Let Them Eat Meat: There is Nothing Wrong With Rearing and Killing Animals for Human Consumption

Let Them Eat Meat: There is Nothing Wrong With Rearing and Killing Animals for Human Consumption

This event took place on the 31st of October at the Royal Institution in London. CHAIR: Afua Hirsch - Writer and broadcaster SPEAKERS FOR THE MOTION: AA Gill - The Sunday Times’s star restaurant and TV critic AGAINST THE MOTION: George Monbiot - Guardian columnist, environmental campaigner and author of Regenesis: Feeding the World without Devouring the Planet Fancy a nice juicy steak? Most of us do from time to time, and we don’t trouble our consciences too much with the rights and wrongs of eating meat. Others, while vaguely aware that we ought to go vegan, just can’t face the rest of our lives denying ourselves bacon, beef, butter etc. But once we start looking into the arguments for veganism, it becomes difficult to justify the omnivore diet. Take the environment for starters. Livestock farming has a massive impact on the planet, producing around 14% of carbon dioxide equivalent emissions according to the UN. That’s roughly the same as the total amount of global transport emissions. Animals are extremely inefficient processors of the maize and soya that farmers grow to feed them. If we ate those crops ourselves instead of feeding them to livestock, we could free up hundreds of millions of hectares of rainforests, savannahs and wetlands where wild animals could flourish instead. And then there are the arguments about animal welfare. Recent scientific research indicates what many of us feel we already know – that animals have complex emotional lives not dissimilar to our own. Intensive farming – the kind that confines hens, pigs and cattle to squalid indoor pens – thwarts their instincts to move around freely and build social bonds with their group. Tens of billions of animals exist in this way, and that’s before their short lives are ended in the horror house of the abattoir. As for those who say a vegan diet isn’t healthy, elite athletes who have made the switch, including world tennis No 1 Novak Djokovic, prove you don’t need animal protein to excel at the highest levels in sport. On the other side of the argument we developed as omnivores and every human culture has its culinary traditions, based on the taste and aesthetics of meat and dairy. Do we really want to live in a world where there is no beef Wellington or cheese soufflé? As for the environmentalist arguments, omnivores now have some serious eco-credentials behind them. A study at Cornell University shows that a diet that includes a few small portions of grass-fed meat a week may actually be greener than eating no animal products at all. And when it comes to animal welfare, rather than abandoning animal products altogether, couldn’t we do more good by pressing for genuinely transparent labelling of our meat and dairy? If consumers really know what they are getting, fewer people might be willing to buy the £3 chicken produced in the barbaric conditions of the agricultural industry. As for a vegan diet being healthier, we should stop giving airtime to self-appointed health experts and lifestyle bloggers. Some dieticians argue that there are nutrients we need that we just can’t get from plants alone. Yes, we can get calcium from kale and iron from beans, but the quantity, quality and bio-availability of such elements are far better when we get them from animal rather than plant sources. — We’d love to hear your feedback and what you think we should talk about next, who we should have on and what our future debates should be. Send us an email or voice note with your thoughts to podcasts@intelligencesquared.com or Tweet us @intelligence2. And if you’d like to support our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations, as well as ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content, early access and much more, become a supporter of Intelligence Squared today. Just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Rachel Cusk on Art, Womanhood and Redefining Fiction, Part One

Rachel Cusk on Art, Womanhood and Redefining Fiction, Part One

This is the first instalment of three-part discussion. The writing of Rachel Cusk poses us constant challenges. Her critically acclaimed Outline trilogy and memoirs – A Life’s Work and Aftermath – dared us to rethink the limits of character, identity and what it means to be a woman. Arguably, no writer working today has pushed the boundaries of contemporary writing and storytelling as far. She recently came to Intelligence Squared to discuss her exhilarating new novel Parade live onstage at London's Union Chapel. This work promises to once again expand the notion of what fiction can be and do. Joining Cusk in conversation was the writer and literary director of Shakespeare & Co bookstore in Paris, Adam Biles. We are sponsored by Indeed. Go to Indeed.com/IS for £100 sponsored credit. This is the first instalment of three-part discussion. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all three parts immediately and all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events - Our member-only newsletter The Monthly Read, sent straight to your inbox ... Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series ... Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. ... Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

14 Juni 202439min

Sotheby's Talks – William Blake: Artist, Poet and Visionary, with Andrew Graham-Dixon and John Higgs

Sotheby's Talks – William Blake: Artist, Poet and Visionary, with Andrew Graham-Dixon and John Higgs

With a rare first edition of William Blake’s Songs of Innocence and of Experience about to go under the hammer, in this episode a panel of experts have come together for a conversation about the poet, artist and visionary. Chair and cultural critic Shahidha Bari is joined by art historian Andrew Graham-Dixon, cultural historian John Higgs and Sotheby’s Selby Kiffer to explore the enduring legacy of this enigmatic genius, whose influence stretches from the psychedelic counterculture of the 1960s through to the video games, novels and designer fashion of the 21st century. This podcast was recorded at Sotheby’s London in June 2024. And, to step further into the world of Sotheby’s, you can visit any of our galleries around the world; they’re open to the public. For more information, visit sothebys.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

11 Juni 20241h

The New Colonialism of Big Tech, with Nick Couldry and Ulises A. Mejias

The New Colonialism of Big Tech, with Nick Couldry and Ulises A. Mejias

Who owns and profits from our data, both big and small, has become one of the defining issues of the post-internet age. In their new book, Data Grab, critical media theorist Ulises A. Mejias and sociologist of media and culture Nick Couldry argue that big tech companies are taking away private citizens' most basic natural online resource and in the process establishing a new form of oppressive digital colonialism. Joining them to discuss the book is the writer and presenter Timandra Harkness, whose own books include Big Data: Does Size Matter? And the recent Technology is Not the Problem. We are sponsored by Indeed. Go to Indeed.com/IS for £100 sponsored credit. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events - Our member-only newsletter The Monthly Read, sent straight to your inbox ... Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series ... Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. ... Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

10 Juni 202448min

The Story of the Challenger Space Shuttle Disaster, with Adam Higginbotham

The Story of the Challenger Space Shuttle Disaster, with Adam Higginbotham

The voyage of the space shuttle Challenger on the morning of January 28th, 1986, lasted just minutes before it broke up mid-flight. The tragic outcome for its lost crew has cast a shadow over space travel for decades since. But how did that disaster unfold? And what is its legacy for space exploration today? These are some of the questions being asked in journalist and author Adam Higginbotham’s new book, Challenger: A True Story of Heroism and Disaster on the Edge of Space. Higginbotham’s previous book was Midnight in Chernobyl, which covered the synonymous nuclear disaster and was one of the the New York Times’ Ten Best Books of 2019. His writing has appeared in magazines including The New York Times Magazine, The New Yorker, Wired and more. He’s also the former US correspondent for The Sunday Telegraph Magazine and former Editor-in-Chief of The Face. Joining Higginbotham in conversation for this episode is the technology researcher, author and co-founder of the Centre for the Analysis of Social Media at Demos, Carl Miller. We are sponsored by Indeed. Go to Indeed.com/IS for £100 sponsored credit. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events - Our member-only newsletter The Monthly Read, sent straight to your inbox ... Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series ... Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. ... Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

9 Juni 202442min

Archive – How I Found My Voice: Michael Palin

Archive – How I Found My Voice: Michael Palin

This is an archive episode from 2019 from the second series of How I Found My Voice, a podcast from Intelligence Squared. Presented by the BBC journalist Samira Ahmed, the podcast explores how some of the world's greatest artists and thinkers became such compelling – and unique – communicators. In this episode Samira speaks to the actor, writer and comedian Michael Palin. Part of the legendary Monty Python comedy group, Palin has helped shape British comedy on our TV screens. From growing up with a father who stuttered to finding his comedy partners and travelling the world, Palin speaks about the moments that shaped and inspired his voice. We are sponsored by Indeed. Go to Indeed.com/IS for £100 sponsored credit. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events - Our member-only newsletter The Monthly Read, sent straight to your inbox ... Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series ... Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. ... Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

6 Juni 20241h

The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan

The Volatile Future of US Politics, with Robert Kagan

There's rarely a week in which Donald Trump doesn't make the headlines but the last few have been particularly potent with the former US president having been served justice in a US courtroom. One voice who has been vocal in lamenting the transformation of the Republican Party into a vehicle for Trump's agenda is Robert Kagan. He's a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, a historian and contributing columnist at The Washington Post. He has advised on policy for the US State Department for both Republican and Democrat administrations. and some of the Republican party's most prominent voices in recent decades. His latest book is Rebellion: How Antiliberalism Is Tearing America Apart—Again; a reflection on the increasing radicalisation of the Republican Party. Joining Kagan in conversation to talk about it for this episode is Edward Luce, chief US commentator for the Financial Times, based in Washington DC, and author of books including The Retreat of Western Liberalism.  We are sponsored by Indeed. Go to Indeed.com/IS for £100 sponsored credit. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events - Our member-only newsletter The Monthly Read, sent straight to your inbox ... Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series ... Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. ... Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

5 Juni 202455min

Swimming Against the Tide with Athlete Turned Advocate, Rebecca Achieng Ajulu-Bushell

Swimming Against the Tide with Athlete Turned Advocate, Rebecca Achieng Ajulu-Bushell

In a competitive field defined by record breakers, medals and podium places, being first in sport is often considered the primary marker of success but being out in front can also be a lonely experience. In her new memoir, These Heavy Black Bones, former swimmer for both Kenya and Team GB, Rebecca Achieng Ajulu-Bushell, tells a story of ecstatic professional highs and alienating personal lows. She is a former world number one athlete who became the first Black woman to represent Great Britain in swimming but who also chose to walk away from the sport shortly before the 2012 Olympics. Since then her achievements have been no less remarkable. She's a filmmaker, an award-winning essayist and heads up the 10,000 Interns Foundation, which helps young people from underrepresented communities get their start. Joining her in conversation for this episode is journalist and podcaster Ruchira Sharma, who is host of the Anatomy of a Stalker and Everything is Content podcasts, and writes for The Guardian, the BBC, GQ and more. We are sponsored by Indeed. Go to Indeed.com/IS for £100 sponsored credit. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events - Our member-only newsletter The Monthly Read, sent straight to your inbox ... Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series ... Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. ... Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

3 Juni 202433min

A History of Nostalgia, with Agnes Arnold-Forster

A History of Nostalgia, with Agnes Arnold-Forster

Writer and historian Agnes Arnold-Forster's most recent book, Nostalgia: A History of a Dangerous Emotion, blends fields such as neuroscience and psychology with social history to explore a feeling that many might view as a simple human fondness for the past. Nostalgia, though, is also vulnerable to misuse, manipulation by unreliable narrators and it often reflects many of our deeper anxieties as a society. Joining her to discuss the book is the scholar, critic and editor Merve Emre, who is Shapiro-Silverberg Professor of Creative Writing and Criticism at Wesleyan University. We are sponsored by Indeed. Go to Indeed.com/IS for £100 sponsored credit. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all of our longer form interviews and Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events - Our member-only newsletter The Monthly Read, sent straight to your inbox ... Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series ... Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. ... Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

2 Juni 202451min

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