More Talk, Less Action Could Be Good for Credit Markets

More Talk, Less Action Could Be Good for Credit Markets

Our Head of Corporate Credit Research lists realistic scenarios for why credit could outperform expectations in 2025, despite some risks posed by policy changes from the incoming administration.


----- Transcript -----


Welcome to Thoughts on the Market. I'm Andrew Sheets, head of Corporate Credit Research at Morgan Stanley. Today I’ll be discussing realistic scenarios where things could be better than we expect.

It's Friday December 20th at 2pm in London.

Credit is an asset class that always faces more limited upside, and the low starting point for spreads as we enter 2025 further limits potential gains. Nevertheless, there are still a number of ways where this market could do better than expected, with spreads tighter than expected, into next year.

An obvious place to start is U.S. policy. Morgan Stanley’s public policy strategy team thinks the incoming administration will be a story of “fast announcement, slow implementation”, with the growth and inflation impact of tariffs and immigration falling more in 2026 (rather than say earlier). And so if one looks at Morgan Stanley’s forecasts, our growth numbers for 2025 are good, our 2026 numbers are weaker.

The bull case could be that we see more talk but less ultimate action. Scenarios where tariffs are more of a negotiating tool than a sustained policy would likely mean less change to the current (credit friendly) status quo, and also increase the likelihood that the Federal Reserve will be able to lower interest rates even as growth holds up. Rate cuts with good growth is a rare occurrence, but when you do get it, it can be extremely good. If one thinks of the mid-1990s, another time where we had this combination, credit spreads were even tighter than current levels. Another path to the bull case is better funding conditions in the market. Some loosening of bank capital requirements or stronger demand for collateralized loan obligations could both flow through to tighter spreads for the assets that these fund, especially things like leveraged loans. If we think back to periods where credit spreads were tighter than today, easier funding was often a part of the story.

Now, a more aggressive phase of corporate activity could be a risk to credit, but M&A can also be a positive event, especially on a name by name basis. If merger and acquisition activity becomes a story of, say, larger companies buying smaller ones, that could mean that weaker, high yield credits get absorbed by larger, stronger, investment grade balance sheets. And so for those high yield bonds or loans, this can be an outstanding outcome. Another way things could be better than expected for credit is that growth in Europe and China is better than expected. In speaking with investors over the last few weeks, I think it's safe to say that expectations for both regions are pretty low. And so if things are better than these low expectations, spreads, especially in Europe, which are not as tight as those in the U.S., could go tighter.

But the most powerful form of the credit bull case might be the simplest. Morgan Stanley expects the Federal Reserve, the Bank of England, and the European Central Bank to all lower interest rates much more than markets expect next year, even as, for the most part, growth in 2025 holds up. Due in a large part to those expected rate cuts, we also think the yields fall more than expected. If that's right, credit could quietly have an outstanding year for total return, which is boosted as yields fall. Indeed, on our forecast, U.S. investment grade credit, a relatively sleepy asset class, would see a total return of roughly 10%, higher than our expected total return for the mighty S&P 500. Not all credit investors care about total return. But for those that do, that outcome could feel very bullish.

Thanks for listening. If you enjoy the show, leave us a review wherever you listen, and share Thoughts on the Market with a friend or colleague today.

Avsnitt(1538)

Mike Wilson: Navigating the Q3 Dog Days

Mike Wilson: Navigating the Q3 Dog Days

On today’s podcast, Chief Investment Officer Mike Wilson identifies several catalysts that could drive increased Q3 volatility. Are markets still facing a correction this quarter?

12 Aug 20193min

Andrew Sheets: Can Central Banks Keep Up with Market Expectations?

Andrew Sheets: Can Central Banks Keep Up with Market Expectations?

On today’s podcast, Chief Cross Asset Strategist Andrew Sheets looks at how the expectations markets are placing on central banks, as much as the actions of the banks themselves, are affecting outcomes.

9 Aug 20193min

Michael Zezas: The Potential Impact of Lasting Tariffs

Michael Zezas: The Potential Impact of Lasting Tariffs

On this episode, Head of Public Policy Research Michael Zezas walks investors through the current impasse on U.S.-China trade. How might new tariffs heighten downside risks for the U.S. economy?

7 Aug 20192min

Mike Wilson: Markets Face a “Sell the News” Moment

Mike Wilson: Markets Face a “Sell the News” Moment

On today’s podcast, Chief Investment Officer Mike Wilson asks whether the Fed rate cut and reemergence of trade tensions rattled markets or simply revealed the possibility of deteriorating fundamentals.

5 Aug 20193min

Andrew Sheets:  The Fed’s Great Expectations Quandary

Andrew Sheets: The Fed’s Great Expectations Quandary

On today's podcast, Markets met the Fed rate cut with a collective shrug. Could investor expectations make it harder for the Fed to succeed? Chief Cross-Asset Strategist Andrew Sheets provides analysis.

2 Aug 20193min

Michael Zezas: Trade Uncertainty and Corporate Confidence

Michael Zezas: Trade Uncertainty and Corporate Confidence

On today’s podcast, Head of U.S. Public Policy Michael Zezas examines how continued trade policy uncertainty is weighing on corporate confidence and spending. Is a turning point ahead?

31 Juli 20192min

Mike Wilson: Will the Fed Surprise on a Rate Cut?

Mike Wilson: Will the Fed Surprise on a Rate Cut?

On today’s podcast, Chief Investment Officer Mike Wilson gauges the reaction to a potential Wednesday Fed rate cut. Have markets already priced in any rally?

29 Juli 20193min

Special: Access & Opportunity Preview

Special: Access & Opportunity Preview

Morgan Stanley's Carla Harris talks with Charles Hudson, founder and Managing Partner at Precursor Ventures, a seed-stage investor bringing an institutional perspective to startups in the earliest stages of their development.

26 Juli 20194min

Populärt inom Business & ekonomi

framgangspodden
badfluence
varvet
rss-borsens-finest
avanzapodden
svd-tech-brief
dynastin
rss-jossan-nina
uppgang-och-fall
bathina-en-podcast
fill-or-kill
rikatillsammans-om-privatekonomi-rikedom-i-livet
rss-inga-dumma-fragor-om-pengar
kapitalet-en-podd-om-ekonomi
rss-placerapodden
rss-svart-marknad
rss-dagen-med-di
rss-veckans-trade
rss-borslunch
tabberaset