Classic Debate: There is Nothing Wrong With Rearing and Killing Animals for Human Consumption

Classic Debate: There is Nothing Wrong With Rearing and Killing Animals for Human Consumption

This event took place on the 31st of October 2016 at the Royal Institution in London. CHAIR: Afua Hirsch - Writer and broadcaster SPEAKERS FOR THE MOTION: AA Gill - The Sunday Times’s star restaurant and TV critic AGAINST THE MOTION: George Monbiot - Guardian columnist, environmental campaigner and author of Regenesis: Feeding the World without Devouring the Planet Fancy a nice juicy steak? Most of us do from time to time, and we don’t trouble our consciences too much with the rights and wrongs of eating meat. Others, while vaguely aware that we ought to go vegan, just can’t face the rest of our lives denying ourselves bacon, beef, butter etc. But once we start looking into the arguments for veganism, it becomes difficult to justify the omnivore diet. Take the environment for starters. Livestock farming has a massive impact on the planet, producing around 14% of carbon dioxide equivalent emissions according to the UN. That’s roughly the same as the total amount of global transport emissions. Animals are extremely inefficient processors of the maize and soya that farmers grow to feed them. If we ate those crops ourselves instead of feeding them to livestock, we could free up hundreds of millions of hectares of rainforests, savannahs and wetlands where wild animals could flourish instead. And then there are the arguments about animal welfare. Recent scientific research indicates what many of us feel we already know – that animals have complex emotional lives not dissimilar to our own. Intensive farming – the kind that confines hens, pigs and cattle to squalid indoor pens – thwarts their instincts to move around freely and build social bonds with their group. Tens of billions of animals exist in this way, and that’s before their short lives are ended in the horror house of the abattoir. As for those who say a vegan diet isn’t healthy, elite athletes who have made the switch, including world tennis No 1 Novak Djokovic, prove you don’t need animal protein to excel at the highest levels in sport. On the other side of the argument we developed as omnivores and every human culture has its culinary traditions, based on the taste and aesthetics of meat and dairy. Do we really want to live in a world where there is no beef Wellington or cheese soufflé? As for the environmentalist arguments, omnivores now have some serious eco-credentials behind them. A study at Cornell University shows that a diet that includes a few small portions of grass-fed meat a week may actually be greener than eating no animal products at all. And when it comes to animal welfare, rather than abandoning animal products altogether, couldn’t we do more good by pressing for genuinely transparent labelling of our meat and dairy? If consumers really know what they are getting, fewer people might be willing to buy the £3 chicken produced in the barbaric conditions of the agricultural industry. As for a vegan diet being healthier, we should stop giving airtime to self-appointed health experts and lifestyle bloggers. Some dieticians argue that there are nutrients we need that we just can’t get from plants alone. Yes, we can get calcium from kale and iron from beans, but the quantity, quality and bio-availability of such elements are far better when we get them from animal rather than plant sources. -- If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events ... Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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An Evening with Deborah Frances-White and David Tennant (Part Two)

An Evening with Deborah Frances-White and David Tennant (Part Two)

Deborah Frances-White is the writer and comedian best known for hosting The Guilty Feminist podcast. David Tennant is the multi-award-winning actor who has played iconic roles including Doctor Who, Hamlet, Barty Crouch Jr., Rivals’ Lord Tony Baddingham and more. In April 2025 they came to Intelligence Squared to discuss how we can have better and more open conversations on difficult topics. Drawing from her new book Six Conversations We’re Scared to Have, Deborah shared how she grew up in a cult which shut down any dissenting voices. And she made the case that she sees similar tactics being used today in our rapidly changing digital society. Deborah and David discussed the state of freedom of speech, politics in the arts, and the value of critical thinking. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

21 Juni 37min

An Evening with Deborah Frances-White and David Tennant (Part One)

An Evening with Deborah Frances-White and David Tennant (Part One)

Deborah Frances-White is the writer and comedian best known for hosting The Guilty Feminist podcast. David Tennant is the multi-award-winning actor who has played iconic roles including Doctor Who, Hamlet, Barty Crouch Jr., Rivals’ Lord Tony Baddingham and more. In April 2025 they came to Intelligence Squared to discuss how we can have better and more open conversations on difficult topics. Drawing from her new book Six Conversations We’re Scared to Have, Deborah shared how she grew up in a cult which shut down any dissenting voices. And she made the case that she sees similar tactics being used today in our rapidly changing digital society. Deborah and David discussed the state of freedom of speech, politics in the arts, and the value of critical thinking.  --- This is the first instalment of a two-part episode. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

20 Juni 36min

Is Britain in Denial About the Far Right? With Harry Shukman

Is Britain in Denial About the Far Right? With Harry Shukman

What is happening behind closed doors in Britain’s far right movement? On today’s episode, we’re joined by journalist Harry Shukman, the journalist who spent over a year undercover investigating the British far right. Drawing on his new book, Year of the Rat, Shukman sheds light on the secret meetings, pub gatherings, political canvassing, and neo-Nazi conferences at the heart of the extreme right-wing activity in Britain. Through his investigations, Shukman has effectively exposed the mechanics of how far-right ideologies – from eugenics to Holocaust denial – are being normalised across the country, often with surprising allies in big tech, government, and the mainstream media. Harry Shukman is a researcher at HOPE not hate, an anti-fascist organisation. Formerly a journalist, he worked as a news reporter for The Times and then a writer and editor for the Manchester Mill. Joining him to discuss the book is Carl Miller, the journalist, co-founder of the Centre for the Analysis of Social Media at Demos, and host of crime podcast Kill List. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

17 Juni 46min

The Power of Good Conversation, with Jefferson Fisher (Part Two)

The Power of Good Conversation, with Jefferson Fisher (Part Two)

‘Embracing the knowledge in The Next Conversation will vastly improve your life.’ – Andrew Huberman, creator of the Huberman Lab Podcast ‘ The Next Conversation gives you the tools to change your life, one conversation at a time.’ – Mel Robbins, bestselling author and host of the Mel Robbins Podcast In a time when conversations often feel more divisive and polarised than ever, knowing how to communicate effectively has never been more essential. Jefferson Fisher has built a global following by addressing these very challenges. As a trial lawyer turned communication expert, his short, practical videos have helped millions master the art of effective conversation. To mark the publication of his debut book The Next Conversation, he came to Intelligence Squared in June 2025 to share his game-changing framework for transforming how we talk – and, more importantly, how we listen. The Next Conversation is set to be one of the most impactful books on communication in years. Live at Union Chapel, he unpacked his insights and answered your questions. --- If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

15 Juni 33min

The Power of Good Conversation, with Jefferson Fisher (Part One)

The Power of Good Conversation, with Jefferson Fisher (Part One)

‘Embracing the knowledge in The Next Conversation will vastly improve your life.’ – Andrew Huberman, creator of the Huberman Lab Podcast ‘ The Next Conversation gives you the tools to change your life, one conversation at a time.’ – Mel Robbins, bestselling author and host of the Mel Robbins Podcast In a time when conversations often feel more divisive and polarised than ever, knowing how to communicate effectively has never been more essential. Jefferson Fisher has built a global following by addressing these very challenges. As a trial lawyer turned communication expert, his short, practical videos have helped millions master the art of effective conversation. To mark the publication of his debut book The Next Conversation, he came to Intelligence Squared in June 2025 to share his game-changing framework for transforming how we talk – and, more importantly, how we listen. The Next Conversation is set to be one of the most impactful books on communication in years. Live at Union Chapel, he unpacked his insights and answered your questions. --- This is the first instalment of a two-part episode. If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

14 Juni 34min

Sotheby's Talks | Shakespeare: A Man For All Time, with Tracy-Ann Oberman

Sotheby's Talks | Shakespeare: A Man For All Time, with Tracy-Ann Oberman

On today’s episode, an episode from our friends at Sotheby's, exploring the world of Shakespeare. Sam Leith, author, journalist and literary editor of The Spectator, will be joined by Emma Smith, Professor of Shakespeare Studies at Oxford, Tracy-Ann Oberman, who most recently starred as Shylock in her adaptation of The Merchant of Venice, and acclaimed actor Joseph Kloska. They will be revealing how different editions shaped our understanding of Shakespeare’s plays. Why do some of his most famous lines vary from version to version? What do these texts reveal about the many ways Shakespeare’s plays can be interpreted - on the page, on the stage and in the minds of each new generation? This podcast was recorded at Sotheby’s London in May 2025.  And, to step further into the world of Sotheby’s, you can visit any of our galleries around the world; they’re open to the public. For more information, visit sothebys.com.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

12 Juni 39min

Is Nvidia the most important company in the world? With Stephen Witt

Is Nvidia the most important company in the world? With Stephen Witt

In June 2024, Nvidia became the most valuable corporation on Earth. In Stephen Witt’s new book ‘The Thinking Machine’ he chronicles the astonishing story of how a designer of videogame equipment conquered the market for AI hardware, and in the process reinvented the computer. He spoke about it with author and Research Director at Demos Carl Miller. ---- If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

11 Juni 51min

An Evening with Adam Buxton and Caitlin Moran (Part Two)

An Evening with Adam Buxton and Caitlin Moran (Part Two)

*** Click here to see the photograph referred to in the podcast introduction: https://www.intelligencesquared.com/events/an-evening-with-adam-buxton *** --- Adam Buxton is a comedian, writer, podcaster — and one of the UK’s most beloved cultural figures. Best known for The Adam Buxton Podcast, The Adam and Joe Show on Channel 4, and the distinctive blend of surreal and self-deprecating humour he brings to all his work, Buxton has spent decades making people laugh while also offering insightful reflections on the quirks, highs, lows and occasional heartbreak of modern life.  In May 2025 Buxton came to the Intelligence Squared stage to celebrate the publication of his new memoir, I Love You, Byeee: Rambles on DIY TV, Rockstars, Kids and Mums, the highly anticipated sequel to his previous memoir Ramble Book: Musings on Childhood, Friendship, Family and 80s Pop Culture. In conversation with bestselling author and columnist Caitlin Moran, Buxton dove into stories from the book and beyond, reflecting on his creative partnership with Joe Cornish, encounters with icons like David Bowie, and the joys and absurdities of family life. The conversation that spans laughter, loss, ageing, and parenthood – all delivered in Adam’s signature blend of humour and heart. --- If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full ad free conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more. For £4.99 per month you'll also receive: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series - 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events  ...  Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99: - Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts - Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series … Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access. … Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more. https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

8 Juni 34min

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