The Bull Case For Ethereum | Tom Dunleavy & Ryan Berckmans
Empire19 Maj 2025

The Bull Case For Ethereum | Tom Dunleavy & Ryan Berckmans

Gm! This week we're joined by Tom Dunleavy & Ryan Berckmans to discuss the bull case for Ethereum. We deep dive into Ethereum's big pivot, how to value the L1, should L2 tokens exist, the role of Etherealize, what's next for ETH & more. Enjoy! -- Start your day with crypto news, analysis and data from Katherine Ross. Subscribe to the Empire newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/empire?utm_source=podcasts Follow Ryan: https://x.com/ryanberckmans Follow Tom: https://x.com/dunleavy89 Follow Jason: https://x.com/JasonYanowitz Follow Santi: https://x.com/santiagoroel Follow Empire: https://twitter.com/theempirepod Join the Empire Telegram: https://t.me/+CaCYvTOB4Eg1OWJh -- Get top market insights and the latest in crypto news. Subscribe to Blockworks Daily Newsletter: https://blockworks.co/newsletter/ -- Grab your tickets to Permissionless IV. Use code EMPIRE10 for 10% off: https://blockworks.co/event/permissionless-iv -- ZKsync is the pioneering zero-knowledge technology powering the next generation of builders with limitless scale. Secured by math and designed for native interoperability, ZKsync enables an elastic, ever-expanding network of customizable chains. Deeply rooted in its mission to advance personal freedom for all, the ZKsync technology makes digital self-ownership universally available. To learn more about ZKsync, visit http://www.zksync.io -- Zenrock is a permissionless, decentralized custody network backed by 1RoundTable Partners, 10T, Maven11, and Spartan. Live on Jupiter, $ROCK is the native token for transactions within the Zenrock ecosystem and secures Zenrock’s decentralized custody network. The first application launching on Zenrock is zenBTC – yield-bearing Bitcoin on Solana. zenBTC will be live in April 2025. -- Crypto never sleeps. So we built an Al analyst that never blinks. Meet Focal by FalconX: a GenAI insights engine built for institutional crypto. Already used by 80+ funds managing $10B+ in AUM. 🔹 Screen, chart, and analyze 1300+ tokens 🔹 Summarize market-moving news instantly 🔹 Integrates data from CoinGecko, Kaito, Token Terminal, Tokenomist, The Tie Get started today: https://askfocal.com -- AO Mainnet is LIVE! Experience the future of decentralized computing: infinite parallel processing, secure TEE-powered computations, and LLMs in smart contracts. Built on Arweave, AO's modular design shatters scalability limits. 100% of tokens are distributed to Arweave holders and bridge depositors, with a fixed supply and halving. Explore AO today: https://ao.arweave.dev -- Timestamps: (00:00) Intro (01:50) What Went Wrong With Ethereum? (07:33) The Ethereum L2 Roadmap (10:35) Does Ethereum Have Product Market Fit? (13:46) Ethereum’s Big Pivot (18:11) Ads (ZKSync, Zenrock) (19:49) Should Blockspace Be Taxed? (22:15) Ethereum's Next Chapter (27:55) The Role Of Etherealize (30:18) Ads (ZKSync, Zenrock) (31:57) Does Scaling The L1 Benefit L2s? (42:38) How To Attract Builders To Ethereum (44:46) Ads (Falcon x,Arweave) (46:22) Should We Tariff The L2s? (51:35) How To Value L1s (56:50) The Bull Case For ETH (01:04:00) Should L2 Tokens Exist? (01:09:02) Final Thoughts — Disclaimer: Nothing said on Empire is a recommendation to buy or sell securities or tokens. This podcast is for informational purposes only, and any views expressed by anyone on the show are solely our opinions, not financial advice. Santiago, Jason, and our guests may hold positions in the companies, funds, or projects discussed.

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Why $USDC will become a $10 trillion stablecoin, with Jeremy Allaire

Why $USDC will become a $10 trillion stablecoin, with Jeremy Allaire

Jeremy Allaire takes us deep into the world of $USDC, stablecoins, and the future of money. ––– LUKKA Minimize your crypto taxes and maximize your refund with Lukka Essentials. Dozens of exchange APIs and hundreds of mapped file formats makes it easy to upload your transaction history. With no limits on exchanges or transaction count, file your 2020 taxes for just $19.95 whether you have 10 transactions or 1 million. Go to http://tax.lukka.tech/empire to sign up and generate 2020 tax forms today. ––– EXODUS Download the app today at http://exodus.com/empire and iOS users can buy up to $500 in Bitcoin for just $1 for a limited time. ––– Empire is brought to you by Blockworks, a financial media brand delivering breaking news and premium insights about digital assets to millions of investors. For more content like Empire, visit http://blockworks.co/podcasts. Follow me on Twitter @JasonYanowitz and let me know what you thought of the show!

20 Maj 20211h 24min

VC Colleen Sullivan explains how institutions and regulators view DeFi

VC Colleen Sullivan explains how institutions and regulators view DeFi

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13 Maj 20211h 1min

Why many Africans still use WhatsApp to buy Bitcoin, with Nelly Chatue-Diop

Why many Africans still use WhatsApp to buy Bitcoin, with Nelly Chatue-Diop

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6 Maj 20211h 12min

Michael Moro on Why Corporations Bought $8 Billion of Bitcoin in Q1

Michael Moro on Why Corporations Bought $8 Billion of Bitcoin in Q1

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29 Apr 20211h 22min

Why Jameson Lopp burned down his life to live in extreme privacy

Why Jameson Lopp burned down his life to live in extreme privacy

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22 Apr 20211h 16min

Ex Goldman Trader: The 80 Year Debt Cycle Will End With Wealth Redistribution

Ex Goldman Trader: The 80 Year Debt Cycle Will End With Wealth Redistribution

Before Bill Barhydt started Abra, he build security systems for the CIA and NASA. We talked about his time working for the government, as well as his role getting banks online through Netscape, and what is looks like to come out of a debt cycle. ––– LUKKA Minimize your crypto taxes and maximize your refund with Lukka Essentials. Dozens of exchange APIs and hundreds of mapped file formats makes it easy to upload your transaction history. With no limits on exchanges or transaction count, file your 2020 taxes for just $19.95 whether you have 10 transactions or 1 million. Go to http://tax.lukka.tech/empire to sign up and generate 2020 tax forms today. ––– EXODUS Download the app today at http://exodus.com/empire and iOS users can buy up to $500 in Bitcoin for just $1 for a limited time. ––– Empire is brought to you by Blockworks, a financial media brand delivering breaking news and premium insights about digital assets to millions of investors. For more content like Empire, visit http://blockworks.co/podcasts. Follow me on Twitter @JasonYanowitz and let me know what you thought of the show!

15 Apr 20211h 8min

Bootstrapping CoinGecko: The Fastest Growing Crypto Data Platform, with Bobby Ong

Bootstrapping CoinGecko: The Fastest Growing Crypto Data Platform, with Bobby Ong

Bobby Ong co-founded the fastest-growing crypto data aggregator, CoinGecko. We talked about how to build a crypto company so that it can last through a bear market — and why honesty is central to his business model. ––– LUKKA Minimize your crypto taxes and maximize your refund with Lukka Essentials. Dozens of exchange APIs and hundreds of mapped file formats makes it easy to upload your transaction history. With no limits on exchanges or transaction count, file your 2020 taxes for just $19.95 whether you have 10 transactions or 1 million. Go to tax.lukka.tech/empire to sign up and generate 2020 tax forms today. ––– EXODUS Download the app today at exodus.com/empire and iOS users can buy up to $500 in Bitcoin for just $1 for a limited time. ––– Empire is brought to you by Blockworks, a financial media brand delivering breaking news and premium insights about digital assets to millions of investors. For more content like Empire, visit http://blockworks.co/podcasts. Follow me on Twitter @JasonYanowitz and let me know what you thought of the show!

8 Apr 202151min

How Sam Bankman-Fried made $10 billion by the age of 28

How Sam Bankman-Fried made $10 billion by the age of 28

Sam Bankman-Fried and FTX made headlines when they acquired the naming rights to Miami's basketball stadium. We talk about how he got there, including everything from his childhood to his experience juggling arbitrage in Japan. ––– LUKKA Minimize your crypto taxes and maximize your refund with Lukka Essentials. Dozens of exchange APIs and hundreds of mapped file formats makes it easy to upload your transaction history. With no limits on exchanges or transaction count, file your 2020 taxes for just $19.95 whether you have 10 transactions or 1 million. Go to tax.lukka.tech/empire to sign up and generate 2020 tax forms today. ––– EXODUS Download the app today at exodus.com/empire and iOS users can buy up to $500 in Bitcoin for just $1 for a limited time. ––– Empire is brought to you by Blockworks, a financial media brand delivering breaking news and premium insights about digital assets to millions of investors. For more content like Empire, visit http://blockworks.co/podcasts. Follow me on Twitter @JasonYanowitz and let me know what you thought of the show!

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