The Secret Navy and Their Hunt for a Nazi Sub

Summary Hans Holmer (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss his time as a CIA operations officer and his transition to a cyber strategist. He served on every continent except South America and won a CIA Intelligence Star. What You’ll Learn Intelligence The advantages for a case officer growing up in two cultures and speaking multiple languages before joining the IC The tech person trained to be a case officer vs. a case officer trained to be a tech person debate That no amount of technology will make up for a lack of “cyber strategy” The concept of “digital dandruff” Reflections Growing up in Denmark, moving to the US for high school, joining the Army then CIA Privatizing information gains but collectivizing information losses What it was like to program back in 1973! And more… Episode Notes  Hans Holmer describes the cat-and-mouse of surveillance and counter-surveillance the most fun you can have (a) in public and (b) sober. Ever wondered how you go from a CIA case officer in the Sub-continent, to a technical counterintelligence evangelist who travelled the world, to a cyber strategist living in Vienna, Austria? To find out, listen to this week’s episode where you’ll find Hans thoughtful and articulate, but I think you will also appreciate his forthright views on corporate data leaks and digital personal responsibility. He originally got in touch to talk about the Operation Silver, the British intelligence operation that covertly tapped the communications of the Soviet Army HQ in Vienna, at SPY we actually have a piece – yes, an actual piece – of the Berlin Tunnel, which was a successor operation – betrayed by communist MI6 officer George Blake – which borrowed heavily from Silver: it was even called Operation Gold! The monitoring station in Op. Silver was disguised as a tweed clothing shop on the assumption that no one in Vienna would be interested in Scottish clothing! Hans actually tracked down the modern site of the tweed store and is trying to dig (no pun intended) for further information on the operation – can anyone help…? Quote of the Week "I've been arguing that the way to improve cyber security in the U.S. is very simple. Any company that loses personally identifiable information, payment card information, healthcare information, HIPAA data, or access to critical infrastructure, has to pay each victim a dollar a day from the beginning of the breach till it's been closed off…the average breach lasts about a hundred days…some of the more recent breaches are a hundred million people. So, imagine a hundred million people who get a dollar a day for a hundred days. Companies would take that seriously." Resources SpyCasts “Operation Gold” - Steve Vogel & Bernd von Kostka (Berlin Tunnel) “George Blake, Happy Traitor” – Simon Kuper (Berlin Tunnel) Zero Days – Nicole Perloth Part I and II (Cyber) “The Cyber Zeitgeist” – Dave Bittner (Cyber) “Snowden & Surveillance” – Barton Gellman (Cyber) Books Betrayal in Berlin, S. Vogel (CH, 2019) Spymaster – MI6 Chief Oldfield, M. Pearce (Transworld, 2016)  Documents on the Intelligence War in Berlin, D. Steury (CSI, 1999) Best Books on Cybersecurity (Five Books) Articles “Engineering the Berlin Tunnel,” SII (2008) “Betrayal in Berlin - Review,” WaPo (2019) Documentaries The Great Hack, Noujaim & Amer (2019) Zero Days, A. Gibney (2016) Education Cyber Training Series (DNI) The Danger of Stone Age Habits in a Cyber World (HSToday, 2019) Primary Sources Cyber Security Officer (CIA, 2022) CIA Director Burns - Cyber (WSJ, 2021) National Cyber Strategy of the USA (WH, 2018) Interview with CIA Director Brennan - Cyber (NPR, 2016) The IC’s Role Within Cyber R&D (FAS, 2013) Remarks by DNI Clapper at HPSCI (DNI, 2011) Securing Critical Infrastructure in the Age of Stuxnet (HSGA, 2010) Mail Service of the Soviet Army in Austria (CIA, 1955) Wildcard Resource “Technical Counterintelligence Officer,” INTEL.gov  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

8 Mars 20221h 1min

Summary Enrique “Ric” Prado (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss his new memoir “Black Ops.” One of the most renowned CIA officers of his generation tells his story. Book You can buy Ric’s book, Black Ops, and support the International Spy Museum’s mission here. What You’ll Learn Intelligence His time as CIA Counterterrorist Chief of Operations which included 9/11 His career battling communist insurgents and Islamic terrorists on multiple continents His experience living in “Contra” camps during the Nicaraguan Revolution His time as Dep. Chief of Station and co-founding member of the Bin Laden Task Force Reflections Conquering your emotions to stay focused in a crisis His journey fleeing the Cuban Revolution as a young boy to CIA via USAF Pararescue And much, much more… Episode Notes Ric Prado spent twenty-four-years in the CIA – and what a twenty-four years it was. His first 36 months were in the jungles of Central America as the first CIA officer to live among the “Contras,” including a period with the Miskito Native people; indeed, the photos he took ending up on the desk of CIA Director Bill Casey. So, what was it like at the pointy end of the Reagan Doctrine’s anti-communist spear, or as CIA Counterterrorist Center Chief of Ops during 9/11? To find out, and to hear more about Ric’s storied career, Andrew sat down with him for this week’s episode. One of the meanings of the noun “legend” is “a story coming down from the past.” Many people who were in the business at the CIA and elsewhere will have heard the stories that come down from the past re Enrique “Ric” Prado, but now we all have a chance to hear Ric set the record straight in his own words.  And… If Ric’s communist uncle hadn’t alerted the family that his school intended to send him off to the Soviet Union as a promising student for further education…if he hadn’t taken an Oceanography class at Miami Dade College and met someone who led him to USAF Pararescue…if he hadn’t been tipped off that he was to be killed in a Contra camp during the night and extricated himself from the situation…as Bob Dylan said, summing up so much of the human condition, “one more time, for a simple twist of fate.” Quote of the Week "The wiring was there and the mentoring from my dad…then the trip to the orphanage. And then definitely when I got into pararescue…being one of our special operations forces, the training is very, very intense…And making it through SERE school, making it through mountain climbing school. There's a certain level of conquering your emotions that you have to do…But I think that the most important thing was that I believed in what I was doing." – Ric Prado Resources SpyCast Episodes In the CT Center on 9/11, C. Storer A Life in the CIA, Hank Crumpton Interview with Cofer Black CT, Nicholas Rasmussen CT Strategy: P. Bergen & C. Costa Rethinking CT: J. Blazakis Books The Reagan Doctrine, J. Scott (DUP, 1996)  The Real Contra War, T. Brown (UOP, 2001) Insurgency to Stability, “The Philippines,” Rabasa et al., (RAND, 2011) Shining Path’s Politics of War, C. Degregori (UWP, 2012) Red Revolution: Philippine Guerillas, G. Jones (Routeledge, 2019) The Shining Path, Starn & Serna (Norton, 2019) US Relations with Latin America (Five Books) Articles “Shining Path Leader Dead,” BBC (2021) “Nicaragua Veers to Dictatorship,” J. Cordoba, WSJ (2021) Documentaries Nicaragua Was Our Home (L. Shapiro, 1985) Ballad of the Little Soldier (W. Herzog, 1985) Primary Sources President Carter to Somoza (Brown, 1979) Reagan Covert Ops. Nicaragua (NSA, 1981) US Aid to Nicaragua (1982) Reagan Covert Ops. Nicaragua (Brown, 1983) Goldwater to Casey, “I’m Pissed Off” (Brown, 1984) Reagan State Of The Union (APP, 1985) Reagan Address Nicaragua (ReaganLib, 1986) Contras Lost Congress (WaPo, 1986) 25 Years of the NPA (Hartford, 1994)  Wildcard Resource The Clash, Sandanista (Album, 1980) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

28 Feb 20221h 5min

Summary J. Scott Cameron (LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the National Intelligence University (NIU). He is the President of this unique “skiffed” institution. What You’ll Learn Intelligence o  The NIU – what it is, what it does, and what it does differently. o  NIU’s position within the American intelligence ecosystem o  How NIU “banks knowledge” without compromising intelligence o  What it is like to be a student in a Top Secret/Sensitive Compartmentalized Information (TS-SCI) research facility Reflections o  20th century institutions for 21st century problems o  Scott’s journey from a plant biologist who has been shot at, to his recruitment into the IC at a high school soccer match, to NIU President And much more… Quote of the Week "We do work in secret. So how do you bank knowledge in that kind of a community? All communities that are healthy bank knowledge and learn from it. So, our job is not just to be a classroom, but to be that defender of knowledge building in the community to make sure that we're learning from ourselves, that we understand ourselves and advance our mission by better ideas and then empowering the next generation to take those and equip them with the confidence to go out there and do something with it." – Scott Cameron Episode Notes “TS-SCI” is one of the major terms you will hear with regards to American intelligence, but what happens if you cross that with the concept of “the university,” a place that relies on sharing information, pooling knowledge, and the free flow of ideas? To find out how this circle is squared, Andrew sat down with President of the National Intelligence University, Scott Cameron. The NIU, which is housed at the Intelligence Community Campus Bethesda (ICCB), alongside our friends at the NCSC and quite a few other agencies, is unique in many ways. It is behind “guards, guns, and gates,” you need TS-SCI clearance to apply, and tuition is courtesy of the government. The staff-student ratio is also in the very top tier of the 4000 or so degree granting institutions in the United States. It transitioned from the DIA to the ODNI in June of 2021. And… Scott’s grandmother was from Glasgow, as was Allan Pinkerton, Bobby Thompson, Craig Ferguson, and Christina Conte (try her fish n’ chips recipe!). Incidentally, there are many more Glasgow’s in the United States than in Scotland, at 21. Further Resources SpyCast Episodes ·     Joint Special Operations University President “Ike” Wilson Virtual Exhibition ·     Wall of Spies (ICC-B)   Books ·     China’s Artificial Intelligence Ecosystem, R. Uber (2020) ·     History of American Higher Ed., R. Geiger (2016) ·     Higher Ed. & the Growth of Knowledge, M. Segre (2015) ·     NIU’s Role in Interagency Research, Johnson et al. (2013) Articles ·     Eisenhower Signs National Defense Intelligence Ed. Act (Politico, 2018) ·     Goldwater-Nichols & the Evolution of JPME (CRS, 2016) ·     The Origins of JPME (JFQ, 2005) Audio ·     NIU Moving Under ODNI Umbrella (FedNewsNet, 2021) Websites ·     NIU Degrees (NIU) ·     NIU Catalog, 2021-22 (NIU) ·     College of Strategic Intelligence (NIU) ·     School of Science & Technology Intelligence (NIU) ·     Institute for Intelligence Research (NIU) ·     IC Centers for Academic Excellence (DNI) Primary Sources ·     The American Scholar, R. Waldo Emerson (Em.Cent., 1837) ·     The Idea of a University, J. H. Newham (1852, 1858) ·     National Defense Education Act of 1958 (FedEdPolicy) ·     Degree Granting Authority for NIU (GovInfo, 2012) ·     US Intelligence Community’s Human Capital Vision 2020 (DNI, 2014) ·     The National Intelligence Strategy of the US (DNI, 2019) ·     NIC - Global Trends 2040 (DNI, 2021) Wildcard Resource How to set up a “SCIF,” aka: ·  “Technical Specifications for Construction & Management of Sensitive Compartmented Information Facilities” (DNI, 2020) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

22 Feb 20221h 8min

Summary David Fricker (Website; LinkedIn) had the No.2 job at Australia’s security and intelligence agency ASIO. He sat down with Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss the relationship between this role and his most recent one as Director-General of the National Archives of Australia. What You’ll Learn… Intelligence o  ASIO, the Australian intelligence landscape and the region o  His role as CIO and then Deputy-Director General of ASIO o  The role major allies & partners play including the US and Five Eyes (FVEY) o  David’s views on intelligence and public trust Reflections o  David’s abiding interest in the power of information o  The importance of museums and archives in a knowledge society And much more… Episode Notes Ever wondered what it would be like to go from gamekeeper to poacher, spy chief to chief archivist and - as this week's guest said tongue-in-cheek - the “biggest blabber-mouth in the country”? If the answer is yes, you’ll appreciate this week’s guest David Fricker, who has had all manner of interesting jobs, including a ten-year stint with the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation (ASIO), akin to the FBI and MI5, followed by ten years with the National Archives of Australia. By way of information, the “Australian Intelligence Community” is also comprised of: the Australian Secret Intelligence Service (ASIS), similar to the CIA; Defence Intelligence Organisation (DIO), similar to the DIA; the Australian Signals Directorate (ASD), similar to the NSA; and Australian Geo-spatial Intelligence Organization (AGO), similar to the NGA; and Office of National Intelligence (ONI), similar to the ODNI. And…  David was a pretty mean COBOL programmer back in the day, a computer language that grew out of a Department of Defence sponsored program to find a common business language. You can learn it here. It is a legacy software system across the U.S. government and you can command six-figure salaries if you can program in it: any retirement plans David? Quote of the Week "I think what the SPY museum does and what I hope we do at the National Archives in Australia, gets back to the public...some of it can be quite entertaining. It can be quite engaging and fun, but the work we do has got a serious message as well. And I think it's to make sure the public in a liberal democracy, the public should know. What espionage, what spycraft is all about." – David Fricker   Further Resources SpyCasts o  “Desperately, Madly in Love” – Brett Peppler and the Australian IC o  “I was a Presidential Daily Briefer on 9/11” – Mike Morell & President Bush Virtual Exhibition o  Spy: Espionage in Australia (NAA) Books o  Spies & Sparrows: ASIO & the Cold War, P. Deery (2022) o  Between Five Eyes, A. Wells (2020) o  Intelligence & the Function of Government, D. Baldino & E. Crawley (2018) o  The Official History of ASIO – 3 Volumes, D. Horner, J. Blaxland, R. Crawley (2014/2015/2016) Articles o  “Strategic Intelligence Practice in the Australian IC,” P. Walsh & M. Harrison, INS, 2021) o  “The Post-9/11 Evolution of an Australian National Security Community,” D. Jones, INS (2016) o  “ASIO Debate”, L. Clohesy, The Conversation (2014) Audio o  Spymasters & Secret Agents: the Birth of ASIO (ABC, 2022) o  ASIO’s Official History, J. Blaxland (The Conversation, 2015) Documentary o  Final Rendezvous (ABC, 2020) Websites o  ASIO (ASIO) o  NAA (NAA) Primary Sources o  Letter to Petrov from Prime Minister Menzies (1954) o  Royal Commission on Espionage Report (1955) o  ASIO Report on Ric Throssell (1971-74, NAA) o  Report on ASIO (NLA, 1977) o  Australian Intelligence, 1900-1950 (NAA, 1977) o  Soviet Embassy Contact with Members of Parliament (1971-86) o  ASIO Annual Report 2020-21 (2021, ASIO) Further Research o  History of Intelligence & Security (NAA) o  US-Australia Diplomatic Oral Histories (ADST) Wildcard Resource Pine Gap o  A fictional portrayal of a real-world AUS-US spy site in Central Australia (Netflix, 2018) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

15 Feb 20221h 4min

Summary Joe Weisberg (Twitter) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss his new book on Russia. Joe is the creator of award-winning TV drama The Americans and a former CIA officer. What You’ll Learn Intelligence o  His past experience as a hardliner who loved to hate the “evil empire” o  His thoughts on a trip through the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe in the twilight of the Cold War, especially experiencing it as an American Jew o  His interpretation of the KGB and Vladimir Putin o  His take on the “moral equivalency” argument and U.S. foreign policy ·Reflections o  The role of complexity vs. simplicity in understanding “the Other” o  Joe’s journey from the Chicago suburbs of Illinois to Langley to New York City And much, much more… Episode Notes “How dare you, Joe Weisberg, make me rethink my comfortable loathing of the Russians.” Not Andrew’s words, but those of former chief of CIA counterintelligence James Olson in an encomium for the book (albeit a little tongue-in-cheek). If that is not enough to get you intrigued in Joe’s new book, Russia Upside Down, then perhaps the sub-title will, An Exit Strategy for the Second Cold War. So how do we get out of the Second Cold War? To find out Joe’s diagnosis and prognosis, and much else besides, Andrew sat down with him for this week’s episode. A fair number of listeners will know of Joe as creator of the award-winning and hugely popular TV series, The Americans, some may even know that he had a three-and-a-half-year stint in the CIA where he trained to be a case officer; a few may even be a know him from his stint at the Agency which began on the eve of the dissolution of the Soviet Union. And… The Americans is set in and around NoVa which is replete with all manner of famous sites from intelligence history – including the Arlington home of real-life Russian illegals Nataliya Pereverzeva and Michael Zottoli Mikhail Kutsik who were rolled up by the FBI in 2010 as part of Operation Ghost Stories” which we cover in our exhibits. Quote of the Week "When I was working at the CIA and in my younger years, I had a very one-dimensional view of this evil empire, this totalitarian state that we had to fight because we were the good guys, and we were the bad guys. And the book that I've written is essentially a kind of argument with myself or me with my younger self to say, huh, I think you were not looking at that in all the complexity that you might have." – Joe Weisberg FURTHER RESOURCES SpyCasts o  KGB Illegal Jack Barsky here and here o  The Spymasters Prism: CIA Legend Jack Devine on Countering Russian Aggression o  2010 Russian Spy Case – KGB Major General Oleg Kalugin o  Spy Sites of Washington D.C. Books o  Putin’s People: How the KGB Took Back Russia, Catherine Belton (2020) o  The New Tsar: Rise & Reign of Vladimir Putin, Steven Lee Myers (2016). o  Spy Handler: Memoir of a KGB Officer - The Man Who Recruited Robert Hanssen & Aldrich Ames, Victor Cherkashin (2004) o  The Caucasus, Thomas De Waal (2018) o  Khrushchev's Thaw and National Identity in Soviet Azerbaijan, Jamil Hasanli (2014) o  The Best Books on Contemporary Russia (Five Books) Articles o  “Dictatorship and Double Standards,” Jeane Kirkpatrick, Commentary (1979) o  NATO Enlargement & Russia (NATO, 2014) o  “False Equivalence” & “Tu Quoque”, IEP Documentaries o  The Putin Interviews (ShowTime, 2017) o  Cold War 2.0, Vice/HBO (2015) Primary Sources o  Russian-Chinese Relations (CIA, 1998) o  Putin’s Munich Speech, (WaPo, 2007) o  Interview With KGB/SVR Illegal (Chekist Monitor, 2020) o  U.S. Ambassadors to Russia Interviewed (NSA) o  US-Russia Oral Histories (ADST) o  Archival Research on Russia (NSA) Enjoy the show? Please leave a review here. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

8 Feb 20221h 1min

Summary David Cattler (Twitter; LinkedIn) joins Andrew (Twitter; LinkedIn) to discuss how intelligence functions at NATO. He is the NATO Assistant Secretary General for Intelligence and Security. What You’ll Learn o  What it is like to be the leader of intelligence and security across the largest peacetime alliance in history? o  How does intelligence come together at NATO – who are the key-players, institutions, and stakeholders? o  What are some of the main challenges facing the Alliance including Russia and Cyber? o  “Reading” an institution and its key players o  The importance of “soft skills” in professional life Episode Notes Every polisci student knows from their Plato to NATO class, that NATO is (a) considered the most successful alliance of its kind in history and (b) was founded in 1949. As you can imagine, intelligence is incredibly important to the whole endeavor, so why has NATO only had an intelligence supremo since 2016? To find out the answer, and much else besides, Andrew sat down with David Cattler. David is (a) the principal advisor on intelligence to the NATO Secretary General and (b) the lead for coordinating intelligence relationships between NATO and the 75 individual intelligence agencies across its 30 constituent nations (talk about herding cats). With Russian forces built up on the Ukrainian border in February 2022, the timing of this episode is, well, germane. And… Andrew picked David up outside the U.S. Department of State and drove him to the SpyCast studio at SPY – if the traffic is right, you can do it in under 10 minutes! Quote of the Week  "The secretary general is my boss but imagine him in this context to put it in a different frame is that he is the CEO of a large international conglomerate that engages in multiple business lines. And I am the CEO of the business line for intelligence and security. The nation's intelligence services in effect are my corporate board. So, they provide that governance and the oversight for all the work." – David Cattler Further Resources SpyCasts o  Able Archer 83: An Interview with Nate Jones o  Our Latest Long War: An Interview with Ben Jones Books o  Enduring Alliance: A History of NATO & the Postwar Global Order, Timothy Andrews Sayle (2019) o  How NATO Adapts: Strategy & Organization in the Alliance Since 1950, Seth A. Johnson (2017) o  The Memoirs of General Lord Ismay, Lord Ismay (1960) o  Present at the Creation, Dean Acheson (1969) o  The Best Books on Contemporary Russia (Five Books) Video o  What is NATO, Why Does it Exist, and How Does it Work? (NATO) o  How Does a Country Join NATO? (NATO) Documentary o  The Cold War, Narrated by Kenneth Branagh (CNN 1998) Websites o  NATO Declassified (NATO) o  NATO (Atlantic Council) o  NATO (RUSI) Primary Sources o  The North Atlantic Treaty (1949) o  Address by Harry S. Truman on the Signing of the North Atlantic Treaty (1949) o  North Atlantic Council – First Session – Summary Minutes (1949) o  Historical Holdings on NATO (Eisenhower Library) o  The NATO Problem: French Forces in Europe (CIA, 1966) o  Being NATO’s Secretary General on 9/11 (2011) o  USNATO Oral Histories (ADST) Enjoy the show? Please leave a review here Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

1 Feb 20221h 1min

"The Wright Brothers of the U.S. Drone Warfare Program." That is how some people have referred to this week's guests, Alec Bierbauer and Mark Cooter. Andrew sat down with them to dig into drones and their intelligence implications. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

25 Jan 20221h

This was the most popular episode of 2020. Apparently, people are interested in the views of former GCHQ Director, Joint Intelligence Committee Chair, and first UK Security and Intelligence Coordinator on, well - how spies think. I am sure David – now a Visiting Professor at Kings College, London – has a few thoughts on the subject. Hear Andrew debrief this week’s guest on the insights derived from a career spent at the summit of British intelligence. 1 Book, 2 Glaswegians, 10 Lessons in Intelligence. It’s simple, really. Sláinte! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

18 Jan 20221h 1min