BONUS Escaping the Agile Doom Loop With Pete Oliver-Krueger and "Agile Mike" Dougherty

BONUS Escaping the Agile Doom Loop With Pete Oliver-Krueger and "Agile Mike" Dougherty

Global Agile Summit Preview: How to Escape the Agile Doom Loop with Pete Oliver-Krueger and "Agile Mike" Dougherty

In this BONUS Global Agile Summit preview episode, we explore the concept of the "Agile Doom Loop" with Pete Oliver-Krueger and Michael "Agile Mike" Dougherty, co-authors of "Shift: From Product to People." They share insights on recognizing when teams are stuck in endless cycles of planning, failure, and rework, and introduce their PAGES framework that helps teams break free and communicate effectively with leadership.

Recognizing the Agile Doom Loop

"When change doesn't happen and there is nothing that seems to go anywhere, that's when you know you're in that doom loop, because we're all about improving."

The Agile Doom Loop is that dreaded feeling when teams get stuck in endless cycles with no real progress. Michael explains that a clear indicator is feeling "stuck in a rut" where the status quo becomes permanent. When teams are constantly planning and executing without seeing improvement, they're trapped in the loop. This often happens when organizations lack psychological safety, making people afraid to speak up or try new approaches because it might be "career limiting."

Warning Signs Your Team is Stuck

"Most teams can't tell me what leadership wants. They're like, 'Oh, we just have to get the product done' or 'We have to deliver by this particular date.'"

Pete shares that when teams can't articulate what leadership truly wants, it's a warning sign. Teams stuck in the doom loop focus solely on delivering more stories without understanding the broader context or purpose. They don't track whether their improvements are actually solving problems that matter to leadership. When teams feel they have no choice but to follow orders without questioning, they've lost the agency needed for continuous improvement.

Personal Experiences with the Doom Loop

"I've been fired for trying to change things more than once."

Both Pete and Michael share personal experiences with the Agile Doom Loop. Michael shares the story of being in environments where people were afraid to be visible during meetings, keeping cameras off during virtual sessions out of fear of judgment. He describes seeing teams resist new ideas unless they came from management, showing how hierarchical thinking reinforces the doom loop. Communication breakdowns between leadership and teams create disconnects that feed the cycle of frustration and stagnation.

The PAGES Framework

"We basically took what we have to put in these quarterly business reviews and said to teams: 'This is how you're being represented at the organizational level, so you should participate in this.'"

Pete introduces their PAGES framework, which helps teams break out of the doom loop by teaching them to communicate in "leadership language." While the acronym doesn't appear explicitly in their book, all elements are present. The framework focuses on:

  • Problems being solved

  • Actions being taken

  • Goals being pursued

  • Evidence being collected

  • Solutions that demonstrate value

This approach bridges the communication gap between teams and leadership by creating a shared language focused on business outcomes rather than just activities.

Implementing PAGES for Team Motivation

"We can't boil the ocean. With 500 people, it's hard to change all at once, so we started with one team that became the catalyst."

Michael explains their implementation strategy of starting with a single team and using their success to spread change organically. By creating metrics and dashboards that leadership could access in real-time, they reduced the need for constant status meetings. Leadership could see progress happening, which built trust and created space for teams to work more autonomously. The result was a shift from delays and frustration to timely delivery of what truly mattered to customers.

One Tip to Start Right Away

"My first tip would be to go Problems first. Think about what problem you want to see go away and don't introduce anything unless it's going to directly affect that problem."

Pete recommends focusing on problems before solutions, particularly identifying recurring patterns that prevent teams from achieving goals. He suggests prioritizing problems and addressing them one by one, starting with problems the team cares about to build buy-in, then tackling leadership problems. This creates a virtuous cycle of solving team and leadership problems alternately, building trust and momentum.

Michael adds that building trust is essential - find low-hanging fruit that shows quick wins, share relevant stories from past successes, and collect evidence that demonstrates progress. He references the book "Atomic Habits," suggesting teams should start small with changes that are easy to maintain rather than attempting massive transformations that might overwhelm them.

In this segment, we refer to the book Atomic Habits by James Clear.

About Pete Oliver-Krueger and "Agile Mike" Dougherty

Pete Oliver-Krueger is an Executive Coach with the Library of Agile, and co-author of the book "Shift: From Product to People", a novel that tells the complex story of how leading "people-first" is required to solve tomorrow's biggest problems. He is the other co-author of "Shift: From Product to People".

You can link with Pete Oliver-Krueger on LinkedIn, and visit Pete OK’s website at https://www.shiftingpeople.com/.

Michael Dougherty aka "Agile Mike" has over 30 years of experience with solution development and product leadership, working in nearly every IT role that exists and literally hundreds of companies during his career. Michael has taught multiple Agile courses to over 1000 people, spoken at multiple events and podcasts, written dozens of blogs, and has been recently serving the US Government. He is the other co-author of "Shift: From Product to People".

You can link with Michael Dougherty on LinkedIn.

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BONUS: Building Agile Startups with Nick Hughes of Founders Live

BONUS: Building Agile Startups with Nick Hughes of Founders Live

BONUS: Building Agile Startups with Nick Hughes of Founders Live   Welcome, Agile friends! In this episode, I had the pleasure of sitting down with Nick Hughes, the founder of Founders Live, a global startup community now operating in more than 100 cities and 50 countries. Our conversation explored what it really takes to build a business and how the principles of agility can help entrepreneurs adapt, iterate, and thrive.   If you’ve ever wondered how to sharpen your message, build resilience in the face of setbacks, and foster meaningful connections in the startup world, this episode is for you!   The Birth of Founders Live “Test, learn, iterate, and grow. That’s how I built Founders Live.”   Nick’s story began over 10 years ago when he noticed something missing in the entrepreneurial world—a supportive community where early-stage founders could connect, learn, and grow together. As a founder himself, he knew firsthand how isolating the startup journey could be.   He decided to experiment with an idea, and it worked. Founders Live has since become a thriving global movement where entrepreneurs pitch their ideas, connect with like-minded people, and celebrate innovation in an engaging, fun atmosphere.   Each Founders Live event follows a simple but powerful format: five founders deliver 99-second pitches, followed by four minutes of audience Q&A. Then, the crowd votes on the winner. Add some networking, food, and drinks, and you’ve got a recipe for an unforgettable experience!   The takeaway here? Test small, see what works, and refine from there.   The Power of a 99-Second Pitch “It’s not easy to create your 99-second pitch. But that time frame forces founders to really think: What is my message?”   Nick’s 99-second pitch format is more than a clever gimmick—it’s a forcing function for founders to get crystal clear about their message. In a short window of time, founders must distill their big idea into something precise, engaging, and impactful.   Many founders tell Nick that while it’s nerve-wracking at first, they walk away feeling more confident and impressed with their own ability to communicate under pressure. It’s not just about pitching—it’s about building communication agility and clarity of purpose.   Why Networking and Mentorship Matter “If you figure out ways to help people and open doors for them, it comes back to you tenfold.”   One of the most valuable aspects of Founders Live is its emphasis on connection. Nick shared that many of the most successful founders he knows have built networks by being generous—by “opening doors” for others. Whether it’s offering advice, making introductions, or helping someone troubleshoot a challenge, those who give tend to receive tenfold in return.   His advice for founders? Show up, participate, and look for ways to add value to your community. Authenticity and generosity go a long way in building strong relationships that will support your growth.   Embracing Agility and Resilience “Agility is looking at things as experiments—identify what works, keep that, and stop what isn’t working.”   We also dove into the mindset that helps founders bounce back from setbacks. For Nick, agility means viewing everything as an experiment. When things don’t go as planned, the question isn’t “Why did this happen to me?” but rather “What can I learn from this, and how can I adjust?”   Successful founders are constantly iterating—testing, learning, and evolving. The entrepreneurial journey isn’t a straight line; it’s a cycle of experimentation and improvement. Agility doesn’t just happen in the product—it starts with how you frame your challenges and your willingness to pivot when needed.   Common Misconceptions About Entrepreneurship “We all want creators in the world, but it’s a tough road. You need to build something that adds value before pitching it.”   According to Nick, many first-time founders enter the startup world with unrealistic expectations. Building a business isn’t just about pitching your idea to investors—it’s about creating something valuable, getting traction, and proving adoption first. If you don’t have traction or proof points, you’re burning bridges by pitching too early.   His advice? Focus on solving real problems and showing early growth before you seek funding. When you walk into the room with evidence that people love your product, your pitch becomes much stronger—and much harder to ignore.   Intrapreneurship: Innovating Inside Larger Companies   Not every entrepreneur is working outside the corporate world—some are internal innovators looking to make a difference within their organizations. For those intrapreneurs, Nick had some great advice: define your opportunity clearly, understand your company’s risk tolerance, and align your goals with measurable outcomes.   If you want to pitch new ideas inside a company, start by identifying what success would look like and communicating that vision effectively. Intrapreneurship thrives when there’s clarity around expectations and potential rewards.   Nick’s Resource Recommendation   When I asked Nick for a resource recommendation, he shared the book “The Second Mountain: The Quest for a Moral Life” by David Brooks. It’s an inspiring read about finding purpose and meaning by building something bigger than yourself—a fitting message for entrepreneurs seeking to create meaningful impact.   We closed with Nick’s final piece of advice: “Test, learn, iterate, and grow. That’s how I built Founders Live.”   This simple but powerful mantra reminds us that agility isn’t just a process—it’s a mindset. Whether you’re launching your own startup or driving innovation within a larger organization, success comes from being open to experimentation and continuous improvement. About Nick Hughes Nick Hughes is the founder of Founders Live, a global community and event platform for entrepreneurs, now active in over 100 cities across 50 countries. With a background in founding companies, Nick created Founders Live to foster connection, mentorship, and growth for startups worldwide.  To learn more about Nick and Founders Live, visit FoundersLive.com or connect with Nick Hughes on LinkedIn.

11 Jan 28min

Product Owner Patterns – The Great and the Bad | Ellen Grove

Product Owner Patterns – The Great and the Bad | Ellen Grove

Ellen Grove: The Messenger Anti-Pattern, When Product Owners Lack Authority Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. The Great Product Owner: Building Shared Understanding, The Collaborative Product Owner Pattern Ellen describes an exemplary Product Owner (PO) who actively engaged with customers, often bringing the team along to meet users. This practice fostered a shared understanding of customer needs and amplified creativity within the team. A great PO promotes collaboration and ensures that the team is aligned with the product vision, enabling innovative solutions and meaningful outcomes. The Bad Product Owner: The Messenger Anti-Pattern, When Product Owners Lack Authority A poor PO, Ellen explains, is one who lacks decision-making authority. In one case, a PO served merely as a messenger for the CEO, repeatedly deferring to higher-ups for answers. This lack of empowerment hindered team progress and frustrated the development process. Ellen underscores that Scrum Masters play a crucial role in supporting POs to ensure they can fulfill their responsibilities effectively. Self-reflection Question: How can you support Product Owners to strengthen their ability to make informed decisions? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Ellen Grove Ellen is a skilled business agility coach, trainer, and facilitator, helping teams and leaders foster collaboration, productivity, and meaningful change. With expertise in Agile, Scrum, Lean, and systems coaching, she partners with diverse organizations—from startups to global enterprises—to navigate complex challenges, build resilience, and drive impactful organizational transformations across all departments. You can link with Ellen Grove on LinkedIn.

10 Jan 16min

The Power of "Why", Modeling Coaching Behavior for Agile Teams | Ellen Grove

The Power of "Why", Modeling Coaching Behavior for Agile Teams | Ellen Grove

Ellen Grove: The Power of "Why", Modeling Coaching Behavior for Agile Teams Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Ellen defines success for Scrum Masters as the team developing a stronger sense of agency and self-sufficiency. When teams begin asking better questions and demonstrate ownership of their processes, it indicates growth and maturity. Scrum Masters must model this behavior by being thoughtful, curious, and consistently asking "why" to encourage a coaching mindset. This approach enables teams to think critically and solve problems collaboratively. Self-reflection Question: How can you model the behavior you want to see in your team during retrospectives and beyond? Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: Retromat Ellen recommends using Retromat, a versatile online tool that provides a variety of retrospective formats to match the specific needs of your team. Ellen values mixing up retrospective formats to keep sessions engaging and contextually relevant. She stresses the importance of paying attention to all steps of a retrospective process, ensuring teams reflect, ideate, and act effectively. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Ellen Grove Ellen is a skilled business agility coach, trainer, and facilitator, helping teams and leaders foster collaboration, productivity, and meaningful change. With expertise in Agile, Scrum, Lean, and systems coaching, she partners with diverse organizations—from startups to global enterprises—to navigate complex challenges, build resilience, and drive impactful organizational transformations across all departments. You can link with Ellen Grove on LinkedIn.

9 Jan 16min

The Dual Work of Agile, Managing Projects and Change Simultaneously | Ellen Grove

The Dual Work of Agile, Managing Projects and Change Simultaneously | Ellen Grove

Ellen Grove: The Dual Work of Agile, Managing Projects and Change Simultaneously Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Ellen shares her insights on managing organizational change effectively. She explains how Scrum and Lean Change Management offer tools to make the "change work" visible alongside project work. By putting infrastructure in place to support this dual focus, stakeholders and teams can gain transparency and clarity. Ellen emphasizes that lasting change requires collaboration and visibility, not isolation. Self-reflection Question: How can you make the "change work" more visible in your organization? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Ellen Grove Ellen is a skilled business agility coach, trainer, and facilitator, helping teams and leaders foster collaboration, productivity, and meaningful change. With expertise in Agile, Scrum, Lean, and systems coaching, she partners with diverse organizations—from startups to global enterprises—to navigate complex challenges, build resilience, and drive impactful organizational transformations across all departments. You can link with Ellen Grove on LinkedIn.

8 Jan 15min

Why Feedback Loops Are Essential for Agile Teams | Ellen Grove

Why Feedback Loops Are Essential for Agile Teams | Ellen Grove

Ellen Grove: Why Feedback Loops Are Essential for Agile Teams Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Ellen shares a story about coaching a team in a public sector enterprise working on a website project. Despite their commitment to Agile, the team’s disconnect from user feedback led them to build features that missed critical functionality. This stealthy anti-pattern—assuming "what should be done and why" without user input—resulted in wasted effort and budget. Ellen emphasizes the importance of direct feedback loops with real users, even for internal products. Self-reflection Question: How can you ensure your team receives continuous feedback from real users to avoid building the wrong product? Featured Book of the Week: Humble Inquiry by Edgar Schein Ellen highlights "Humble Inquiry," a transformative book that stresses the importance of relationships over tasks in solving problems. The book encourages leaders to build trust and respect through better questioning techniques. It challenges readers to rethink their interactions and adopt a stance of curiosity, fostering collaboration and understanding. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Ellen Grove Ellen is a skilled business agility coach, trainer, and facilitator, helping teams and leaders foster collaboration, productivity, and meaningful change. With expertise in Agile, Scrum, Lean, and systems coaching, she partners with diverse organizations—from startups to global enterprises—to navigate complex challenges, build resilience, and drive impactful organizational transformations across all departments. You can link with Ellen Grove on LinkedIn.

7 Jan 14min

Managing Change in Complex Organizational Cultures | Ellen Grove

Managing Change in Complex Organizational Cultures | Ellen Grove

Ellen Grove: Managing Change in Complex Organizational Cultures Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Ellen reflects on her early experiences as a Scrum Master, facing challenges in an environment that resisted the introduction of Scrum. She shares valuable lessons about handling external resistance, managing personal expectations, and avoiding emotional burnout when navigating organizational change. Ellen emphasizes the importance of focusing on what can be influenced and detaching from outcomes beyond one’s control. Self-reflection Question: How do you maintain focus and resilience when dealing with resistance to Scrum in your organization? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Ellen Grove Ellen is a skilled business agility coach, trainer, and facilitator, helping teams and leaders foster collaboration, productivity, and meaningful change. With expertise in Agile, Scrum, Lean, and systems coaching, she partners with diverse organizations—from startups to global enterprises—to navigate complex challenges, build resilience, and drive impactful organizational transformations across all departments. You can link with Ellen Grove on LinkedIn.

6 Jan 14min

Throwing Features Over the Fence, The Disconnected PO | Robert Finan

Throwing Features Over the Fence, The Disconnected PO | Robert Finan

Robert Finan: Throwing Features Over the Fence, The Disconnected PO Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. The Great Product Owner: Fostering Quick Feedback Loops With Story Mapping Robert describes a great Product Owner as someone who immerses themselves in the team, fostering collaboration and ensuring quick market feedback.  By using tools like Story Mapping, these POs help teams focus on value while staying engaged and open to learning. The Bad Product Owner: Throwing Features Over the Fence, The Disconnected PO Bad Product Owners remain distant, throwing requirements “over the fence” without participating in the team’s efforts. This disconnect often leads to misalignment and poor outcomes.  For Scrum Masters and Agile Coaches, Robert suggests investigating the root cause of this distance and addressing it collaboratively. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Robert Finan Robert has been working in IT for over 25 years, with the last decade spent deeply engaged in “messy” real-world Agile transformations. He documents his experiences in the Agile Drill Sergeant webcomic. You can link with Robert Finan on LinkedIn.

3 Jan 14min

Promoting Agile Team Growth Through Experiments And Small Focused Changes | Robert Finan

Promoting Agile Team Growth Through Experiments And Small Focused Changes | Robert Finan

Robert Finan: Promoting Agile Team Growth Through Experiments And Small Focused Changes Read the full Show Notes and search through the world’s largest audio library on Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Robert defines Scrum Master success as driving impactful team improvements through small, focused changes.  By maintaining a backlog of improvement ideas and encouraging teams to experiment, Robert highlights the importance of measurable progress in both behavior and collaboration. Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: Sailboat Retrospective Robert recommends the Sailboat format, especially when working with new teams. By exploring current realities, future goals, and risks, this format provides rich insights and fosters alignment. The focus on improvement ensures actionable outcomes that resonate with team members. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn’t just about innovation—it’s about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she’s caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn’t just about the product—it’s about the people. 🚨 Will Angela’s coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Robert Finan Robert has been working in IT for over 25 years, with the last decade spent deeply engaged in “messy” real-world Agile transformations. He documents his experiences in the Agile Drill Sergeant webcomic. You can link with Robert Finan on LinkedIn.

2 Jan 14min

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