Ep. 432 AI in Medicine: Navigating the New Frontier with Confidence with Dr. Matthew Lungren

In the second part of this series, host Ally Baheti interviews interventional radiologists Donald Garbett and Nicholas Petruzzi about starting their outpatient based labs (OBLs) within a combined IR/DR group. They discuss the rewards of having an outpatient practice and how they navigate challenges that arise during the practice-building journey. --- CHECK OUT OUR SPONSORS BD Rotarex Atherectomy System https://www.bd.com/rotarex Surmodics Sublime Radial Access Platform https://sublimeradial.com/ --- SHOW NOTES We begin by discussing real estate decisions and the construction process. Dr. Petruzzi, started his first two OBLs within the same space as his group’s existing imaging center. While this was cost effective, it also sacrificed the ability to have an ideal layout. As he built more practice locations, he acquired new real estate. Dr. Garbett purchased and re-purposed a property that had previously been a plastic surgery practice. He notes that supply issues are common, and construction usually takes longer than expected. Additionally, the doctors talk about navigating different vendor relationships. They both agree that there is a certain number of vendors that strikes a balance between an appropriate variety of devices and negotiating power with each vendor. They also discuss their choice in EMR provider and different functions that are important to streamlining workflow. Next, we shift to talking about marketing a new practice. Early in the practice lifetime, they emphasize that in-person marketing directed towards referrers is the best way to form long-lasting relationships. Dr. Petruzzi has since hired a marketing team that has specific knowledge of patient populations. His practice’s participation in clinical trials also provides a marketing edge, since patients can have access to novel treatments. One of the biggest challenges to building a practice is finding and training staff. Dr. Garbett highlights the need to communicate with the nursing team prior to initiating procedures. Communication of expectations, sedation level, and post-operative care guidelines can help ensure that a procedure runs smoothly. Dr. Petruzzi relies on procedure and transfer protocols to standardize patient care and manage urgent and emergent events. Finally, both doctors speak about the multidisciplinary nature of their practices. Dr. Petruzzi’s OBL is a collaboration between IR and vascular surgery, while Dr. Garbett’s OBL synthesizes IR, MSK radiology, and physical therapy. --- RESOURCES Building an OBL Within an IR/DR Group, Part 1: https://www.backtable.com/shows/vi/podcasts/213/building-an-obl-within-an-ir-dr-group Atlantic Medical Imaging: https://www.atlanticmedicalimaging.com/ ReNew Institute: https://reneweugene.com/ SIR Practice Development Resources https://www.sirweb.org/practice-resources/practice-development-new/ Outpatient Endovascular & Interventional Society (OEIS): https://oeisweb.com/ Nicholas Petruzzi Twitter: https://twitter.com/mdpetruzzi Donald Garbett Twitter: https://twitter.com/DonGarbettMD

24 Feb 202352min

In this episode, guest host and vascular technologist Jill Sommerset interviews Dr. Mary Costantino (interventional radiologist) and Dr. Miguel Montero-Baker (vascular surgeon) about their perspectives on an ultrasound-first approach to diagnosing and planning treatment for critical limb-threatening ischemia (CLTI). --- CHECK OUT OUR SPONSORS Reflow Medical https://www.reflowmedical.com/ Boston Scientific Drug Elution https://www.bostonscientific.com/en-US/medical-specialties/vascular-surgery/drug-eluting-therapies.html?utm_source=oth_site&utm_medium=native&utm_campaign=pi-at-us-de_portfolio-hci&utm_content=n-backtable-n-backtable_site_portfolio_1_2023&cid=n10012334 --- SHOW NOTES To begin, each doctor shares how ultrasound fits into their practice philosophy. Dr. Costantino is the sole practitioner in her outpatient-based catheterization lab, and she finds that ultrasound provides an opportunity for her to connect with patients and communicate their diagnoses and options in a straightforward manner. She also recognizes the value of investing in advanced ultrasound training for her vascular technologists and for herself, so the practice can function cohesively and focus on providing patient-centered care. On the other hand, Dr. Montero-Baker speaks about the utility of ultrasound in practices across the globe, particularly in resource-limited settings. Additionally, he describes the need for the longitudinal follow up needed to fight this chronic disease process, as well as the need to manage holistic aspects of CTLI such as proper nutrition, wound care, and orthotics. He is currently building a clinical center that will provide these aspects. We take a moment to reflect on the power of social media as a unifying force for a like-minded “global tribe” of vascular specialists. All three guests can recall numerous instances in which they were inspired by another practitioner, or they were contacted and asked for advice by others. Dr. Costantino adds that social media has helped her realize that there is a strong need for collaboration between interventional radiologists and vascular surgeons, in order to generate treatment options and provide quality patient care. She speaks about the importance of learning from and trusting other specialties. To wrap up the episode, we examine how innovation in ultrasound technology has largely stagnated with the advent of other imaging modalities and opportunities to better incorporate ultrasound into CLTI care. Dr. Costantino encourages vascular specialists to seek out ultrasound training and let patient symptoms and quality of life guide treatment decisions. Dr. Montero-Baker believes that change is required on the systemic level and he advocates for a move towards value-based care. --- RESOURCES Ep. 90- Pedal Acceleration Time for Limb Salvage: https://www.backtable.com/shows/vi/podcasts/90/pedal-acceleration-time-for-limb-salvage Ep. 229- Ultrasound Series: First Line Imaging for CLTI: https://www.backtable.com/shows/vi/podcasts/229/ultrasound-series-first-line-imaging-for-clti Ep. 241- Emerging Techniques of Advanced Ultrasound in No Option CLTI Patients: https://www.backtable.com/shows/vi/podcasts/241/emerging-techniques-of-advanced-ultrasound-in-no-options-clti-patients Ep. 155- The Butterfly Story: https://www.backtable.com/shows/vi/podcasts/155/the-butterfly-story Advanced Vascular Centers: https://advancedvascularcenters.com/ Jill Sommerset Twitter: https://twitter.com/JillSommerset Mary Costantino Twitter: https://twitter.com/drcostantino1 Miguel Montero-Baker Twitter: https://twitter.com/monteromiguel Society for Vascular Ultrasound (SVU): https://www.svu.org/ American Vein and Lymphatic Society (ALVS): https://www.myavls.org/

22 Feb 202359min

In this episode, guest host and vascular technologist Jill Sommerset interviews Dr. Kathleen Gibson, vascular surgeon and president of the American Vein and Lymphatic Society, about the role of RVTs and venous ultrasound in the diagnosis and treatment of pelvic venous disorders. --- CHECK OUT OUR SPONSORS Medtronic Abre Venous Stent https://www.medtronic.com/abrevenous Boston Scientific Eluvia Drug-Eluting Stent https://www.bostonscientific.com/en-US/medical-specialties/vascular-surgery/drug-eluting-therapies/eluvia.html?utm_source=oth_site&utm_medium=native&utm_campaign=pi-at-us-de_portfolio-hci&utm_content=n-backtable-n-backtable_site_eluvia_1_2023&cid=n10012337 --- SHOW NOTES We begin by discussing Dr. Gibson's career. She was the first woman to complete a vascular surgery fellowship, which was in 2001. Her training, like most, was very arterial focused at the time. She then moved into the private practice space while still completing clinical research. She began to realize that more of her patients had venous disease than arterial. For example, she saw many more patients with varicose veins than abdominal aortic aneurysms. Pelvic venous disorders (PeVD) in particular, remain poorly studied and understood. She became interested in this patient population because she saw many women present with pelvic pain and varicose veins after multiple targeted saphenous vein treatments. She realized this was because the source of the problem, the pelvic veins, were being left untreated. Dr. Gibson developed a varicose vein classification that is being disseminated around the world, and has been translated into multiple languages. It is called the SVP Classifier (Symptoms-Varices-Pathophysiology). It was developed to be used in conjunction with CEAP (Clinical-Etiology-Anatomy-Pathophysiology) classification for venous disease. There is an app available, as well as a workbook that can be used to claim CME. It is a tool that can aid providers and vascular technologists alike when working up PeVD. Lastly, Dr. Gibson reviews her workup of a patient with pelvic pain. Before undergoing ultrasound and vascular workup, it is important to think of other causes of pelvic pain in women of certain ages. In young women, she always ensures patients have seen a gynecologist, as endometriosis is the most common cause of pelvic pain in this group. If they are post-menopausal and present with new onset pain, she also has the patient see a gynecologist to rule out malignancy. Finally, if the patient is postpartum, she loops in a pelvic floor physical therapist because myofascial pain from pregnancy can mimic pain from PeVD. For the vascular workup, she begins with an ultrasound performed by a vascular technologist. She meets with the patient to discuss symptomatology and impacts on quality of life. If PeVD is found on US but the patient has minimal pelvic symptoms, she does not pursue treatment. She treats the patient, not the imaging. If symptoms are bad enough, she will move forward with stenting (for obstruction) or embolization (for varicosities). For embolization patients, there is no routine follow up unless there is a complaint. For stenting in NIVL (non-thrombotic iliac vein lesion) patients, she follows patients with annual US for a couple years. For post-thrombotic stenting she sees patients for US every 6 months, and then annually, as re-thrombosis is always a concern in these patients. --- RESOURCES American Vein and Lymphatic Society: https://www.myavls.org Society for Vascular Ultrasound: https://www.svu.org SVP Classifier App: https://www.myavls.org/svp-classification.html Pelvic ultrasound technique paper: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0268355516677135?journalCode=phla UIP 2023: https://www.myavls.org/annual-congress-2023.html Twitter: @JillSommerset @KathleenGibson6

20 Feb 202340min

In this episode, Dr. Chris Beck interviews vascular access surgeon Dr. Ari Kramer about his management of arteriovenous (AV) access for dialysis patients. We cover his preferred imaging for identifying and deciding to treat stenoses, the protracted angioplasty technique, and the evolution of research in drug coated balloons (DCB) and stent grafts. --- CHECK OUT OUR SPONSORS Medtronic Chocolate PTA Balloon https://www.medtronic.com/peripheral BD Rotarex Atherectomy System https://www.bd.com/rotarex --- SHOW NOTES Dr. Kramer starts by describing his vascular access practice. He is the sole operator within a hospital-based practice where he creates and maintains AV access. When evaluating a patient for possible intervention, duplex ultrasound, physical exam findings, patient history, and information from the dialysis center all play roles in determining whether the patient is eligible for a fistulagram. Dr. Kramer offers fistulagram tips: he obtains access above the arterial anastomosis in order to avoid occlusion of outflow, and he first shoots contrast into the venous tract first and works his way up to the arterial system. Depending on the findings of the fistulagram, stenotic lesions in the venous outflow tract can be treated. Dr. Kramer generally treats the lesion if the stenosis limits flow by more than 50%. Additionally, he treats any lesion resulting in a luminal diameter of 2mm or less. In an AV fistula circuit, Dr. Kramer describes his procedure, which is largely informed by the most current clinical trials. He first employs the FLEX Vessel Prep system to reduce circumferential fibromuscular tension. Next, he performs protracted plain old balloon angioplasty (POBA) for 90 seconds. This helps Then, he re-images the vessel to ensure there was no injury and utilizes a DCB to deliver paclitaxel. We discuss the clinical trials outcomes of the two current DCBs that have been approved for use in AV management, IN.PACT and Lutonix. Dr. Kramer also notes the significant cost of DCBs and lack of access to treatment for the most at-risk patients. He encourages clinicians to unite to advocate for increased reimbursement for this treatment that has been proven to show the highest standard of care. Additionally, we address treatment of non-autogenous AV circuits with stent grafts. Dr. Kramer prefers self-expanding covered stents, such as Viabahn or Covera, since they are conformable and resistant to kinks. Overall, Dr. Kramer emphasizes the importance of the operator staying up to date on clinical trials that show data for diverse tools with various indications, knowing their own skill and comfort, and incorporating the best treatments based on their patient and practice context. --- RESOURCES Ep. 139 AV Fistula Graft Management: https://www.backtable.com/shows/vi/podcasts/139/av-fistula-graft-maintenance FLEX Vessel Prep System: https://www.venturemedgroup.com/ KDOQI Clinical Practice Guideline for Vascular Access, 2019 Update: https://www.ajkd.org/article/S0272-6386(19)31137-0/fulltext Fahrtash, F., Kairaitis, L., Gruenewald, S., Spicer, T., Sidrak, H., Fletcher, J., Allen, R., & Swinnen, J. (2011). Defining a significant stenosis in an autologous radio-cephalic arteriovenous fistula for hemodialysis. Seminars in dialysis, 24(2), 231–238. Haskal, Z. J., et al. (2010). "Stent graft versus balloon angioplasty for failing dialysis-access grafts." New England Journal of Medicine 362(6): 494-503. Bard Peripheral Vascular. Covera vascular covered stent instructions for use. Rev.4 / 08-18. http://www.bardpv.com/eifu/uploads/BAWB05872R4-Covera-Vascular-Covered-Stent-IFU.pdf. The Fight Doctors: https://thefightdoctors.com/about/ Find this episode on BackTable.com for all resources mentioned in this podcast, including references to journal articles.

17 Feb 20231h 4min

In this episode, host Dr. Sabeen Dhand interviews Dr. August Ysa, vascular surgeon in Spain, about distal deep venous arterialization, including indications, patient selection, and how to perform his gunsight technique. --- CHECK OUT OUR SPONSORS Viz.ai https://www.viz.ai/ BD Rotarex Atherectomy System https://www.bd.com/rotarex Reflow Medical https://www.reflowmedical.com/ --- SHOW NOTES We begin by discussing his training and background. Initially trained in Barcelona before moving to Bilbao as a young vascular surgeon. He came to the US briefly to train at Montefiore and Houston Methodist. When attending the LINNC in Europe one year he saw a live endovascular case, which is when he decided to devote his career to peripheral arterial disease (PAD), specifically below the knee (BTK) and below the ankle (BTA) interventions. He currently works with Dr. Marta Lobato, and they have done around 25 combined deep venous arterializations (DVAs) in their practice. They love this technique because it gives someone previously faced with amputation a new chance. It is a technique to reroute blood flow to get oxygen to a wound and promote wound healing. There are two types of DVA: proximal DVA, which is done closer to the origin of the posterior tibial artery (PTA), and distal DVA, which is at the level of the ankle, and usually also involves the PTA. Thus far, it is unknown which technique is better in terms of limb salvage, and data shows both techniques yield 60-70% limb salvage rates. One advantage to distal DVA is lower rates of post-DVA storm, a type of ischemic steal syndrome. Availability of devices and lower cost also make distal DVA more appealing. DVA is never the first option, traditional recanalization techniques are always explored first. Wounds that are not candidates for DVA are large infected wounds or areas of necrotic tissue. This is because it takes 6-8 weeks to establish the newly created connection, and if the wound is already past the point of healing, DVA will not help. Other reasons DVA can fail is due to choosing the wrong candidates. Mean wound healing time after DVA is 4-7 months, so patients need to be able to commit to close follow up and wound care, and they must have the social support to be compliant with frequent clinic visits. Finally, Dr. Ysa explains his venous arterialization simplification technique (VAST). Before the procedure, he always does a venous ultrasound to rule out prior DVT and evaluate the status of the main veins of the foot. He uses two snares via the gunsight approach, which most IRs are familiar with from TIPS procedures. It involves overlapping two snares and then performing a through and through puncture from the PTA to the posterior tibial vein (PTV). The PTA is generally used over the anterior tibial or the peroneal artery due to its robust connections with the lateral plantar and the plantar arch. He then performs balloon angioplasty (BA) on the PTV. He initially uses the PTA for sizing, but generally goes bigger, between 4-5mm. For valves, he usually does regular BA but will sometimes use a cutting balloon. Two weeks post-DVA he gets an ultrasound, and at one month he gets an angiogram to evaluate the new tract. He has his patients take a single antiplatelet and a blood thinner after the procedure. He considers DVA to have failed if there is progression of wound necrosis. --- RESOURCES Dr. Ysa LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/august-ysa-56a99a174/ YouTube DVA Webinar with Dr. Ysa and Dra. Lobato: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDW5Rg5g49I Ep. 93 - DVA for CLI with Dr. Fadi Saab: https://www.backtable.com/shows/vi/podcasts/93/deep-venous-arterialization-for-cli Live Interventional Neuroradiology, Neurology and Neurosurgery Course (LINNC): https://www.linnc.com Patterns of Failure in DVA Paper: https://www.clijournal.com/article/patterns-failure-deep-venous-arterialization-and-implications-management

13 Feb 202359min

In this episode, Dr. Aaron Fritts interviews interventional radiologist Dr. Abdulaziz Alharbi of the Ministry of National Guard Health Affairs in Saudi Arabia. They discuss Dr. Alharbi’s approach to planning and performing sharp recanalization of the superior vena cava (SVC) for dialysis, transplant, and cancer patients. --- CHECK OUT OUR SPONSOR RADPAD® Radiation Protection https://www.radpad.com/ --- EARN CME Reflect on how this Podcast applies to your day-to-day and earn free AMA PRA Category 1 CMEs: https://earnc.me/sJLY3K --- SHOW NOTES Dr. Alharbi starts by describing how patients get referred to him, mainly due to end stage renal disease, chronic obstruction, and the need for dialysis access. Additionally, some patients seek access for central lines, and others have acute obstructions due to malignancies. Depending on the patient’s clinical condition, comorbidities, upcoming medical procedures, and anatomy, he will then decide if the patient is an appropriate candidate for SVC recanalization and obtain a CT scan. This imaging guides further decision-making on whether to access the obstruction from the internal jugular or brachiocephalic vein. The CT also helps him think about potential complications, such as cardiac tamponade in an obstruction close to the heart and pulmonary edema in all recanalizations. These risks are communicated to each patient accordingly. Prior to starting the procedure, Dr. Alharbi ensures that there are multiple access sites prepared, including neck, bilateral arms, and femoral access. He also ensures that there are tools that he is comfortable using and a support team in place. A colleague will usually help him by obtaining femoral access and placing a target snare distal to the obstruction. Dr. Alharbi walks us through a typical case. First he slowly advances a Chiba needle towards the target. His choice in sheath length depends on the length of the occlusion and the access point. A longer occlusion accessed through the brachiocephalic vein requires a longer sheath than a short occlusion accessed through the internal jugular vein. Next, we discuss stent sizing. Dr. Alharbi notes that it is preferable to oversize, to prevent stagnation of flow. In short occlusions, he uses bare self-expandable stents. In longer occlusions or cancer patients, he uses covered stents since there is more precise deployment. The post-procedure anticoagulation regimen usually includes heparin and an antiplatelet agent for 2-3 weeks. Then, patients are switched to apixaban for 6 months. Beyond this, patients are either taken off of anticoagulation if they are asymptomatic and there is good SVC inflow, or reverted back to their preexisting anticoagulation regimen that they had due to other comorbidities. --- RESOURCES PAIRS 2023: https://pairscongress.com/ Dr. Abdulaziz Alharbi Twitter: https://twitter.com/DrAlHarbiA_Aziz

10 Feb 202357min

In this episode, host Dr. Michael Barraza interviews Dr. Rehan Quadri, interventional radiologist, about the definition, indications and techniques for treating clot in transit.  We begin by defining and describing when to treat clot in transit. Traditionally, the definition is the washing machine mobile clot in the right atrium (RA) or right ventricle (RV). In these situations, the next place for the clot to travel is the pulmonary artery (PA). Mortality in these cases can reach as high as 30%, which is why these cases are considered emergencies. There is another category of clot in transit where a clot is partially adhered to a vessel wall, catheter, or heart valve. They are most commonly diagnosed via an echocardiogram, or found incidentally on a CT angiogram. They commonly present as catheter malfunction with symptoms resembling SVC syndrome. Dr. Quadri explains his usual method for retrieving clot in transit, though he notes each case is complex and different depending on the etiology and the overall status of the patient. In general, unless there is a massive PE, he treats the clot in transit before the PE. He always ensures with the preoperative echocardiogram that there is no interatrial shunt or patent foramen ovale (PFO). At the beginning of the case he checks PA and RA pressures.  He uses a 24 French Inari Flowtriever with FLEX technology, which helps with tough angles. He uses ICE guidance in all clot in transit cases. To help with orientation when using the ICE catheter, he recommends pointing it anteriorly while entering the RA, then using the Eustachian ridge, an echogenic line in the RA, to confirm you are in the RA and indicating that you should see the tricuspid valve as you advance. He uses the FlowSaver device, and always has 2 units of blood in the room just in case. At the end of the case, he remeasures the PA pressures, then injects through the Inari sheath to verify that there is no residual before finally doing a pulmonary arteriogram. He sends all the clots to pathology, and has seen that the morphology is usually mixed, with some organized fibrin in addition to acute thrombus.

6 Feb 202333min

In this episode, our host Dr. Ally Baheti interviews interventional radiologist Dr. Nikki Keefe about safety considerations for pregnant and breastfeeding IR patients. Dr. Keefe’s personal experience with pregnancy during her IR training sparked her interest in this topic. A lot of IR patients are pregnant or breastfeeding, so it is important to be cognizant of radiation and medication exposures and how they should be altered. She emphasizes the importance of establishing a protocol when these patients present. We review radiation doses of various IR procedures and risk stratification based on gestational age. At each stage of pregnancy, there are different risks of disruptions in organogenesis, effects on neural tube development, and predisposition to cancer. Elective procedures should usually be deferred until after delivery. The most common and necessary procedures performed in pregnant patients are PICC line placement, nephrostomy tube, and treatment of postpartum hemorrhage. Dr. Keefe also shares her tips for minimizing fluoroscopy time and deciding between different diagnostic imaging modalities that present both maternal and fetal radiation risks. Next, we discuss medication safety. Iodinated contrast is safe to give during pregnancy, while gadolinium is not. Sedation with opioids is generally safe, but their sustained use or administration around the perinatal period can cause neonatal withdrawal symptoms. Benzodiazepines can also be used for amnesia and anxiety reduction, and midazolam has a good safety profile and long half life. However, abnormally extended use of benzodiazepines can cause floppy infant syndrome (sedation, muscle laxity, failure to suckle). Dr. Keefe notes that pregnant patients have to start on higher doses than the standard, since they have higher blood volume and increased renal clearance of these medications. Lovenox is the safest known anticoagulant for pregnant women. Additionally, fetal heart monitoring should be performed before and after the procedure. Finally, we talk about specific cases of patient positioning when placing nephrostomy tubes, transhepatic access for gallbladder tubes, treatment of visceral artery aneurysms before pregnancy, and selection of  imaging modalities to detect pulmonary embolism.

3 Feb 202326min