Feel free to ignore this podcast episode - Richard Shotton

Today, I’m joined by James Kuczynski, Creative Director at Duolingo, and Dan Salkey, Founding Partner at Small World, for a conversation on how to build truly entertaining brands.Fresh off their SXSW panel titled "Entertain or Die", named after a report by Small World, we explore how Duolingo has built such a standout brand, particularly through the rise (and death...) of their iconic mascot, Duo.In the first half of the episode, I chat with James about Duolingo’s brand success, why they decided to "kill off" their beloved mascot, and how giving creative autonomy to their team has been key to their growth. In the second half, I speak with Dan about the most entertaining brands in the world today—and the specific traits you can apply to make your own brand more entertaining.Download the Entertain or Die report here.Timestamps00:00 - Start00:47 - Part 1: James Kuczynski from Duolingo01:22 - James’ background in marketing03:23 - How James joined Duolingo04:18 - What is Duolingo06:34 - How Duolingo has used gamification to help people learn languages09:47 - How is AI enhancing Duolingo?11:20 - Is AI a threat to Duolingo?12:13 - Why Duolingo created “Duo”, their mascot15:47 - How the Duolingo owl evolved17:56 - Duolingo’s April fools plans20:00 - Why Duolingo killed off their mascot23:57 - The results of Duo killing their mascot25:08 - How partnerships have played a role in the success of Duolingo28:02 - How Duo is bigger than A-list celebrities29:26 - How Duolingo built such a huge social media following32:08 - The importance of being in-house for growing Duolingo33:17 - How Duolingo hires social media talent34:34 - The thing that makes Duolingo stand out36:32 - Part 2: Dan Salkey from Small World37:15 - Why Small World created the Entertain or Die report38:57 - How they identified the most entertaining brands on the planet39:30 - What brands are the most entertaining?40:41 - Why the most boring categories have most space to innovate42:35 - The entertainment gap44:07 - How can brands be more entertaining?49:54 - Final advice on how brands can be more entertaining

23 Apr 53min

In this episode, we deep dive into the irrational world of customer behaviour with legendary behavioural economist Dan Ariely. Dan reveals why we’re all predictably wrong, how tiny invisible cues can radically change price perception, and why effort makes things feel more valuable. We also unpack the real reason people fall for misinformation, how to rebuild trust in broken industries like insurance, and why letting customers choose their own price might just be your smartest move. If you want to understand what truly drives decisions — and how to use that insight to become a better marketer — this one’s unmissable.Timestamps:00:00:00 - Intro00:00:50 - The story of Dan Ariely’s half beard00:07:53 - Dan’s painful introduction into behavioural science00:11:46 - Reaction to Jon’s house tragedy00:15:11 - The hidden truths revealed by social science00:21:43 - Invisible vs visible motivation00:29:20 - How Dan would change insurance companies00:33:30 - Lemonade insurance example00:35:39 - Why the human brain is a vintage Swiss Army knife00:38:08 - How context radically changes price perception (the relativity effect)00:45:01 - Why you should let your customer choose their own price00:47:11 - Why economists donate the least to charities00:49:58 - Why effort greatly increases your price perception01:00:06 - The real cause of misinformation and why it isn’t what you might think01:12:18 - What will be Dan Ariely’s new book?01:13:38 - Why we are so afraid of mistakes

16 Apr 1h 19min

Rory Sutherland returns to the Uncensored CMO podcast, tackling the economic crisis with his signature wit and wisdom. As ever, he offers a refreshingly unconventional perspective on the world’s biggest problems — and marketing’s role in solving them.In this episode, Rory explores why marketing is more like a casino than a science, how to capitalise on your competitors’ blind spots, and what his unexpected TikTok fame has taught him. Expect laughs, left-field insights, and the kind of brilliantly bizarre anecdotes only Rory can deliver.Timestamps00:00 - Intro01:03 - Are we looking in the wrong place for growth?05:33 - Should we slow down our adoption of AI?09:08 - What marketers and the police have in common14:40 - Marketing is a casino17:42 - The most transformative behavioural science insights19:47 - Take what your competition are doing badly and double down on it26:20 - Fame is a luck multiplier32:43 - Why AO add bears to every order37:19 - How Rory would boost growth in the economy?47:13 - What has Rory been profoundly wrong about and why

9 Apr 51min

Scott Galloway (Prof G) has returned to the Uncensored CMO podcast for a second time, in a special live episode. Galloway is Professor of Marketing at NYU Stern School of Business and host of the Prof G and Pivot podcasts. He joins Jon in a special live episode in London and lives up to his billing as the most uncensored guest of all time. Scott takes big swings at the advertising industry throughout the episode - despite the audience of CMOs - claiming that the days of the CMO are numbered. He continues with his damning commentary on why the era of brand is dead, why rage is the new sex, why young men are in trouble and what marketers need to do in the age of AI.Timestamps00:00 - Intro02:15 - How does Scott deal with the online negativity?09:00 - Why the CEO saviours of social media won’t be turning up16:13 - Scott’s thoughts on the Adolescence Netflix show23:51 - Why marketers need to do the hard things27:56 - How does Prof G assess a business opportunity33:36 - What corporate employees can learn from entrepreneurship40:22 - Why the CMOs days are numbered47:33 - How should marketers approach AI56:06 - What things has Prof G been profoundly wrong aboutThank you to System1 for making the live event possible.CreditsHost: Jon EvansExecutive Producer: James McKinvenDirector: Kerry CollingeEvent management: Lara Zwirn, Gen NorrisSocial media: Sam PriceEvent graphics: Colin JenkinsonProduction: Kinura

2 Apr 57min

Live from Adobe Summit in Las Vegas, in this bonus triple header, Jon speaks with Colin Fleming (ServiceNow), Stacy Martinet (Adobe) and Billy Seabrook (IBM) about the hot topic in marketing today, AI, and what a new wave of agentic AI technology means for marketers.Timestamps00:00 - Intro00:51 - Part 1: Colin Fleming01:51 - The things people don’t understand about B2B marketing03:32 - How AI is having an impact on marketing05:29 - ServiceNow’s relationship with Adobe06:21 - Advice to marketers to stay on cutting edge of AI08:47 - Part 2: Billy Seabrook IBM09:17 - Where are we on this AI journey11:31 - Principles of an effective campaign using AI13:02 - How effective has AI been for IBM18:16 - What’s next when AI at scale becomes the norm?21:08 - AI: a threat or an opportunity?22:06 - Part 3: Stacy Martinet22:33 - Stacy’s role at Adobe23:18 - What makes great marketing for marketers?24:12 - Communicating all the changes in marketing (specifically with AI)25:15 - What is Agentic AI and what are it’s use cases?28:27 - How technology is used to enhance creativity30:31 - Tips on how to utilize agentic AI31:43 - How to future proof our marketing32:48 - What goes into creating an event like Adobe Summit00:00 - Intro00:51 - Part 1: Colin Fleming01:51 - The things people don’t understand about B2B marketing03:32 - How AI is having an impact on marketing05:29 - ServiceNow’s relationship with Adobe06:21 - Advice to marketers to stay on cutting edge of AI08:47 - Part 2: Billy Seabrook IBM09:17 - Where are we on this AI journey11:31 - Principles of an effective campaign using AI13:02 - How effective has AI been for IBM18:16 - What’s next when AI at scale becomes the norm?21:08 - AI: a threat or an opportunity?22:06 - Part 3: Stacy Martinet22:33 - Stacy’s role at Adobe23:18 - What makes great marketing for marketers?24:12 - Communicating all the changes in marketing (specifically with AI)25:15 - What is Agentic AI and what are it’s use cases?28:27 - How technology is used to enhance creativity30:31 - Tips on how to utilize agentic AI31:43 - How to future proof our marketing32:48 - What goes into creating an event like Adobe Summit

31 Mars 35min

Seth Matlins is the Managing Director of the Forbes Forbes CMO Network, where he oversees the annual Forbes World's Most Influential CMOs List, the Forbes Entrepreneurial CMO 50 List, the Forbes CMO Summit, the Forbes European CMO Summit, and an expanding marketing content portfolio. Seth is an award-winning marketer, who has spent a career in and advising the C-suite of dozens of the 100 most valuable brands globally.Timestamps00:00 - Intro00:45 - Seth’s new podcast02:58 - Why are there not enough CMOs becoming CEOs05:28 - Marketing needs much better marketing07:36 - Seth’s career history08:00 - Working jobs that have never existed before11:41 - Scars from being a failed entrepreneur13:24 - Making unexpected connections between fields18:23 - Why organisations need to trust their marketers20:26 - What makes a CMO influential26:29 - Everyone is a brand manager28:35 - How CMOs can be more influential35:13 - The world’s most entrepreneurial CMOs41:12 - What makes a CMO entrepreneurial46:22 - Doing a lot with little47:02 - What is changing for CMOs in 2025

26 Mars 50min

Today Jon talks with Eugenia Zalis, CMO for one of the most iconic sweet brands in the world, Oreo. We talk about their "stay playful" positioning, incredible brand collaborations (with the likes of Coca-Cola and Post Malone) and some of the interesting innovations the brand has worked on.Timestamps00:00 - Intro00:46 - Eugenia’s marketing journey01:33 - What can we learn from the Unilever approach to marketing?02:27 - How Dove turned into the brand it is today05:42 - How Eugenia started with Oreo06:33 - The “stay playful” positioning09:49 - The best way to eat an Oreo cookie11:08 - Managing a 110 year old brand12:14 - The Oreo playbook for marketing in different regions15:18 - Oreo’s collab with Coca-Cola18:49 - Oreo’s approach to innovation21:14 - System1 testing on Oreo innovations23:40 - Innovations from around the world25:23 - The surprising Coca-Cola collaboration25:52 - Oreo’s SuperBowl ad in 202428:34 - Winning a Cannes Lion for a tweet30:34 - Why is humour not used more35:37 - Oreo x Post Malone collab38:07 - Creative process for collabs39:02 - How to lead a $4.5b organisation43:57 - Advice to aspiring CMOs

19 Mars 47min

Cadillac is an iconic American brand who are navigating the shift to electrification in the automotive industry and have partnered up with 72andSunny to launch their brand new campaign “Let’s Take the Cadillac. So today, Melissa Grady Dias, CMO of Cadillac, and Marianne Malina, President of 72andSunny join Jon to talk about working with a new agency and launching their first campaign together.Timestamps00:00 - Intro03:53 - Marianne’s background06:49 - How to manage a brand like Cadillac08:34 - How EV’s are changing the industry13:53 - How do you change your marketing for EVs15:08 - Insights and inception of “Let’s Take the Cadillac”17:56 - Developing the “Let’s Take the Cadillac” campaign21:41 - How to launch a new car23:39 - Building the campaign for different formats25:42 - 72andSunny and Cadillac’s first campaign together28:11 - Challenging the conformity in car advertising30:48 - Why brand is so important for car purchasing32:31 - Leading the marketing agenda inside a big org like General Motors34:24 - In car Cadillac Car-aoke35:22 - Melissa’s song36:13 - Coolest feature about Escalade IQ38:37 - Creating a luxury experience39:27 - Choosing your car as CMO of Cadillac40:57 - Creating a premium vehicle42:53 - Thoughts on the Escalade IQ

12 Mars 45min