Capers Jones on Software Quality and Productivity - Episode 150

Capers Jones on Software Quality and Productivity - Episode 150

This week, Jeffrey is joined by Capers Jones! Capers is a software engineer and prolific researcher and publisher. He's written over 17 books on software engineering, software metrics, and software best practices — covering quality, productivity, and many other topics. He is a founder of Namcook Analytics, which is an international software consulting company where he currently serves as the Chief Scientist. Mr. Jones has spoken at numerous conferences and also advises international governments in software engineering. Capers started his career as a software engineer in the Office of the Surgeon General for the United States but found his passion for research and advisement at IBM where he developed methods of large project cost estimation as well as methods for productivity and quality measurement.

Today, Capers continues to publish, speak and advise while he bridges the learnings and data of over 20,000 software projects to modern tools, languages, and software challenges. His latest book, Software Development Patterns and Antipatterns, is coming out in August 2021. You can pre-order it now on Amazon!

In this conversation, Capers shares about his career in software engineering and researching; his upcoming book, Software Development Patterns and Antipatterns; trends he has noticed in recent data and his research; and big shifts that developers should be aware of in the industry. Capers also gives his thoughts on defect prevention techniques, design review, decomposition, formal inspection, static analysis, reusability, and more. This episode is jampacked with information on software quality and productivity — so don't miss out!

Topics of Discussion:

[:14] About The Azure DevOps Podcast, Clear Measure, the new podcast Architect Tips, and Jeffrey's offer to speak at virtual user groups.

[1:22] About today's episode with Capers Jones.

[2:45] Jeffrey welcomes Capers to the podcast!

[3:19] What led Capers into this field of software engineering and research as well as some of his major career highlights.

[7:07] Capers recommends how to read through his body of work.

[8:32] About Capers' upcoming book, Software Development Patterns and Antipatterns.

[9:26] Key practices that Caper recommends every team should be engaging in.

[12:25] Has Capers found a difference in the trend of bugs for people who have decomposed software systems into multiple, smaller parts vs. keeping them all as a part of one codebase? (AKA the microservices movement)

[13:32] Capers talks defect prevention techniques.

[15:12] Defect detection or prevention/removal techniques for enterprise developers, or those running business applications, should employ.

[16:16] What is a design review and how can you conduct one?

[17:27] Ways that Capers has seen to implement a formal inspection that work well.

[19:05] Capers' thought process on static analysis today and what the data is showing.

[19:48] Capers shares what has changed in software engineering recently due to new data and research.

[23:04] Capers speaks about the importance of including users in the conversation as systems are being developed.

[24:25] Capers talks about' reuseability' when it comes to producing ½ million-1 million+ lines of code.

[25:16] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast's sponsor: Clear Measure.

[25:48] Capers gives practical advice based on research for mid-sized companies with 5-10 developers.

[27:53] Capers' thoughts on function points (and any objective measures for software size) in the modern world.

[28:42] What can development managers do to measure how big the software system is going to be, if their team is high-performing, etc.?

[30:05] What tool does Caper recommend to use?

[31:17] Caper gives a rundown of which tools you should be considering.

[33:51] How much new data has been gathered in the last several years compared to the past?

[34:15] What can a team do to submit their past projects to be included in the research?

[35:16] How and why you should apply function points today.

[41:08] Half of the developers in the industry today have less than 7 years of experience which means the number of programmers has doubled since 2014! Capers shares his thoughts on this.

[43:50] Capers and Jeffrey discuss other data and statistics regarding the industry.

[45:15] Capers shares some parting words on how and why you should pick up his newest book, Software Development Patterns and Antipatterns.

[46:03] Jeffrey thanks Capers for joining the podcast.

Mentioned in this Episode:

Architect Tips — New video podcast!

Azure DevOps

Clear Measure (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon!

bit.ly/dotnetdevopsebook — Click here to download the .NET DevOps for Azure ebook!

Jeffrey Palermo's Youtube

Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter Follow to stay informed about future events!

Namcook Analytics

Caper Jones' Email: Capers.Jones@gmail.com

Software Development Patterns and Antipatterns, by Capers Jones

Software Risk Master (SRM) Tool from Namcook

"Variations in Software Development by Function Point Size," by Capers Jones | IFPUG

Applied Software Measurement: Global Analysis of Productivity and Quality, by Capers Jones

Software Engineering Institute

Want to Learn More?

Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

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Ryan Booz: The State of the Database in 2025 - Episode 333

Ryan Booz: The State of the Database in 2025 - Episode 333

Ryan is an Advocate at Redgate focusing on PostgreSQL. Ryan has been working as a PostgreSQL advocate, developer, DBA, and product manager for over 20 years, primarily working with time-series data on PostgreSQL and the Microsoft Data Platform. Ryan is a long-time DBA, starting with MySQL and Postgres in the late '90s. He spent more than 15 years working with SQL Server before returning to PostgreSQL full-time in 2018. He's at the top of his game when learning something new about the data platform or teaching others about the technology he loves. Topics of Discussion: [4:10] What made Ryan a database guy? [6:11] CodeMash. [6:58] Discovering the potential of SQL Server. [12:02] The state of the database in 2025 and the things generalist developers should know. [15:27] The challenge of interfacing between database types. [19:57] Is Microsoft Fabric the future? [22:44] Postgres for .NET developers. [24:46] Nuances of migrating from SQL Server to Postgres. [26:01] Postgres resources for data professionals. [35:29] Postgres and its innovative edge. [38:30] What is a vector database? [39:45] The power of Postgres indexing. Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Ep 245 with Ryan Booz Figuring Out Fabric SQLGene Training Introduction to PostgreSQL for the data professional. Kindle Edition Postgres Playground pgEdge "Name Collision of the Year" Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

20 Jan 40min

James Montemagno: .NET Aspire with Azd - Episode 332

James Montemagno: .NET Aspire with Azd - Episode 332

James Montemagno is a Principal Lead Program Manager for the Developer Community at Microsoft. He has been a .NET developer since 2005, working in a wide range of industries including game development, printer software, and web services. Prior to becoming a Principal Program Manager, James was a professional mobile developer and has been crafting apps since 2011 with Xamarin. In his spare time, he is most likely cycling around Seattle or guzzling gallons of coffee at a local coffee shop. He co-hosts the weekly development podcast Merge Conflict mergeconflict.fm. Topics of Discussion: [:36] Jeffrey introduces the concept of .NET Aspire and highlights its integration with Azure DevOps and .NET ecosystem tools. [2:51] The evolution of .NET mobile and desktop development since 2005. [4:45] An overview of .NET Aspire and its focus on simplifying app development and infrastructure orchestration. [11:45] How .NET Aspire supports both local development and cloud deployment. [16:24] Integrating DevOps automation for Azure deployments using bicep templates and Azure Developer CLI (azd). [25:30] Generating infrastructure manifests and deploying them with Azure Developer CLI. [32:51] Configuring Azure resources like Redis Cache for development and deployment scenarios. [35:11] Simplifying cloud deployment for developers using Azure Container Apps. [39:37] Polyglot support in .NET Aspire projects, allowing integration with Python, JavaScript, and more. [44:50] Plans to integrate development tunnels to streamline mobile app testing. Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Ep 62 with James Montemagno James Montemagno James on YouTube James Montemagno GitHub James on DevOps James on X .NET Aspire Manifest plus + azd + Bicep == Mind Blown Aspire Dashboard Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

13 Jan 46min

Brady Gaster: Upgrading .NET apps - Episode 331

Brady Gaster: Upgrading .NET apps - Episode 331

Brady Gaster is a Principal Program Manager on the .NET and Visual Studio team at Microsoft where he works on Orleans, SignalR, microservices, APIs, and integration with Azure service teams in hopes of making it exciting for developers who work on .NET apps to party in the cloud! Topics of Discussion: [6:27] Collaboration with Azure Developer CLI. [8:08] The challenges of integrating ASP.NET Core with existing deployment methods like App Service. [11:45] The main questions they heard at the panel. [13:53] Deploying your dashboard to Azure Container apps. [24:31] Aspire builds on .NET and everything you can do with .NET, you can keep doing. [27:03] Tips for developing against Aspire resources. [27:50] The future focuses on security. [30:02] Optimizing your development environment around DevOps. [34:28] How much is Kubernetes an actual dependency, or can normal .NET applications just use App Service and not be tied to Kubernetes? [39:37] Brady's thoughts on the benefits of containers and the potential for easier alternatives in the future. [44:06] AI doing a better job of suggesting the right code. Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! "Building new (and retrofitting old) apps with .NET Aspire to streamline your development process" Ep 295 with Brady Gaster Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

6 Jan 47min

Aaron Powell: .NET Aspire Community Toolkit - Episode 330

Aaron Powell: .NET Aspire Community Toolkit - Episode 330

Aaron is a Developer Advocate at Microsoft. Having spent 15 years doing web development, he's seen it all, from browser wars to the rise of AJAX and the fall of 20 JavaScript frameworks (and that was just yesterday!). Always tinkering with something new, he explores crazy ideas like writing your own implementation of numbers in .NET, creating IoC in JavaScript, or implementing tic-tac-toe using git commits. When not sitting at a computer, he can be found spending time with his wife and kids. Topics of Discussion: [4:38] Aaron shares his career journey, including his time in consulting and technical sales. [6:48] The importance of understanding both technical and business aspects of software development. [7:36] .NET Aspire and the community toolkit. [15:21] Having a centralized place for discovering and contributing integrations. [17:02] Running Ollama. [21:12] Diving in more to the integration. [24:27] Deployment options for .NET Aspire applications, including Azure Container Apps and Kubernetes. [29:08] Testing and Acceptance with .NET Aspire. [35:02] The process of attaching debuggers to applications and the challenges of debugging distributed applications. [41:23] The community toolkit provides clear guidelines and contributing guides to help developers get involved. [43:42] How people can get more involved and contribute. Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! GitHub Community Toolkit Aaron Powell Aaron Powell Website Aaron Powell Microsoft Aaron on X Aaron on Mastodon Social Aaron on Twitch Aaron on LinkedIn Aaron on Bluesky Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

30 Dec 202447min

Sam Basu: Using AI for the User Interface - Episode 329

Sam Basu: Using AI for the User Interface - Episode 329

Sam Basu is a technologist, author, speaker, Microsoft MVP, and gadget-lover and is the Developer Advocacy Manager for Progress Software. With a long developer background, he now spends much of his time advocating modern development platforms & tools on Microsoft/Telerik technology stacks. His spare time calls for travel, fast cars, cricket, and culinary adventures. You can find him as @samidip on the internet. Topics of Discussion: [3:09] Sam shares his career journey and more about his background as a developer. [5:18] Meeting the users where they are and the importance of adaptability. [8:07] What kinds of use cases are available today for developers to use AI when it comes to UI? [9:15] The two-pronged approach to UI and UX. [13:33] Challenges and opportunities in AI integration. [16:21] Future of the user interface. [21:43] The AI models are exceptionally smart in understanding natural language. [25:41] How GitHub Copilot can help developers. [26:48] The limitations of GitHub Copilot. [30:46] The gap in training for developers for Copilot. [33:06] Use cases on Smart AI. [36:14] The importance of responsible AI development. Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Sam on X Sam Basu Sam Basu Microsoft Smart UI Powered by AI ASP.NET Core Smart AI Components Sakura AI Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

23 Dec 202437min

Jeff Fritz: .NET 9 and Beyond - Episode 328

Jeff Fritz: .NET 9 and Beyond - Episode 328

Jeff Fritz is an experienced developer, technical educator, and PM on the .NET team at Microsoft. He's the producer of the .NET Conf online series of events, and regularly livestreams builds of websites and fun applications. You can follow Jeff for more .NET, .NET Core, and, Visual Studio content on Twitch and Twitter at @csharpfritz. Topics of Discussion: [2:40] Jeff's background and the many roles he is involved in. [6:17] Key announcements from .NET Conf. [6:18] Starting with .NET Aspire, and getting it right with version 3. [11:24] Version 3 covers the unattended deployment process. [12:20] Benefits of the aspireify.net website. [18:23] AI extensions for .NET. [22:28] Recommendations for hardware for AI development. [25:35] The static assets features. [28:57] Using Github Copilot. [30:13] Remembering that AI is just a text calculator. [36:21] How people can catch up with the content from .NETConf. Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Ep 278 with Jeff Fritz TagzApp Fritz on the Web AI extensions for .NET Unified AI Building Blocks for .NET using Microsoft.Extensions.AI Introducing Phi-3 Introducing Whisper dotnet on YouTube Microsoft Ignite aspireify.NET Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

16 Dec 202441min

Ravi Ram: TechBash & Community Conferences - Episode 327

Ravi Ram: TechBash & Community Conferences - Episode 327

Ravi Ram is a software engineer specializing in .NET, Azure, and intensive, high-stakes software. He started developing in 1998 with basic websites. Moved from Classic ASP with Cart.ASP. After learning about SQL injections after a client hack, he was hired by the California Department of Justice to do that work. Ravi is completely self-taught and has contributed to countless software projects over 30 years. Topics of Discussion: [3:24] Ravi shares his career journey, starting with web design for a neighbor, moving to classic ASP, and eventually to .NET. [5:12] TechBash is a .NET conference in Pennsylvania, emphasizing its family-friendly atmosphere and the high attendance of families. [8:00] A few of Ravi's favorite moments and sessions from TechBash. [12:57] Going through code in real-time with one of the TechBash speakers. [16:51] How approachable, diverse, and friendly TechBash is. [17:11] Ravi talks about a session on scope logging with OpenTelemetry, which impressed him with its configuration capabilities. [27:49] Why the duo loves the word "seam"! [28:07] Encouragement for first-time speakers who may be interested in TechBash. Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Ravi Ram on LinkedIn https://www.linkedin.com/in/dhali/ Sandi Metz' Rules For Developers https://thoughtbot.com/blog/sandi-metz-rules-for-developers Llewellyn Falco refactoring https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWiwDdx_rdoSandi Metz' Rules For Developers https://thoughtbot.com/blog/sandi-metz-rules-for-developers Llewellyn Falco refactoring https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aWiwDdx_rdo Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

9 Dec 202430min

Greg Leonardo: The latest in Azure & AI - Episode 326

Greg Leonardo: The latest in Azure & AI - Episode 326

Greg is a Cloud Architect who assists organizations with cloud adoption and innovation. He is currently the Head of Microsoft Cloud Services at Built Global and also the founder of Webonology. He posts on a daily Cloud Blog — clouddailywire.com. He has been working in the IT industry since his time in the military and is a developer, teacher, speaker, and early adopter. Greg has worked in many facets of IT throughout his career and is currently the president of TampaDev, a community meetup that runs #TampaCC and various technology events throughout Tampa. Greg holds a certification as a Microsoft Certified Azure Solutions Architect Expert and Microsoft Certified Trainer and is an Azure MVP. Topics of Discussion: [3:14] Greg's career journey, his role as an innovator, and his early adoption of Azure. [4:00] The utility of "compute" in Azure and how it simplifies application deployment. [4:44] Recent developments in Azure and AI. [5:17] The pendulum swings between cloud and on-premises solutions, emphasizing the need for a balanced approach. [10:21] Strategies for streamlining business productivity — understanding there is no single "silver bullet." [14:08] How AI can enhance productivity and its evolving role in the workplace. [18:45] Encouraging the younger generation to challenge the status quo and simplify processes. [25:11] Addressing the global tech talent shortage and the role of AI in filling productivity gaps. [29:49] Ethical considerations and challenges in AI adoption, including the risks of misinformation and biases. [33:14] The potential future convergence of AI and quantum computing, and its implications for software development. [37:10] The responsibility of developers to verify AI-generated outputs, emphasizing the importance of critical thinking. Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer's Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo's Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Ep 282 with Greg Greg Leonardo Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

2 Dec 202447min

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