“The World’s Preeminent Collection of SPY Artifacts” – with Laura Hicken and Lauren VonBechmann

Summary Vikram Sood (Twitter, Blog) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss intelligence in the world’s largest democracy. He was the chief of India’s Research & Analysis Wing (R&AW).  What You’ll Learn Intelligence The intelligence landscape in India  China, Pakistan, and the intelligence challenges in the region The founding and evolution of the Research and Analysis Wing  The pressure involved in the top job and being responsible to the Prime Minister Reflections The power of narratives  Spies can be sensitive souls too And much, much more… Episode Notes This is the final installment of our month long special on SPY CHIEFS, featuring Vikram Sood. former Director of India’s foreign intelligence agency, the Research & Analysis Wing (RA&W). This episode from the vault was recorded during the darkest days of the pandemic when the International Spy Museum was closed, infections and deaths were sky high, and Andrew was at home in his living room with Vikram at his in New Delhi.  So, is the R&AW similar to the CIA or MI6 or both? Does it have a covert action capability? How focused is it on China and Pakistan? Who does the Director report to? To hear the answers tune in to listen to an Indian Spy Chief who was in office in the critical years 2000-2003.  Vikram was in the intelligence business for more than thirty years, since leaving as the professional head of India’s foreign intelligence agency he went on to have a successful second career at the think-tank, Observer Research Foundation, which is based in New Delhi. He is the author of two books (see below). And… Depending on the source, India has more, a little less, or roughly the same number of Muslims as Pakistan. An incredible fact when you consider that Pakistan is generally in the top five for having the largest population in the world. In fact, India has a larger population than the United States, Pakistan, Indonesia, Brazil and Nigeria combined.  Quote of the Week "There is immense tension in the job because anything can go wrong any day and you will be held responsible if there is another bomb blast somewhere else. But if the leadership is supportive and it's understanding, and also contributes to helping you decide things, takes decisions for you that need politically clearances. That helps a lot that takes away the anxieties, it keeps the blood pressure down." – Vikram Sood Resources Headline Resource The Ultimate Goal: R&AW Chief Deconstructs how Nations Construct Narratives (Harper India, 2020) The Unending Game: A Former R&AW Chief’s Insights into Espionage (Penguin, 2018) Beginner Resources [Video] How Was R&AW Started: Story of India’s External Intelligence Agency, WION (2022) [Article] RAW: A History of India’s Covert Operations, Yatish Yadav, New Indian Express (2020) Books The War that Made R&AW, A. Nandakumar (Westland, 2021) JFK’s Forgotten Crisis: Tibet, the CIA and the Sino-Indian War, B. Riedel (BIP, 2015) Intelligence Elsewhere, P. Davies & K. Gustafson (GUP, 2013) The Kaoboys & R&AW, B Raman (Lancer, 2012) India’s External Intelligence, V.K. Singh (ManasPub, 2007) Articles History of RAW, Sachidananda Mohanty, Frontline (2022) A Peek Into India’s IB and RAW, Amjed Jaaved, Pakistan Today (2022) Inside R&AW, Rahul Bedi, The Wire: India (2020) Quiet Americans in India, P. McGarr, Diplomatic History, 38(5), 2014 (1046-1082) Videos Ex-Israel Spy Chief Talks Intelligence Cooperation with India, The Quint, YouTube (n.d.) Ex R&AW Chief Vikram Sood Gives a Glimpse of the World of Spies, The Quint, YouTube (n.d.) *Wildcard Resource* “The James Bond of India” Real-life spy Ajit Doval who spent years undercover in Pakistan He is currently the National Security Advisor of India!  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

28 Juni 202258min

Summary Ellen McCarthy (Twitter; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss her career and time as head of the State Department’s intelligence agency. INR is one of the 18 U.S. intelligence agencies. What You’ll Learn Intelligence Her start as a Soviet submarine analyst in the Office of Naval Intelligence  Bringing the U.S. Coast Guard intel. program into the Intelligence Community (IC)  Working for DoD and Geospatial-Intelligence Why she admires the Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR)  Reflections Government/for-profit/non-profit life Managing complexity and change  And much, much more… Episode Notes Imagine seeing a pyramid from different angles and different heights instead of from one vantage point? You get a better sense of what it truly looks like, its dimensions, colors, idiosyncrasies, and the shadows it casts, right? Ellen McCarthy has seen more of the U.S. Intelligence Community (IC) pyramid than most: she started as a junior analyst for the U.S. Navy Office of Naval Intelligence and ended up as the head of the State Dept.’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR). Along the way, she was with the U.S. Coast Guard, in the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence, and at the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency.  Quite the journey, I am sure you will agree… And… INR has been called the “biggest little intelligence shop in town” and its morning intelligence summary, “Better than Wheaties.” The NYT called it the “least wrong” intelligence agency on Iraq possessing weapons of mass destruction (WMD), and it has been credited for a more accurate assessment of Ukraine’s ability to withstand Russia than its peers. “They get paid attention to because they’re good and they tend to be contrarian,” notes a former chair of the National Intelligence Council. How do they manage this? Well, big question, but the deep, deep expertise of their staff – who are on average on their regional or functional area for over a decade – as well as an “intolerance for mediocrity” would be good places to start. Quote of the Week "The Geographer of the United States sits in INR. I don't think a lot of people know that. So, when there's a boundary dispute or you've got countries trying to build islands, it's INR that's actually working what the legal boundaries are. The other thing that INR does that a lot of folks don't know about is polling. Polling in the intelligence community is conducted at INR…And I will tell you that the polling capability at INR is the best I've ever seen." – Ellen McCarthy  Resources *SpyCasts* “State Department Intelligence: Inside the INR” – INR Leadership (2020) Beginner Resources Bureau of Intelligence and Research, Wikipedia [webpage] Learn About the Smallest Organization in the IC, YouTube (n.d.) [1:45 minute] Geographer of the United States, YouTube, (2011) [13:24 minute] Books “Intelligence Informs Policymaking at DoS: INR,” T. King in T. Juneau, ed. Strategic Analysis in Support of Policymaking, R&L (2017), pp. 95-110. Reducing Uncertainty: Intelligence Analysis & National Security, T. Fingar, SUP (2011) INR, Intelligence & Research at State, U.S. DoS (1973) Article The U.S. Intelligence Community Needs a ‘Wild Bill’ Moment, E. McCarthy & M. Scott, Cipher Brief (2021) Video SPYCHAT: Ellen McCarthy & Chris Costa, YouTube (2021) The New IC: Ellen McCarthy Keynote, YouTube (2019) FedMentor: NGA’s Ellen McCarthy, YouTube (2014) Primary Sources INR: 2025 Strategic Plan (2022) Oral History with Teresita Schaeffer (1998) Oral History with Thomas F. Conlon (1992) Oral History with Frank Burnet, (1990) Oral History with Daniel Zachary (1989) *Wildcard Resource* The Ralph J. Bunche Library State Dept. Library named after OSS intelligence analyst, diplomat & Nobel Prize Winner Dr. Bunche Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

21 Juni 202233min

Summary Ellen McCarthy (Twitter; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss her career and time as head of the State Department’s intelligence agency. INR is one of the 18 U.S. intelligence agencies. What You’ll Learn Intelligence Her start as a Soviet submarine analyst in the Office of Naval Intelligence  Bringing the U.S. Coast Guard intel. program into the Intelligence Community (IC)  Working for DoD and Geospatial-Intelligence Why she admires the Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR)  Reflections Government/for-profit/non-profit life Managing complexity and change  And much, much more… Episode Notes Imagine seeing a pyramid from different angles and different heights instead of from one vantage point? You get a better sense of what it truly looks like, its dimensions, colors, idiosyncrasies, and the shadows it casts, right? Ellen McCarthy has seen more of the U.S. Intelligence Community (IC) pyramid than most: she started as a junior analyst for the U.S. Navy Office of Naval Intelligence and ended up as the head of the State Dept.’s Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR). Along the way, she was with the U.S. Coast Guard, in the Office of the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence, and at the National Geospatial-Intelligence Agency.  Quite the journey, I am sure you will agree… And… INR has been called the “biggest little intelligence shop in town” and its morning intelligence summary, “Better than Wheaties.” The NYT called it the “least wrong” intelligence agency on Iraq possessing weapons of mass destruction (WMD), and it has been credited for a more accurate assessment of Ukraine’s ability to withstand Russia than its peers. “They get paid attention to because they’re good and they tend to be contrarian,” notes a former chair of the National Intelligence Council. How do they manage this? Well, big question, but the deep, deep expertise of their staff – who are on average on their regional or functional area for over a decade – as well as an “intolerance for mediocrity” would be good places to start. Quote of the Week "The Geographer of the United States sits in INR. I don't think a lot of people know that. So, when there's a boundary dispute or you've got countries trying to build islands, it's INR that's actually working what the legal boundaries are. The other thing that INR does that a lot of folks don't know about is polling. Polling in the intelligence community is conducted at INR…And I will tell you that the polling capability at INR is the best I've ever seen." – Ellen McCarthy  Resources *SpyCasts* “State Department Intelligence: Inside the INR” – INR Leadership (2020) Beginner Resources Bureau of Intelligence and Research, Wikipedia [webpage] Learn About the Smallest Organization in the IC, YouTube (n.d.) [1:45 minute] Geographer of the United States, YouTube, (2011) [13:24 minute] Books “Intelligence Informs Policymaking at DoS: INR,” T. King in T. Juneau, ed. Strategic Analysis in Support of Policymaking, R&L (2017), pp. 95-110. Reducing Uncertainty: Intelligence Analysis & National Security, T. Fingar, SUP (2011) INR, Intelligence & Research at State, U.S. DoS (1973) Article The U.S. Intelligence Community Needs a ‘Wild Bill’ Moment, E. McCarthy & M. Scott, Cipher Brief (2021) Video SPYCHAT: Ellen McCarthy & Chris Costa, YouTube (2021) The New IC: Ellen McCarthy Keynote, YouTube (2019) FedMentor: NGA’s Ellen McCarthy, YouTube (2014) Primary Sources INR: 2025 Strategic Plan (2022) Oral History with Teresita Schaeffer (1998) Oral History with Thomas F. Conlon (1992) Oral History with Frank Burnet, (1990) Oral History with Daniel Zachary (1989) *Wildcard Resource* The Ralph J. Bunche Library State Dept. Library named after OSS intelligence analyst, diplomat & Nobel Prize Winner Dr. Bunche Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

14 Juni 202253min

Summary Mike Burgess (Website; Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss his agency and the enduring strength of Australia’s alliances. ASIO is the second intelligence agency he has directed. What You’ll Learn Intelligence The Australian idea of “mateship” in the intelligence context The Australian intelligence landscape  The United States as its most important strategic alliance The enduring value and historical uniqueness of the FIVE EYES alliance Reflections How Man. Utd. might help us understand leadership The frustrations of watching spy fiction on TV as a practitioner  And much, much more… Episode Notes The top job: what is it like? what are the joys and pains of leadership? This is not like leading a business, though, or a soccer team, this is protecting the country and its citizens from terrorism, espionage, sabotage, and external interference. Such is the charge of the Australian Security Intelligence Organization (ASIO). To address these questions, Andrew sat down with Mike Burgess, who was formerly the Director-General of the Australian Signals Directorate (ASD), comparable to GCHQ and the NSA – an agency would serve in for over 20 years. They also discussed the Australian intelligence landscape and its most important alliances, such as the U.S. and FIVE EYES and some of its important regional relationships.  And… Mike and Andrew hit it off, especially when discussing Alex Ferguson and how soccer can help us understand management and leadership. Ferguson won more titles in soccer than any other manager, at 49, and he is generally considered the GOAT or a strong contender. Of course, trophies are extremely important, but they do not capture everything. If you are looking for an example of transformational change of an entire organization and its subsequent culture, HBS could do a lot worse than draft a case study on the legendary leadership of Liverpool F.C. by Bill Shankly. He made people believe. Quote of the Week Talking about FIVE EYES, that's one of those foundational partnerships in our relationships…It's unique because…it was born through WWII. It's an interesting phenomenon because it started its life as a signals intelligence relationship…at its core, it's an intelligence relationship that really has made a difference to each of those five nations’ respective national security…And we do trust each other, and we share our most intimate secrets. Resources *SpyCasts* “Keeping Secrets/Disclosing Secrets” – with Spy Chief turned DG of Australia’s National Archives David Fricker (2022) “Desperately, Madly in Love” – Brett Peppler and the Australian IC (2021) Beginner Resources Australian Intelligence Community, Wikipedia [webpage] Australian Security and Intelligence Organization (ASIO) [Website] Why I Spy, M. Burgess, YouTube (n.d.) [60 second video] Intelligence Professionals FAQ, ASIO, YouTube (n.d.) [2:32 minute video] Virtual Exhibition Spy: Espionage in Australia (NAA) Books Spies & Sparrows: ASIO & the Cold War, P. Deery (2022) Between Five Eyes, A. Wells (2020) Intelligence & the Function of Government, D. Baldino & E. Crawley (2018) The Official History of ASIO – 3 Volumes, D. Horner, J. Blaxland, R. Crawley (2014/2015/2016) Report Intelligence Oversight: A Comparison of the FIVE EYES Nations, C. Baker et.al., Parliament of Australia (2017)  Primary Sources Director-General’s Annual Threat Assessment (2022) Foreign Espionage: An Australian Perspective, ASIS DG (2022) ASIO Internal Message on Vietnam War (1970) Surveillance of the Aarons, Communist Party Australia (1966)  Counterespionage Film, ASIO (1963) Citizenship for former Soviet Spies, Petrovs (1956) *Wildcard Resource* Sydney vs. Melbourne: The Real Canberra Story If you’ve ever wondered why Canberra is the capital… Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

7 Juni 20221h 1min

Summary Paul Lashmar (Twitter, Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss investigative journalism and intelligence. He is a former UK Reporter of the Year.  What You’ll Learn Intelligence The similarities and differences between spooks and journalists  The role Watergate played for his generation of journalists  Intelligence overseers as “Ostriches,” “Cheerleaders,” “Lemon-suckers,” or “Guardians” Bellingcat, Spycatcher and the “Zinoviev Letter” Reflections The long shadow of the Second World War Investigative journalism in democratic societies And much, much more… Episode Notes “Cardiac stimulating experiences,” is how this week’s guest describes meeting sources in smoky IRA pubs in Belfast all on his lonesome. But he also met sources in the oak-paneled clubs of Whitehall and in many other places around the world. So, what has our guest distilled from his long career examining intelligence agencies? What are the types of relationships spooks and journalists have had with one another? What are the similarities and differences between both tribes? To answer these questions and more, Andrew sat down with investigative reporter and current Head of the Dept. of Journalism at City, University of London, Paul Lashmar. Paul has worked across the media landscape, as a producer for the BBC, as a broadcast journalist with British current affairs television program World in Action, and as an investigative journalist for the Observer newspaper. He won Reporter of the Year in the 1986 UK Press Awards. He is the author of Spy Flights of the Cold War, Britain’s Secret Propaganda War, and most recently Spies, Spin and the Fourth Estate.  And… World in Action was a legendary investigative TV program in the U.K. It’s programming led to the resignation of a Home Secretary, one of the Great Offices of State in the UK; the release of the Birmingham Six, who were wrongfully convicted of planting IRA bombs; and the exposure of Combat-18, a violent neo-Nazi movement. It would also publish the original story of the Spycatcher allegations that the head of MI5 was a Soviet mole and that there had been a joint MI5-MI6 plot to overthrow Labor Prime Minister Harold Wilson. Paul co-wrote that 1984 episode. For all these reasons and more, it was rarely out of the courts. The last series was broadcast in 1998.  Quote of the Week "They would meet you in an up-market club in the center of London…it's leather Chesterfields, gentleman walking around getting your gin and tonic. It was all of that, in those days it was all informal…there are now in most newspapers, somebody who is usually appointed by the editor who maintains those connections… it's a sensible arrangement." – Paul Lashmar Resources Headline Resource Spies, Spin and the Fourth Estate, P. Lashmar (EUP, 2021) *SpyCasts* The Women of NatSec Journalism – 6 Leading Journalists (2017) Covering Intelligence (2015) Part 1: with Mark Mazzetti Part 2 – with Ali Watkins Part 3 – with Greg Miller Books Zinoviev Letter, G. Bennett (OUP, 2020) Spies and the Media in Britain, R. Norton-Taylor (IBT, 2018) Spinning Intelligence, R. Dover and M. Goodman (CUP, 2009) Spycatcher, P. Wright (Viking, 1987) Beginner Articles UK Officials Still Blocking SpyCatcher Files, Guardian (2021) The Zinoviev Letter, FT (2018) When Spy Agencies Didn’t Exist, BBC (2014) Articles Why Good Investigative Journalism Matters (2022) Obituary: Peter Wright, Independent (1995) Documentary “World in Action,” YouTube (n.d.) Primary Sources The Spy Who Never Was [World In Action] (1984) Moscow Orders to Our Reds [Daily Mail Accusation] (1924) Zinoviev Denies Writing Letter (1924) Zinoviev Narrative of Facts [TUC & Labour Party] (1924) *Wildcard Resource* How Bellingcat is Using TikTok to Investigate the War in Ukraine Investigative journalism, Bellingcat style! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

31 Maj 20221h 3min

Summary Admiral Hernando Wills Velez (Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss intelligence in Colombia. He is the former professional head of the Colombian Navy. What You’ll Learn Intelligence What it is like to be the head of an entire Navy Intelligence from the point of view of a senior military officer The unique set of challenges Colombia faces – insurgents, terrorists, paramilitaries, drug-cartels, etc. The role intelligence played in the daring Operation Jacque  Reflections The blessings and curses of geography  Capacity building in organizations And much, much more… Episode Notes To hear more about his remarkable career as former professional head of the Colombian Navy, and to discuss Colombia and intelligence, Andrew sat down with Admiral Hernando Wills Vélez.  Colombia and its navy must reckon with a unique combination of challenges – including Marxist insurgents, right-wing paramilitaries, drug cartels, crime syndicates, and a vast and diverse territory. To sum up, it is a remarkably fascinating case-study for the role intelligence might play. Admiral Wills was also the commander of the Pacific Fleet, head of the Colombian Coast Guard, and a former aide de camp to the President of Colombia. His father was a career military officer who served in the Korean War with the Colombian Navy. He is an NDU graduate. And… “Operation Jacque.”  This episode coincides with a pop-up exhibit at our museum on a 2008 Colombian intelligence-led operation to rescue 15 hostages held for many years by the FARC, a Marxist guerilla group who were involved in drug trafficking, extortion, and terrorism. 3 Americans and 12 Colombians were rescued, including a candidate for the Colombian presidency. Bottom line: all the hostages were freed from deep within the rainforest without a single shot being fired. Intelligence baby, intelligence.  Quote of the Week "Time goes so fast. I joined the Navy when I was 15 years old, very young. I finished high school. in the Naval academy. And then you start your regular business as a young lieutenant in ships and destroyers and positions on land. And all of a sudden, you see yourself as an admiral. I mean, it's a crazy thing…[then] I had the privilege to be selected by the president to lead the Columbia Navy." – former Head of Columbia's Navy Admiral Hernando Wills. Resources Headline Resource “Operation Jacque,” International Spy Museum, Spring-Summer 2022 Books Colombia: A Concise Contemporary History, M. Larosa & G. Mejía (R&L, 2017) Out of Captivity: Surviving 1967 Days in the Colombian Jungle, M. Gonsalves, et al. (W. Morrow, 2009) Beginner Articles Colombia Profile – Timeline, BBC (2018) Colombia – CIA World Factbook, CIA (2022) Colombia Marks One Year Anniversary of Jaque, Reuters (2009) Colombia – Navy, Global Security (n.d.) Articles Anchoring the Caribbean: The Colombian Navy, W. Mills, Stable Seas (2021) Colombia & Operation Jacque, L. Collins, Modern War Institute (2021) Plan Colombia and the U.S. Army’s 7th Special Forces Group, K. Higgins, Taylor Francis (2021) Plan Colombia: Effectiveness & Costs, D. Mejía, Brookings (2016) Globalization & FARC, J. Forero, USAWC (2013) FARC: A Portrait of Insurgent Intelligence, J. Gentry & D. Spencer, INS (2010) Videos FARC Hostage Rescue Video – Operation Jacque, CBS (2008) Primary Sources Revocation of Terrorist Designation for FARC, A. Blinken, State (2021) Plan Colombia – Staff Trip Report, Senate Foreign Relations Committee (2005) Plan Colombia, U.S. Role – Hearing, House Subcommittee on the W. Hemisphere (2000) NSC 1 – Carter Panama Canal Directive (1977) Letter to U.S. Senators From Carter – Panama Canal (1977) *Wildcard Resource* One Hundred years of Solitude (novel), Embrace of the Serpent (movie), or Adventures of an Orchid Hunter (travel memoir) – take your pick! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

24 Maj 20221h 7min

Summary Peter Earnest spent 35 years in the CIA as a case officer and retired as its chief spokesman. He was the founding Executive Director of the International Spy Museum. What You’ll Learn Intelligence Losing a friend in the line of duty vs. betrayal by a colleague  Using affability to your advantage Thoughts on the shift from classic espionage to counterterrorism for the CIA  The relationship between the CIA, the press and the public Reflections The origins of the International Spy Museum The role museums can play in fostering a sense of collective identity & esprit de corps  And much, much more… Episode Notes May 21st, 2022. The date of the Memorial Service at the International Spy Museum for Peter Earnest, the founding Executive Director of the museum and a 35-year veteran of the CIA and. In honor of him, his week’s episode is an exit-interview he recorded with my predecessor, Vince Houghton, not long after Peter announced his retirement from the museum. Peter was a case officer at CIA for 25 years, largely in Europe and the Middle East, recruiting and running agents, and getting involved in covert actions, counterespionage, and double agent operations. He later went on to work in the Inspector General’s office and as the CIA’s Senate liaison, concluding his career as the CIA’s chief spokesman.  What is it like being a nice guy in the murky world of intelligence? How does a tight-lipped case officer make the transition to chief spokesman? How did a museum on espionage and intelligence end up in Washington D.C.? Peter Earnest died on February 13, 2022. He will be sorely missed. And… Peter wrote the foreword for a 2011 edition of Boy Scout founder Robert Baden-Powell’s classic book, My Adventures as a Spy, featuring chapters such as “Commercial Spying,” “Traitorous Spying,” and “How Spies Disguise Themselves.” The only CIA officer who came through the ranks to become Director, Robert Gates, was an Eagle Scout, as was the only Director of both the CIA and the FBI, Judge William Webster. Quote of the Week "There's a broad respect from museums by the American public they're distrustful of almost everything else, but the trust in museums is high, and so I think it's a place that some of those senior professionals refer to. If they've come down, they feel, it's, doing good work." – Peter Earnest Resources Headline Resource TRIBUTE: CIA Veteran Who Helped Launch the Spy Museum, Dies at 88, International Spy Museum, YouTube (2022) *SpyCasts Peter Earnest: My Life in the CIA (2012) Articles In Memoriam, Peter Earnest, 1934-2022, SPY (2022) CIA Veteran who Ran a Spy Museum, Dies at 88, NYT (2022) CIA Veteran Who Helped Launch Spy Museum, Dies at 88, H. Smith, WaPo (2022) Family of Spies, Washingtonian Magazine (2013) Books The Real Spy’s Guide to Becoming a Spy, P. Earnest (Harper, 2009) Business Confidential: Lessons for Corporate Success from Inside the CIA, P. Earnest & M. Karinch (AMACOM, 2010)  Harry Potter and the Art of Spying, P. Earnest & S. Harper (Wise Ink, 2014) Primary Sources Soviet Defector Arkady Shevchenko Dies, WaPo (1998) Emily A. Earnest, Consular Office Obituary, WaPo (1994) CIA Officer Richard Welch Murdered in Athens, CIA (1975) CIA COS Richard Welch Murdered in Athens, Counterspy Magazine Blamed for his Death, British Pathe (1975) *Wildcard Resource* Colbert Classic, Spy Training with Peter Earnest, Comedy Central (2013) Go to 3:31  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

17 Maj 202253min

Summary Lis Wiehl (Twitter, Website) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the FBI Agent Robert Hanssen. His espionage for the Russians was described as the “worst intelligence disaster in U.S. history.”  What You’ll Learn Intelligence The many contradictions of this fragmented personality The criminal sworn FBI Agent The sexual fetishist in Opus Dei The anti-communist Soviet spy Hanssen’s impact on the FBI and American Intelligence How the Hanssen case effected the FBI-CIA relationship  Reflections Technology’s impact on the espionage/counterespionage cat-and-mouse game Cultural and institutional blind spots And much, much more… Episode Notes The International Spy Museum has the handcuffs that were put on one of the most notorious spies in American history, former FBI Agent Robert Hanssen. But what was the backstory of the moment those metal restraints closed around his wrists in Foxstone Park, Virginia? What did he do? Why did he do it? Who was this man? What damage did he do? To discuss these questions, Andrew sat down with the author of A Spy in Plain Sight, Lis Wiehl. Lis is a former Federal Prosecutor and a legal analyst and reporter on major news networks, including a 15-year stint at Fox News. She is the best-selling author of 20 fiction and non-fiction books and last but not least she is the daughter of an FBI Agent who heard stories of Hanssen’s betrayal from her father. Hanssen betrayed “jewel in the crown of American intelligence, Dimitri Polyakov, and other U.S. assets, as well as handing over thousands of pages of highly classified information to the Soviet Union and later Russia. And… In the intelligence community compartmentalization is a way to try to protect sensitive information, caveats, codewords, clearances, read ins, need to know, etc., but in the personal context it refers to being capable of being a “different person in terms of outlook, values and behavior at different times and circumstances.” David Charney met with Hanssen for an entire year after his arrest and described him as “the most compartmentalized person I have ever met.” He also mentions that he is a very experienced psychiatrist. Charney says in terms of compartmentalization most of us are a 1-2 on a scale of 10. Guess where Hanssen was? Quote of the Week "At one point hacked into one of his colleagues’ computers to get more information, he was found out and his excuse was, I was just trying to show you how easily we're hacked into so that we can make sure that we don’t, and they believed him because he was a computer guy…they just believed him when he hacked in this other person's computer. Crazy." – Lis Wiehl Resources Headline Resource A Spy in Plain Sight, L. Wiehl (S&S, 2022) *SpyCasts* “The FBI Way” - Counterintelligence Chief Frank Figliuzzi “Leningrad, Molehunts, and Life After the CIA” - Christopher Burgess (2021) “Defending a Spy, An Espionage Attorney” - Plato Cacheris (2015) “The Movie Breach and Hollywood’s Take on Espionage” – Eric O’Neill (2007) “FBI Counterintelligence and the Robert Hanssen Spy Case” – Dave Major (2007) Books New History of Soviet Intelligence, J. Haslam (FS&J, 2015) Spy Handler, V. Cherkashin, (Basic, 2008) Articles Spy Who Kept Cold War Cold – Polyakov, History (2019) Spy Psychology/Insider Spies, NOIR (2014) Death of the Perfect Spy – Polyakov, Time (2001) Videos Charney on What Makes Traitors Tick? SPY (2014) Primary Sources Witness to History at SPY, Hanssen Investigation (2013) Review on FBI Performance Detecting Hanssen, OIG (2003)  A Review of FBI Security Programs, Webster Commission (2002) Sandy Grimes Interview on Polyakov (1998) *Wildcard Resource* Inside the Supermax Prison (Florence, Colorado)  Hanssen is here alongside Harold James Nicholson, El Chapo, Ramzi Yousef and Terry Nichols Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

10 Maj 202253min