner wants and needs. What are your dreams telling you?

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Agent of Chaos: The Austrian Fugitive Running Russia’s Global Spy Networks

Agent of Chaos: The Austrian Fugitive Running Russia’s Global Spy Networks

Today he’s one of the most wanted men in the world, but before Jan Marsalek fled to Russia, he was the COO of payment-processing firm Wirecard.  Officials and investigators say Marsalek used the company to finance Moscow’s covert operations and spy networks in Africa and Europe. In 2020, nearly €2 billion vanished from Wirecard, along with Marsalek. Financial Times reporter Sam Jones has been uncovering new details through his reporting on Season 3 of Hot Money: Agent of Chaos.  To hear more, listen to Season 3 of Hot Money: Agent of Chaos on Apple, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. If you liked this episode, check out these links: Russia's Fake Identity Assembly Line in Brazil | SpyCast "The Minions": Putin's Expendable Spies | SpyCast Russian Assassinations in the UK: Inside Three Notorious Cases with Historian Nigel West Curator's Corner: Kevin P. Riehle on Russian Intelligence Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.

22 Juli 202531min

From Intel Officer to White House Adviser: A Chat with The Museum’s Executive Director

From Intel Officer to White House Adviser: A Chat with The Museum’s Executive Director

This week we spoke with the International Spy Museum's Executive Director, Colonel Chris Costa. His decades-long career in the intelligence community spanned multiple continents, running sensitive operations in Panama, Bosnia, Iraq, and Afghanistan, where he earned two Bronze stars for his human intelligence contributions. Later, Costa advised Navy Seals as a civilian and eventually assumed the role of Executive Director here at the International Spy Museum. In this interview, we zeroed in on 2017 when he was detailed to the White House as the Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for Counterterrorism. Looking for more thoughtful analysis of contemporary intelligence issues? Check out our program Spy Chat – Each month, Chris sits down with a special guest for a live online discussion of the latest intelligence, national security, and terrorism issues in the news. Check our program calendar to register!  If you liked this episode, check out these links: Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Special Guest: Tal Sullivan An Evening with H.R. McMaster Operación Jaque - The Daring Rescue Mission That Freed 15 Hostages Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.

15 Juli 202533min

“America’s Gatekeeper”: A Conversation with DCSA’s Director David Cattler

“America’s Gatekeeper”: A Conversation with DCSA’s Director David Cattler

Born out of a major Chinese cyberattack that stole personal information from millions of federal government employees, the Defense Counterintelligence and Security Agency calls itself ‘America’s Gatekeeper.’  Now five years into its existence, it’s responsible for overseeing most of the security clearances for government personnel and contractors. DCSA’s director David Cattler, formerly NATO’s Assistant Secretary General for Intelligence and Security, assesses the current threats.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: DOGE Layoffs and the Counterintelligence Threats They Pose | SpyCast Dir. of National Intelligence Roundtable: 2025 Society for Intelligence History Panel Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Guest: Carol Rollie Flynn Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.

8 Juli 202529min

Russia's Fake Identity Assembly Line in Brazil

Russia's Fake Identity Assembly Line in Brazil

When a Russian spy was arrested in Brazil in 2022, authorities were shocked to discover that he seemed to have a real birth certificate and authentic citizenship documents. The incident sparked a multi-year investigation that uncovered a network of Russian operatives living and working in Brazil – Their false identities supported by genuine documents. New York Times journalist Jane Bradley, who investigated the spy network, joined us to discuss the case as Brazilian law enforcement continues to piece together answers today.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: Ghost Stories: The Hunt for Russian Spies in the US | SpyCast "The Minions": Putin's Expendable Spies | SpyCast Curator's Corner: Kevin P. Riehle on Russian Intelligence Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.

1 Juli 202531min

Breaking the Silence: Coming Out in the CIA

Breaking the Silence: Coming Out in the CIA

Emerging alongside Joseph McCarthy’s Red Scare in the 1950s was the Lavender Scare: Widespread panic and paranoia over the inclusion of gay personnel in the federal government. Their perceived dangers led to the terminations and forced resignations of thousands. Fast forward to 1988 – Tracey Ballard, who worked at the CIA, headed in to take a polygraph exam. Not sure what would happen next, she did something no one else ever had – She told her polygrapher, ‘I’m a lesbian.’ Trace became the first openly gay CIA employee, and spent the next decade of her career fighting for inclusion, acceptance, and kindness within the agency. Her story highlights the critical importance of diversity, and the beauty in recognizing the things that make us different as well as the shared values that bring us all together. From all of us at the International Spy Museum, we are proud to celebrate the LGBTQ+ community this Pride month and beyond.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: Hack to the Future with Emily Crose Agents of Change: African American Professionals in the Intelligence Community Reflect The Sisterhood with Liza Mundy Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.

24 Juni 202532min

A Conversation with House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence Chairman

A Conversation with House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence Chairman

What should the US Intelligence Community prioritize domestically and overseas, and how should the work be done? We sat down with Congressman Rick Crawford, Chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, to learn his perspective on these questions. The conversation emphasized the growing threat of China’s influence in the West, the impact of the new Open Source Intelligence Subcommittee, and the importance of analytic integrity in intelligence.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Special Guest: Beth Sanner Dir. of National Intelligence Roundtable: 2025 Society for Intelligence History Panel An Evening with H.R. McMaster Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.

17 Juni 202532min

Ghost Stories: The Hunt for Russian Spies in the US

Ghost Stories: The Hunt for Russian Spies in the US

In the early 2000s, the FBI uncovered a team of Russian operatives who had been living double lives in the United States. They were posing as professors, journalists, financial planners, real estate and travel agents, all while sending information back to Moscow. Now, 15 years after they were arrested, Alan Kohler, the former Assistant Director of the FBI's Counterintelligence Division, tells us what it was like to supervise the case which came to be known as Operation Ghost Stories.  In this episode, Alan mentions a number of different photos and videos from the Ghost Stories investigation. You can view them all here through the FBI’s digital vault.  If you liked this episode, check out these links: "The Minions": Putin's Expendable Spies Spy Chat with Chris Costa | Guest: Alan E. Kohler, Jr. Curator's Corner: Kevin P. Riehle on Russian Intelligence Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.

10 Juni 202531min

The Secret Navy and Their Hunt for a Nazi Sub

The Secret Navy and Their Hunt for a Nazi Sub

How do you catch an enemy’s submarine … and then make it vanish? That’s what the U.S. Navy’s elusive Tenth Fleet planned, as it tracked down Germany’s U-505 submarine. The mission came right before the Allies ran ashore on the beaches of Normandy in World War II. Historian Alexander Rose draws on long classified documents and intercepted transmissions to reveal the bold, salt-soaked heist. Alex's new book, Phantom Fleet: The Hunt for Nazi Submarine U-505 and World War II’s Most Daring Heist  is available now. If you liked this episode, check out these links: Agent Zo: The Extraordinary Woman Who Parachuted Into Nazi-Occupied Poland Enigma Traitors with Dermot Turing The Heavy Water Sabotage Raid Prefer to watch your podcasts? Find us on YouTube at https://www.youtube.com/@IntlSpyMuseum/podcasts.  Subscribe to Sasha's Substack, HUMINT, to get more intelligence stories: https://sashaingber.substack.com/  And if you have feedback or want to hear about a particular topic, you can reach us by E-mail at SpyCast@Spymuseum.org.  This show is brought to you from Goat Rodeo, Airwave, and the International Spy Museum in Washington, DC.

3 Juni 202533min

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