BONUS: Never Stop Experimenting—Building a Culture of Continuous Discovery | Stavros Stavru

Richard Brenner: Hypothesis-Driven Product Ownership, The Experimental Mindset Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. The Great Product Owner: The Experimenter Richard describes great Product Owners as "experimenters" who understand that everything they do is a hypothesis requiring validation. The best POs establish feedback loops early, actively engage with users and clients, and approach product development with a scientific mindset. Richard shares an experience working with a "coaching PO" who excelled at involving everyone in defining what needed to be done.  This PO was inspiring and helped the team participate in both building and decision-making processes. Richard emphasizes that the relationship between PO and team must be a true partnership—not hierarchical—for success to occur. Great POs facilitate team involvement rather than dictating direction, creating an environment where collaborative problem-solving thrives. In this segment, we refer to the Role Expectation Matrix Retrospective, and the Product Owner Sprint Checklist, a hands-on coaching tool for anyone interested in helping PO’s prepare and lead successful Sprints with their teams. The Bad Product Owner: The Tech Visionary Disconnected from Users Richard recounts working with a high-level sponsor, a medical doctor interested in technology, who hired multiple development teams (up to four Scrum teams) to build a product. While technically knowledgeable, this PO had very concrete ideas about both the technology and solution based on assumptions about client needs.  The team developed impressive technology, including a domain-specific language (DSL), and felt they were performing well—until they delivered to actual clients. Only then did they discover users couldn't effectively use the software, requiring a complete rethinking of the UX concept. This experience taught Richard the critical distinction between the customer (the sponsor/PO) and the actual end users, demonstrating how even technically sophisticated Product Owners can miss essential user needs without proper validation. Self-reflection Question: How might you help Product Owners in your organization balance their vision with the practical realities of user needs and feedback? [Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🚀 Global Agile Summit 2025 Join us in Tallinn, Estonia, from May 18th – 20th, 2025, for an event that will inspire, challenge, and equip you with real-world Agile success stories. 🌍 Connect with global Agile leaders. 💡 Learn practical strategies for impact. 🔥 Break free from Agile fatigue and become a Pragmatic Innovator. Check Full Program [Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Richard Richard is a versatile technology leader with experience as a Software Engineer, Product Owner, and Agile Coach. Passionate about building software that excites, he thrives at the intersection of technology, change, and leadership. Lately, he's focused on Collaborative Modeling, bridging disciplines to drive innovation and create meaningful impact. You can link with Richard Brenner on LinkedIn.

18 Apr 20min

Richard Brenner: Contracting for Success,  Establishing Clear Agile Coaching Outcomes Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Richard reflects on his evolution in defining success as a Scrum Master and Agile Coach. Initially, he believed that if his team was successful, he was successful—but soon realized this perspective was incomplete. Top management wanted tangible evidence of coaching impact, which became problematic without clearly defined metrics. Richard now advocates for establishing a coaching agreement at the beginning of any engagement, with both management and teams defining what success looks like for the coach. He emphasizes the importance of dual-sided accountability as a natural outcome of proper contracting, using metrics that matter to the organization such as flow metrics and outcome metrics to demonstrate coaching value. Self-reflection Question: How are you measuring your own success as a coach or Scrum Master, and have you created explicit agreements with both teams and management about what success looks like? Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: Solution Focused Retrospective Richard recommends the Solution Focused Retrospective from the book "Solution Focused Coaching for Agile Teams." While traditional retrospective formats from books like "Agile Retrospectives" typically open a topic and dig deeply into the problem space, the solution-focused approach suggests spending only a short time discussing problems before pivoting to designing the desired future state. This format focuses on identifying the next step and emphasizing what positive outcomes the team wants to achieve, rather than dwelling on what's wrong. Richard values this approach for its ability to maintain a positive, forward-thinking mindset within teams. [Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🚀 Global Agile Summit 2025 Join us in Tallinn, Estonia, from May 18th – 20th, 2025, for an event that will inspire, challenge, and equip you with real-world Agile success stories. 🌍 Connect with global Agile leaders. 💡 Learn practical strategies for impact. 🔥 Break free from Agile fatigue and become a Pragmatic Innovator. Check Full Program [Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Richard Richard is a versatile technology leader with experience as a Software Engineer, Product Owner, and Agile Coach. Passionate about building software that excites, he thrives at the intersection of technology, change, and leadership. Lately, he's focused on Collaborative Modeling, bridging disciplines to drive innovation and create meaningful impact. You can link with Richard Brenner on LinkedIn.

17 Apr 16min

Richard Brenner: When Individual Performance Metrics Block Agile Transformation Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Richard shares an experience of implementing Agile methods in a large organization that initially showed promising signs with management "pull" for change. The transformation began well with cross-functional teams created through self-selection workshops. However, unexpected resistance emerged during the kick-off day, particularly from a line manager and his team. When investigating the source of this resistance, Richard discovered that the company's bonus structure was tied to individual performance metrics, fundamentally conflicting with Agile's team-oriented approach.  This insight led to developing a pilot for a team-focused performance management system. After three months, the team held a retrospective with all stakeholders, where management demonstrated remarkable leadership by empowering teams to redesign their structure when the initial setup wasn't working. This flexibility allowed even the most vocal critics to become part of the solution. Self-reflection Question: In what ways might your organization's reward structures be unintentionally blocking successful Agile adoption? [Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🚀 Global Agile Summit 2025 Join us in Tallinn, Estonia, from May 18th – 20th, 2025, for an event that will inspire, challenge, and equip you with real-world Agile success stories. 🌍 Connect with global Agile leaders. 💡 Learn practical strategies for impact. 🔥 Break free from Agile fatigue and become a Pragmatic Innovator. Check Full Program [Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Richard Richard is a versatile technology leader with experience as a Software Engineer, Product Owner, and Agile Coach. Passionate about building software that excites, he thrives at the intersection of technology, change, and leadership. Lately, he's focused on Collaborative Modeling, bridging disciplines to drive innovation and create meaningful impact. You can link with Richard Brenner on LinkedIn.

16 Apr 17min

Richard Brenner: How Small Signs of Cynicism Can Destroy Agile Team Cohesion Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Richard shares a powerful story about how team dysfunction often starts with small steps. During a joint retrospective with three agile teams, Richard witnessed a moment where a team member made a cynical comment toward a manager who was attempting to participate. This revealed a damaged relationship between management and the team, creating tension that Richard initially chose to ignore. Looking back, he would now immediately address such comments and tackle the "elephant in the room." Richard explains how seemingly minor behaviors like cynicism or passive-destructive actions (such as consistently being late to stand-ups) can significantly impact team health. He recommends establishing conflict resolution protocols early and using impact feedback without judgment to address these issues before they escalate. In this segment, we refer to Lysa Adkins’ conflict resolution protocol.  Self-reflection Question: What small signs of dysfunction might you be overlooking in your team that could develop into larger problems? Featured Book of the Week: Solution Focused Coaching for Agile Teams Richard recommends "Solution Focused Coaching for Agile Teams" by Ralph and Veronika. This book describes the solution-focused approach to many common situations that Agile coaches face in their work. Richard values this resource for its practical guidance on addressing challenges through a positive, solution-oriented perspective rather than dwelling on problems. [Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🚀 Global Agile Summit 2025 Join us in Tallinn, Estonia, from May 18th – 20th, 2025, for an event that will inspire, challenge, and equip you with real-world Agile success stories. 🌍 Connect with global Agile leaders. 💡 Learn practical strategies for impact. 🔥 Break free from Agile fatigue and become a Pragmatic Innovator. Check Full Program [Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Richard Richard is a versatile technology leader with experience as a Software Engineer, Product Owner, and Agile Coach. Passionate about building software that excites, he thrives at the intersection of technology, change, and leadership. Lately, he's focused on Collaborative Modeling, bridging disciplines to drive innovation and create meaningful impact. You can link with Richard Brenner on LinkedIn.

15 Apr 15min

Richard Brenner: Skipping the Vision, How Not to Introduce Kanban Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. Richard shares an important learning experience from introducing Kanban to teams using a top-down approach. Without clearly articulating why the change was needed, team members questioned what they were doing wrong that necessitated change. Richard found himself unable to connect the organizational vision to the methodology shift, leading to resistance. He emphasizes the importance of first understanding the problem before applying Scrum or Kanban, defining what success looks like, and involving people early in the change process. Richard also recommends thorough contracting with client organizations to assess their current state and understand who is trying to change what, and why. In this episode, we refer to Kotter’s book Leading Change. Self-reflection Question: How might your change initiatives be improved by spending more time defining the "why" before introducing new methodologies? [Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🚀 Global Agile Summit 2025 Join us in Tallinn, Estonia, from May 18th – 20th, 2025, for an event that will inspire, challenge, and equip you with real-world Agile success stories. 🌍 Connect with global Agile leaders. 💡 Learn practical strategies for impact. 🔥 Break free from Agile fatigue and become a Pragmatic Innovator. Check Full Program [Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Richard Richard is a versatile technology leader with experience as a Software Engineer, Product Owner, and Agile Coach. Passionate about building software that excites, he thrives at the intersection of technology, change, and leadership. Lately, he's focused on Collaborative Modeling, bridging disciplines to drive innovation and create meaningful impact. You can link with Richard Brenner on LinkedIn.

14 Apr 22min

BONUS: NVC, Walking Towards Conflict with Love With Maria Arpa and Bob Marshall In this BONUS episode, we explore Nonviolent Communication (NVC), a powerful tool that has changed how many people work and relate to family, friends, and colleagues. Maria Arpa, a previous guest on the podcast, and who studied directly under Marshall Rosenberg, the creator of NVC, shares her insights on this transformative practice. Joining us is Bob Marshall, an NVC advocate and practitioner who applies these principles in organizational settings. Understanding the Foundation of Nonviolent Communication "We have universal needs... what we try to distinguish is the need and the strategy I'm using to meet the need." Nonviolent Communication is both a practical communication tool and a spiritual practice designed to help us connect more authentically with ourselves and others. Maria explains how NVC emerged from the work of Dr. Marshall Rosenberg, who studied under Carl Rogers, the developer of person-centered therapy. At its core, NVC represents a paradigm shift away from what Maria calls "domination culture" – a system built on hierarchy, punishment, and obedience to rules. The dominant culture in which we live often relies on fear, guilt, and shame to motivate behavior. In contrast, NVC comes from the philosophy of nonviolence, encouraging people to be independent thinkers who make choices from their own internal compass. This approach recognizes that all people have the potential to manifest love, even in challenging situations. The Power of Needs-Based Theory "If I take a need for fairness or respect... how many ways are there to meet that need? And what if you believe you're meeting your need for fairness using whatever strategy you're using, and I believe that is impacting on my need for respect? We have a collision in strategies." A fundamental aspect of NVC is needs-based theory. Maria explains that while we all share universal needs – from basic physical requirements like air and food to psychological needs like creativity, recognition, and fairness – conflicts arise not from the needs themselves but from the strategies we use to meet those needs. This distinction between needs and strategies offers a powerful framework for resolving conflicts. When we understand that we're arguing over strategies, not the underlying needs, we can empathize with each other and explore different approaches that honor everyone's needs. As Maria advises, "Don't try to strategize until you understand all the needs on the table." Breaking Free from the Debate Model "The debate model of conversation is about one argument prevailing over all others... it's a terrible idea for when we want to meet as humans and have a conversation." Maria highlights how our society has embraced the debate model of conversation, where one perspective must win over others. This approach, while potentially useful in controlled settings like scientific research, creates significant problems in human interactions. When operating in debate mode, we're focused on overpowering others or protecting ourselves from humiliation rather than genuinely connecting. The dialogue roadmap that Maria developed offers an alternative to this debate model. It allows people to express themselves fully – to "empty out" everything they're carrying, even if it doesn't initially make coherent sense. This process helps people make sense of their experiences and move toward authentic dialogue rather than competitive debate. NVC in Organizations: Addressing Collective Needs "Needs are getting ignored in most organizations... it's not that we have shared needs and we debate about the strategies for getting those needs met." Bob Marshall, an organizational psychotherapist, explains how NVC principles can transform workplace dynamics. He observes that many organizations operate through "fear, obligation, guilt, and shame" – what he calls "the four horsemen of the work apocalypse." These mechanisms are used to control behavior but create toxic environments that diminish both productivity and well-being. By applying NVC in organizational settings, Bob helps collective entities recognize and address their needs. Many companies are unaware of their collective needs, and some cultures even shame people for acknowledging needs exist. Helping organizations understand their shared needs creates a foundation for healthier, more productive workplaces where people can thrive rather than merely survive. In this segment, we refer to an episode with Michelle Pauk, where we explore the lessons from Foucault’s Book Discipline and Punish, and to Manfred Max-Neef, a Chilean economist. The Connection Before Correction Principle "One of the most wonderful things is connection before correction." Maria emphasizes the importance of building relationships before attempting to change behaviors or address problems. She suggests that our fast-paced world has created a situation where our emotional processing cannot keep up with the speed of our actions and decisions. We've become skilled at multitasking and meeting deadlines but haven't paid adequate attention to our emotional needs. The result is that many people are emotionally "backed up" or "constipated" – unable to process their feelings in healthy ways. Maria's work involves slowing things down to create space for authentic connection and emotional integration. This approach doesn't sacrifice efficiency – as she notes, "We get more done with less resource once we've been through the tunnel." Learning Directly from Marshall Rosenberg "Marshall Rosenberg said, 'The people that are going to take this forward will have the right balance of compassionate understanding and political savvy.' And I just went, 'That's me.'" Maria shares her personal journey with NVC, beginning with a chance encounter at her son's school that led her to attend a presentation by Marshall Rosenberg. She was immediately captivated by his approach, which answered questions she had been unable to resolve through other therapies and educational frameworks. Her pivotal experience came in 2005 when she joined Rosenberg and others for a 15-day intensive in Switzerland focused on social change. This immersive experience transformed her understanding of communication and human connection. When she asked Rosenberg who would carry his work forward, his answer about needing both "compassionate understanding and political savvy" resonated deeply with her, setting her on a path to develop her own applications of NVC principles. In this segment, we refer to the book The Surprising Purpose of Anger by Marshall Rosenberg. About Maria Arpa and Bob Marshall Maria Arpa is a facilitator, mediator, and trainer who describes her work as "walking towards conflict with love." She developed the Dialogue Road Map, a framework that builds on NVC principles to guide people out of debate-style conversations into authentic dialogue. Maria studied directly under Dr. Marshall Rosenberg and has applied NVC in various challenging contexts, including working with gang violence and facilitating dialogue between concentration camp survivors and a business that had purchased a former concentration camp site. You can link with Maria Arpa on LinkedIn and follow Maria’s work on her website. Bob Marshall is an organizational psychotherapist who works with the collective psyche of organizations. He has been studying and practicing NVC for over 15 years, incorporating it into his work helping organizations understand and meet their collective needs. Bob believes in creating more joyful work environments and has dedicated his career to helping people have more pleasant experiences in the workplace. Bob Marshall is the author of several books on organizational psychotherapy. You can link with Bob Marshall on LinkedIn and follow Bob Marshall’s blog.

11 Apr 52min

BONUS: The End of Product Management? Three Experts Reveal the Unstoppable Rise of Product Engineers With Anton Zaides, Rafa Paez, and Max Piechota In this BONUS episode, we explore the emerging concept of the Product Engineer with three experts in the field: Anton Zaides, Rafa Paez, and Max Piechota. Together, they discuss how software engineers are evolving beyond just technical skills to embrace product thinking, business understanding, and customer empathy. This shift represents a move toward what they call "M-skilled" professionals who combine technical expertise with product sensibility to create greater impact. The Evolution of Software Engineering "The role of the software engineer is evolving to a product engineer...they understand what to build and why they are building it." Rafa Paez kicks off the conversation by sharing insights from his article on Substack, titled "The Rise of the 100x Product Engineer." He explains how the modern software engineer is taking on greater ownership of their work, focusing not just on writing code but understanding the underlying business reasons for features. This new breed of engineers thinks critically about product metrics, challenges assumptions, and takes extreme ownership of outcomes rather than just outputs. Breaking Product Management "Engineers don't really care about what they work on...but what if they did?" Anton Zaides discusses his provocative Substack article "Product Management is broken, a change is coming," where he challenges the traditional separation between engineers and product decisions. He describes the phenomenon of the "ZOOM-based product manager" who remains disconnected from both users and engineers, and contrasts this with engineers who genuinely care about the products they build. Anton argues that when engineers are invested in the product outcomes, the entire development process improves. For a podcast episode with Anton Zaides about the Product Management is broken article, listen to this Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast episode. Measuring What Matters "We need to measure the product outcome, the customer value and incentivize developers based on that." Max Piechota shares how his journey toward product engineering began through conversations with his CEO about measuring software engineer performance. His research led him to realize that traditional engineering metrics often miss what truly matters - the value delivered to customers. Max advocates for aligning developer incentives with product outcomes rather than just code output, representing a fundamental shift in how we evaluate technical contributions. Catalyzing the Transformation "What helped me change was working with those people that wanted to create products." The conversation turns to practical ways to foster this evolution toward product engineering: Max describes how exposure to product-oriented colleagues and learning about the Lean Startup methodology transformed his perspective as a developer. Anton outlines a three-step approach: helping engineers see metrics and user interactions, building business literacy, and connecting more deeply with the domain. The group discusses the importance of helping engineers understand concepts like gross margin and the AARRR framework (Acquisition, Activation, Retention, Revenue, Referral). Beyond Solutions to Problems "Often we only focus on the solution, without understanding the actual problem we are trying to solve." One crucial insight from the conversation is the need for engineers to take a step back from solution mode and better understand the underlying problems. The panel shares practical tips: Clarify how the business works and identify opportunities for improvement Be thoughtful about how developers are incentivized Connect technical decisions to financial outcomes Focus on landing page conversion and other customer-facing metrics when they're the bottleneck to growth This mindset shift enables engineers to make more strategic decisions about where to invest their technical efforts for maximum impact. About Anton Zaides, Rafa Páez, Max Piechota Anton Zaides is the founder of Manager.dev, where he shares insights about engineering management and product development. With extensive experience in both engineering and product leadership roles, Anton is passionate about bridging the gap between technical execution and product vision. You can link with Anton Zaides on Substack. For inquiries, reach him at Anton@manager.dev. Rafa Paez is a product engineering advocate who wrote the influential article "The Rise of the 100x Product Engineer." Through his work, Rafa explores how engineers can expand their impact by embracing product thinking and business understanding alongside technical skills. You can link with Rafa Paez on Substack. Find more of his work at rafapaez.com. Max Piechota is a thought leader in the engineering productivity space who has researched effective ways to measure and improve developer performance. He advocates for outcome-based metrics that focus on customer value rather than code output. You can link with Max Piechota on Substack.

10 Apr 42min

BONUS: Keeping Backlogs Lean With The Now-Next-Later-Never Roadmap Framework with Kent McDonald In this BONUS episode, we explore the art of backlog management with product management expert Kent McDonald. As someone with decades of experience in software product development, Kent shares practical strategies for keeping backlogs lean, meaningful, and focused on outcomes that truly matter. Learn how to escape the trap of bloated backlogs and implement a Now-Next-Later-Never approach that will transform your product management practice. The Problem with Bloated Backlogs "Some teams use backlogs as 'long term storage' devices." Product backlogs often become unwieldy and difficult to manage because teams view them as a permanent repository for every idea that comes along. Kent explains that this "storage mentality" is one of the primary reasons backlogs grow out of control. Another common mistake is diving in too early and splitting items before they're actually ready to be worked on, which multiplies the backlog size unnecessarily. These practices lead to confusion, lost focus, and ultimately decrease a team's ability to deliver value efficiently. The Now-Next-Later-Never Roadmap Framework "You want to group things together on roughly categories of when you will attack it." Kent walks us through the practical implementation of a Now-Next-Later-Never roadmap approach that keeps things manageable. This framework provides a simple but powerful way to organize initiatives based on their priority and timing. Instead of maintaining an endless list of requirements, teams can group work into these four buckets, making it easier to communicate priorities both internally and with stakeholders. Kent emphasizes that these roadmap items should be described in terms of outcomes rather than features, helping everyone stay focused on the value being delivered rather than specific implementations. For more on the origin of the Now-Next-Later roadmap practice, see this article by Janna Bastow. Making "Now" Work in Practice "We only split items in the 'now' column." When implementing the Now-Next-Later-Never approach, the "Now" column is where the magic happens. Kent advises: Only split items that are in the "Now" column into actionable tasks Express roadmap items in terms of outcomes or customer problems to solve Limit the number of items in the "Now" column to maintain focus List outcomes rather than detailed features to avoid having a large number of items Kent explains that the "Later" and "Never" columns serve an important purpose in setting expectations with stakeholders about what won't be worked on immediately or at all. Managing the Movement Between Roadmap Categories "Items can move back and forth, to facilitate expectation setting." The Now-Next-Later-Never roadmap isn't static. Kent provides practical advice on how to manage the flow of items between categories: Revisit the roadmap regularly, ideally monthly Consider reviewing the roadmap during sprint review sessions Use this format when communicating with stakeholders for clearer expectation setting Hold strong on the "Now" items to maintain focus and avoid constant reprioritization This approach creates a dynamic but controlled environment where priorities can evolve without creating chaos or confusion. Dealing with Backlog Bloat "Create a 'museum', a set of items you can look at, but don't look at every day." For teams struggling with already-bloated backlogs, Kent offers bold but effective advice: Create a "museum" for items you want to preserve but don't need to see daily Consider deleting your old backlog and starting fresh Begin by asking: "What are the main outcomes we're trying to achieve?" Focus on getting to a smaller set of bigger items, then sequence them appropriately These approaches help teams overcome the fear of "losing" work while refocusing on what truly matters. Maintaining a Lean Backlog "Backlog items don't age well." Kent's team maintains an impressively lean backlog of just 23 items across three brand websites. He shares the routines and guardrails that prevent backlog bloat from creeping back in: Create a filter to control what gets into the backlog in the first place Keep the Product Owner just slightly ahead of the development team Avoid the anti-pattern of trying to keep all developers busy all the time Remember that backlog items don't age well and lose relevance over time These practices ensure the team stays focused on delivering current value rather than managing an ever-growing list of aging requirements. About Kent McDonald With decades in software product development, Kent is a go-to expert in product management, and agile strategy. He is a seasoned consultant and author of three books on agility, he helps teams cut through clutter to focus on what truly matters. When not optimizing workflows, he's exploring National Parks (52/63) or grooving to some jazz tunes. You can link with Kent McDonald on LinkedIn, or follow Kent McDonaldn on Substack.

9 Apr 41min