Bob Martin on Agile and Extreme Programming - Episode 105

Bob Martin on Agile and Extreme Programming - Episode 105

In today’s episode, Jeffrey Palermo is joined by a really exciting guest; Robert C Martin, better known as Uncle Bob Martin!

If you don’t already know Bob, he is a software engineer, instructor, and best-selling author. He is most recognized for developing numerous software design principles and for being a founder of the incredibly influential Agile Manifesto. Bob is the author of a number of Clean Code related books including his latest, Clean Agile: Back to Basics, where he reintroduces Agile values and principles for a new generation of programmers and nonprogrammers alike. In the past, Bob was also the editor-in-chief of C++ Report magazine and served as the first chairman of the Agile Alliance.

In this episode, Jeffrey and Bob talk all things Agile and Extreme Programming (XP). Bob shares his insights on what would be on his shortlist if he was building an Agile team today; shares key takeaways from his book, Clean Agile: Back to Basics; and speaks about what XP looks like in 2020. He also touches on clean architecture, clean code, his predictions for the future of the software industry, and offers some timely tips for young developers!

Topics of Discussion:

[:38] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes.

[:46] About The Azure DevOps Podcast and Jeffrey’s offer to speak at virtual user groups.

[1:42] About today’s episode with Bob Martin.

[2:10] Jeffrey welcomes Bob to the podcast.

[2:20] Bob shares some background about who he is as well as the proudest moment in his career.

[4:09] Why did Bob decide to write Clean Agile: Back to Basics?

[5:28] If someone was building an Agile team today, what would be on Bob’s shortlist of recommendations?

[7:38] What does Extreme Programming (XP) look like in 2020? What are the concrete practices?

[9:32] What does Bob see as the current best standard for a programmer in this COVID world?

[12:31] Bob defines the practice of continuous integration.

[14:58] Is Bob a fan of feature branches?

[15:29] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure.

[16:00] Bob’s journey with getting started with clean architecture.

[19:23] Is there a way to do clean architecture with the modern tooling available? Or are there things available to attempt to get closer to it?

[21:32] Bob shares the origin of literate programming.

[23:11] The modern struggle with tooling.

[25:15] Bob talks ‘DLL Hell’.

[26:00] Bob shares why it is so incredibly important to keep clean code; code that is free from dependencies. He also explains how to get to that point and offers some advice to young programmers.

[31:55] Bob shares his predictions on the future of the software industry.

[37:13] Jeffrey thanks Bob for joining the podcast!

Mentioned in this Episode:

Azure DevOps

Clear Measure (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!

bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook!

Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube

Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter Follow to stay informed about future events!

The Azure DevOps Podcast’s Twitter: @AzureDevOpsShow

Robert C. Martin

Clean Agile: Back to Basics, by Robert C. Martin

Robert C.Martin’s Amazon Book Page

@UncleBobMartin (Bob Martin’s Twitter)

Clean Coders

Extreme Programming Explained, by Kent Beck

Clean Architecture: A Craftsman's Guide to Software Structure and Design, by Robert C. Martin

DLL Hell

Want to Learn More?

Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

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Raziel Tabib: GitOps - Episode 294

Raziel Tabib: GitOps - Episode 294

Raziel is the Senior Vice President of Codefresh at Octopus Deploy. He is an entrepreneur, technology enthusiast, and software developer at heart. He is the Founder of Codefresh and is passionate about accelerating the way software is disrupting our day-to-day life by simplifying the way we deploy applications.   Topics of Discussion: [2:23] When Raziel first got interested in making a difference in the industry. [3:05] The role of the software developer has evolved over time. [7:11] What is GitOps? [14:46] Overlap with the concept of infrastructure as code. [14:57] Simplifying software deployment using GitOps. [20:44] Why it’s an exciting time to be in software development. [22:55] What can we do with Codefresh? [25:24] Does Codefresh work with other infrastructure types? [26:29] Storing and managing application configuration and infrastructure code in separate Git repositories. [29:10] What are the most common reasons this infrastructure repository would have a commit pushed to it? [35:27] Codefresh joining Octopus Deploy.   Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Codefresh OpenGitOps   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

22 Apr 202441min

Glenn Condron: .NET Web Development - Episode 293

Glenn Condron: .NET Web Development - Episode 293

Glenn is a Principal Product Manager for the App Platform team within the Developer Division at Microsoft, focusing on .NET. Before joining Microsoft, Glenn was a developer in Australia where he worked on software for various government departments.   Topics of Discussion: [2:47] Glenn’s career path. [6:33] The old .NET vs the new .NET. [8:09] .NET was initially Windows-only but is now being rebuilt as open-source, cross-platform software. [9:40] The evolution of .NET. [9:53] .NET core. [14:04] New features and ideas presented at .NET Conf. [16:26] Aspire. [18:58] Every piece of an Aspire solution uses open Telemetry as a standard. [19:26] Redis.  [27:15] Aspire knows all the “what’ and “how” to deploy to the cloud, without explicit cloud knowledge. [32:36] The intent of AZD. [36:57] Handling the components of Aspire. [40:21] How to add custom resources to Aspire. [41:00] Opinionated vs non-opinionated development in the .NET ecosystem.   Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Glenn Condron on New Capabilities on .NET - Ep 58 Glenn C GitHub DevBlogs Glenn C Building Cloud Native Apps with .NET 8 Introducing .NET Aspire   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

15 Apr 202445min

Richard Hundhausen: Product Ownership - Episode 292

Richard Hundhausen: Product Ownership - Episode 292

Richard Hundhausen helps software organizations and teams deliver better products by understanding and leveraging Azure DevOps and Scrum. He is a Professional Scrum Trainer, Professional Scrum Developer, author of Professional Scrum with Azure DevOps (MS Press), and co-creator of the Nexus Scaled Scrum framework. As a software developer and consultant with over 30 years of experience, he understands that software is built and delivered by people and not by processes or tools.   Topics of Discussion: [3:03] Is it really that easy to teach developers? [3:34] Scrum implementation and best practices for developers and managers. [5:11] What is a Scrum trainer and developer? [6:40] Reminding teams to talk to each other and deliver value earlier. [6:47] Remembering not just the nouns, but the verbs: improve, collaborate, share, love the values, commit, have courage, be open, have focus, and be respectful. [8:39] The importance of having the right teams. [12:04] Improving software development efficiency through cross-functional teams. [13:47] The importance of being a self-managing team. [15:04] When we outsource everything to HR to find a good culture, that can perpetuate the “it’s someone else’s job” mentality. [15:24] Bigger companies vs. smaller companies. [17:44] Giving creatives the space to create. [21:09] HDD (Hypothesis-driven development) can help us learn early and adapt. [29:27] The importance of focusing on outcomes and impacts, rather than just measuring resources, activities, and outputs. [31:08] Outcomes and impacts are where we should be focused. [32:40] One percent of product owners using Scrum as intended? [33:27] Even if you don’t have a product owner, have someone who orders the work.   Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Accentient Upgrade Your Team Daniel Pink Practicing Hypothesis-Driven Development in Azure DevOps “Richard Hundhausen on Professional Scrum — Ep 100”   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

8 Apr 202440min

Mads Torgersen: The Latest in C# - Episode 291

Mads Torgersen: The Latest in C# - Episode 291

Mads is the Lead Designer of the C# language and has been at Microsoft for 18 years. Prior to this, Mads was a professor and contributed to a language starting with J. He was previously on episode 164 of the podcast where he spoke about the latest on C# at the time.   Topics of Discussion: [3:40] The serendipitous career path Mads took that led him to C# and Microsoft. [6:17] Where are the high points of where the C# language has gone over the past six months? [7:40] Adding a unified syntax. [10:00] Primary constructors. [15:43] Some new features in C# are still too early to see their full impact, but we can still have hypotheses about how they will affect programming. [16:14] Non-nullable conversion. [21:45] Learning C# and its evolution. [23:24] The concept of everyday C#. [26:15] C# goals. [33:02] Does C# have a clear category? [39:41] Generative AI. [41:16] AI's impact on coding and the impact generative AI is having on development. [47:17] Will AI replace the career opportunities for developers? [51:21] Acknowledging the disruptive nature of AI with also the belief that it will lead to societal changes, including job displacement, and hopes for environmentally sustainable productivity gains.   Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Github.com/CSharplang Ep #164: Mads Torgersen on C#10 and .NET6 Microsoft C# documentation   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

1 Apr 202452min

Mark Miller: Voice User Interface - Episode 290

Mark Miller: Voice User Interface - Episode 290

Mark Miller, is an eight-year C# MVP with strong expertise in decoupled design, plug-in architectures, and great user interfaces. He is the Chief Architect of the IDE Tools division at Developer Express, as well as the visionary force behind productivity tools like CodeRush. Mark is a top-ranked speaker at conferences around the world and has been creating tools for software for almost four decades. On top of all that, Mark also streams live C# and typescript coding and design on Twitch.TV/CodeRushed!   Topics of Discussion: [4:12] Mark’s passion for creating developer tools. [7:08] Why Mark loves developer tooling. [7:52] UI design and developer tools with a focus on efficiency. [10:35] Mark recounts his early days in UI. [12:41] AP testing is starting to grow in popularity. [13:38] User experience design evolution and paradigm shifts. [15:25] Using voice commands for coding and software development. [20:25] Using Azure Cognitive Services for fast file opening and accessibility in Visual Studio. [26:31] Voice-to-code technology and its potential impact on software development. [31:20] Coding and language use in software development. [33:04] Mark shares some code examples. [36:25] Using AI for voice commands and file management. [45:27] This release promises using simple expressions, but the technology is built to grow. [48:06] Customizing voice commands for Visual Studio, including mapping keys and volume thresholds.   Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! CodeRush Mark Miller — The Science of Great UI in Software Ep #212   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

25 Mars 202454min

Richard Lander: Containerization and Linux - Episode 289

Richard Lander: Containerization and Linux - Episode 289

Richard Lander is a Principal Program Manager on the .NET team at Microsoft. He’s been with Microsoft since 2000, and working on .NET since 2003! Currently, he’s working on runtime features, docker container experience, blogging, and customer engagement. He’s also part of the design team that defines new .NET runtime capabilities and features.   Topics of Discussion: [4:31] Richard talks about the technologies that we should already be using and what we should be looking to adopt in the near future. [6:58] Azure services. [7:22] The benefits of using Aspire, and why people should be interested in using it. [14:00] What has Richard been working on over the last several years? [14:14] Improving container image size and reducing complexity in a.NET application. [19:52] Web Assembly and WASI, web assembly system interface. [23:48] Docker containers have a spec called OCI, open container initiative. [26:50] Canonical and building chiseled containers. [36:02] Nano-framework. [36:53] Using Raspberry Pi for edge computing and density in IoT projects. [41:38] Using Linux and Windows for development work. [46:55] Improving container image publishing experience in .NET.   Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Richard Lander on the New .NET Platform What is .NET, and why should you choose it? The convenience of .NET Announcing .NET Chiseled Containers   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

18 Mars 202454min

Rockford Lhotka: Philosophy on Architecture - Episode 288

Rockford Lhotka: Philosophy on Architecture - Episode 288

Rockford Lhotka is VP of Strategy at Xebia and Chief Software Architect at Marimer LLC. He is the creator of the open-source CSLA .NET development framework, the author of numerous books, and regularly speaks at major conferences around the world. Rockford is a member of the Microsoft Regional Director and MVP programs.   Topics of Discussion: [3:36] Rockford’s career path at Xebia and consulting. [5:18] Building frameworks that stand the test of time. [6:38] Changes in the CLSA user base and the two major inflection points. [11:40] How Rockford thinks about the general spectrum. [16:14] The ways we can improve education include decades of previous experience and education. [17:15] We need to ask why more. [28:12] The job of an application architect. [30:15] The “layer cake” as a visual way to express the concept. [32:57] Separating business logic from user interface. [33:53] The need for practical tools and frameworks that make developing easier. [34:05] The five layers in the layer cake approach. [47:03] The beauty of consistent coding.   Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Lhotka CSLA Episode 210 CSLA.NET Rockford Lhotka LinkedIn Rockford Lhotka Rockford Lhotka Blog   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

11 Mars 202450min

Jared Parsons: Designing C# and Testing a Compiler - Episode 287

Jared Parsons: Designing C# and Testing a Compiler - Episode 287

Jared Parsons, the Principal Developer Lead on the C# Compiler Team. Everybody tuning in probably uses his code on a day-to-day basis! Jared started at Microsoft 20 years ago as a Developer; moved on to become a Senior Developer; then the Principal Developer on Midori OS; and most recently, the Principal Developer on the C# Compiler Team, which he has been with since 2014.   Topics of Discussion: [3:14] Jared talks about his twisty career path. [5:29] What does designing a programming language look like? [6:18] The two features in C#. [10:30] The C# language design process. [14:09] How we get from ideas to designs and implementations. [16:02] Jared recommends resources to learn more. [17:34] Jared’s favorite convention for all the member types. [18:20] Primary constructors. [24:21] Is the entire compiler open source? [25:28] Thinking like a customer and pushing on the tools if needed. [30:33] How the process has changed over the years. [32:41] Jared’s favorite testing unit.   Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Jared Parsons on DevOps on the C# Compiler Team: Ep #53 Roslyn Github Roslyn Analyzers Github C# Language Github Jared on LinkedIn   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

4 Mars 202435min

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