Kayla Cinnamon and Rich Turner on DevOps on the Windows Terminal Team - Episode 54

Kayla Cinnamon and Rich Turner on DevOps on the Windows Terminal Team - Episode 54

On this week’s podcast, Kayla Cinnamon and Rich Turner are joining the show! Kayla is a Program Manager on the Windows Terminal Team and has been working for Microsoft for the last 8 years, and Rich is a Senior Program Manager, also on the Windows Terminal Team and has been with Microsoft for nearly 4 years.

Kayla and Rich are speaking with Jeffrey today to discuss how the Windows Terminal Team does DevOps. They’ll be speaking about all the recent news regarding the new Windows Terminal, the history of what it has meant to the command line on Windows (as such a critical part of the operating system), and all that they do to ship code and set up their DevOps environment! They also share information on which dependencies and environment you need to have in place to actually build it and run it locally for yourself.

Tune in to get the full scope on this really critical piece of software!

Topics of Discussion:

[:44] Be sure to visit AzureDevOps.Show for past episodes and show notes!

[:51] Jeffrey gives some announcements and lets you know where to get a hold of his book, .NET DevOps for Azure.

[2:15] About today’s guests, Kayla Cinnamon and Rich Turner.

[2:28] Jeffrey welcomes Kayla and Rich on to the podcast!

[3:23] How Kayla and Rich landed on the Windows Terminal Team and how the creation of the new Windows Terminal came about.

[13:11] What is Kayla’s tool of choice for creating wireframes and mockups?

[14:20] Rich picks their story back up from when Kayla joined the Windows Terminal Team.

[16:21] Starting with their thought process around architecture, Rich speaks about what goes on before they even put hands to keyboards.

[24:40] A word from Azure DevOps Podcast’s sponsor: Clear Measure.

[25:06] How will they be documenting this going forward?

[25:52] How do they have the code for Windows Terminal organized?

[29:46] Rich shares the GitHub URL for the new (and original) Windows Terminal and Kayla explains which dependencies and environment you need to have in order to actually build it and run it locally.

[31:52] Kayla and Rich talk about the build process and the whole flow of making changes.

[33:52] Kayla begins explaining the process piece-by-piece (from their method of branching, what testing framework is used, how many tests are in the terminal codebase to how they automate the workflow in GitHub, the workflow for members, and more).

[42:09] What’s the breadth of static analysis that’s part of the build? And what are their tools of choice for the steps involving static analysis?

[45:05] Rich gets into what’s at the end of the chain after the pull request gets accepted and merges into master (i.e. what the process looks like and what steps are there).

[48:09] What is their opinion about the viability of small text-based user interfaces?

[54:20] Rich gives his recommendations on where to get started and learn more.

[55:48] Jeffrey thanks Rich and Kayla for joining the podcast!

Mentioned in this Episode:

Azure DevOps

Clear Measure (Sponsor)

.NET DevOps for Azure, by Jeffrey Palermo

bit.ly/dotnetdevopsproject

bit.ly/dotnetdevopsbookforcommunity — Visit to get your hands on two free books to give away at conferences or events!

Windows Terminal (Preview)

Microsoft Ignite 2019

Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter Follow to stay informed about future events!

Jeffrey Palermo’s Youtube

Jeffrey’s .NET DevOps Bootcamp (Oct. 28-30th, in Lakeway, TX)

Kayla Cinnamon’s LinkedIn

Rich Turner’s LinkedIn

Figma

Microsoft Visio

GitHub.com/Microsoft/Terminal

TAEF

Turbo Vision

Chocolatey
Kayla’s Twitter: @Cinnamon_MSTF

Rich’s Twitter: @RichTurn_MS

DevBlogs.Microsoft.com/CommandLine

Want to Learn More?

Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

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Craig Loewen: Windows Subsystem for Linux - Episode 307

Craig Loewen: Windows Subsystem for Linux - Episode 307

Craig Loewen has had a love for technology ever since he was a child and has grown passionate about building things that empower people. From constructing his own quadcopter for photography to delivering developer tools that aid developers in driving technological innovation, he has done it all.   As a product manager at Microsoft, he is responsible for the Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL), a developer tool used by over 3 million developers and IT professionals. He defines the product vision and prioritizes the feature roadmap based on customer data, technical feedback, and market studies. On the personal side, he volunteers as a mentor at First Robotics, teaching high school students how to build robots and fostering a passion for STEM.   Topics of Discussion: [3:52] Craig’s career journey, starting as an intern working on Windows console and WSL features. [5:18] Common use cases for WSL — allowing developers to use Linux tools while staying on Windows. [7:43] How to get started with WSL. [8:59] Does Craig have any favorite Linux programs? [10:05] New Dev Home feature for managing WSL distros with a graphical interface. [11:36] How WSL works using virtualization technology. [13:35] Memory management in WSL — typical usage and automatic optimization. [15:22 WSL is designed primarily for development scenarios, not production environments. [20:33] Integration of local AI and small language models with WSL using VS Code AI Toolkit. [23:37] Using small language models for various tasks, including issue labeling and search functionality. [27:35] Intro to Sudo for Windows, bringing Linux-like elevated permissions to Windows commands. [28:39] What exactly is Sudo? [32:39] New enterprise features for WSL, including security controls and integration with Microsoft Defender.   Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Craig Loewen What is the Windows Subsystem for Linux Windows Subsystem for Linux, Your Enterprise Ready Multitool Zero to Hero — Develop your first app with Local LLMs on Windows   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

22 Juli 202435min

Damian Brady: GitHub Copilot - Episode 306

Damian Brady: GitHub Copilot - Episode 306

Damian Brady is a Staff Developer Advocate at GitHub. He’s a developer, speaker, and author specializing in DevOps, MLOps, developer process, and software architecture. Formerly a Cloud Advocate at Microsoft for four years, and before that, a dev at Octopus Deploy and a Microsoft MVP, he has a 25-year background in software development and consulting in a broad range of industries. In Australia, he co-organized the Brisbane .Net User Group and launched the annual DDD Brisbane conference.   Topics of Discussion: [3:45] When Damian realized he was interested in the things surrounding software development. [6:40] GitHub Copilot and AI tools to improve developer workflows. [8:50] What can people love GitHub Copilot for today? [16:06] How GitHub Copilot can assist developers without replacing them. [21:11] AI-powered code generation and bug detection. [25:15] Improving AI’s ability to complete tasks by providing context and grounding it in truth. [29:23] How the process of adding a new field works. [34:03] Using Copilot to improve code development workflows. [42:03] The “ship to learn” idea.   Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Ep 258 with Damian Brady Github Copilot Workspace Damian on Twitter Damian Brady GitHub Next CoPilot for Docs GitHub Next CoPilot for CLI Copilot Voice   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

15 Juli 202444min

Developer Experience in Windows 11 with Kayla Cinnamon - Episode 305

Developer Experience in Windows 11 with Kayla Cinnamon - Episode 305

Kayla Cinnamon is a Senior Product Manager at Microsoft working on the developer experience in Windows. This includes Dev Home and PowerToys. Kayla formerly worked on Windows Terminal and Cascadia Code, which is the font you all use inside Visual Studio. She holds a Master’s degree in Information Technology from Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute with a concentration in Human-Computer Interaction. She recently was a speaker at the recent Microsoft Build conference.   Topics of Discussion: [6:02] Kayla talks about DevHome. [7:18] Examples of having agency over your machine. [9:05] Setting up an environment in DevHome and a WinGet configuration file. [10:10] Desired state configuration. [10:47] How do we generate these files? [12:26] Using Dev Home to simplify cloning and configuring repositories. [14:22] DSC can toggle Windows settings as well. [16:26] What is Dev Drive? [20:36] How run environments help bring your Cloud and remote environments into a centralized place. [23:09] The most popular power toys. [26:07] Windows subsystem for Linux. [31:00] What’s the next power toy? [35:18] Ways for people to learn more.   Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Ep 54 with Kayla Cinnamon and Rich Turner Kayla Cinnamon GitHub Kayla Cinnamon Kayla on X Kayla on LinkedIn Developer Experience improvements in Windows Windows Terminal Github Microsoft Cascadia Microsoft PowerToys   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

8 Juli 202436min

Mitch Denny: .NET Aspire Architecture - Episode 304

Mitch Denny: .NET Aspire Architecture - Episode 304

Mitch is a Principal Software Engineer on the .NET Cloud team working on .NET Aspire and ASP.NET Core. Previously Mitch has worked on Azure services, the Azure SDK, and Azure DevOps.   Topics of Discussion: [2:46] Mitch’s career journey in the Microsoft ecosystem. [5:46] What makes it .NET Aspire vs. .NET8? [6:16] .NET Aspire focuses on seamless integration between app components. [8:18] Making sure the core of Aspire is cloud-agnostic. [10:48] Developer control plane. [11:40] How Aspire simplifies cross processes. [14:36] Using Aspire to manage dependencies in microservices applications. [18:18] Automating deployments with Azure DevOps and easy mode for .NET Aspire. [30:27] Securing container deployments. [34:39] Using Azure DevOps for cloud deployment and configuration management. [37:33] What are the best resources for people to dig in? [40:03] Azure subscriptions inside Microsoft. [43:43] They are only just getting started with Aspire, and with .NET 9 coming out in November.   Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! GitHub Mitch Denny .NET Aspire (aspire) github.com/dotnet/aspire/tree/main/playground github.com/dotnet/aspire github.com/dotnet/eShop   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

1 Juli 202446min

Étienne Tremblay: Setting up for DevOps properly - Episode 303

Étienne Tremblay: Setting up for DevOps properly - Episode 303

As the president of Tegaaa Solutions, a DevOps consulting firm, Étienne helps clients achieve optimal performance and efficiency in their software development processes. With over 30 years of IT experience and 20 years of Microsoft specialization, he has the skills and knowledge to provide tailored solutions for any DevOps challenge.   He is passionate about sharing his expertise and best practices with the IT community as a Microsoft MVP for TFS and Azure DevOps since 2006, and a regular speaker at local technical conferences and user groups since 2005. He also offers mentoring and training for organizations using Visual Studio and Team Foundation Server and designs enterprise and application architectures for projects of all sizes. His mission is to empower developers and organizations to leverage the power of DevOps and Azure to deliver high-quality software faster and better.   Topics of Discussion: [3:30] Étienne’s career progression from mechanical engineering to software development. [6:14] Yes, Étienne was TFS before it was cool. [7:14] Étienne’s interesting specialization in aerodynamics. [11:18] Not making things too complicated. [12:49] Étienne’s interest in the building process. [14:07] Building the blueprint. [17:08] GitHub vs. Azure DevOps for enterprise use. [19:49] Microsoft's struggle with GitHub's repo-centric approach in the enterprise. [24:17] The key differences in how work is tracked. [28:10 What is Entra ID? [34:08] Agility is becoming a religion, where it needs to be more of a spirit. [38:04] Kanban system for managing work in progress. [46:24] Implementing Azure DevOps for beginners, with tips and resources.   Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Etienne LinkedIn Get Started with Azure DevOps Tegaaa Solutions   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

24 Juni 202451min

Martin Hinshelwood: Migration Azure DevOps Server to the Cloud - Episode 302

Martin Hinshelwood: Migration Azure DevOps Server to the Cloud - Episode 302

Martin is a passionate agile leader with a track record of inspiring, encouraging, and igniting momentum. Featured speaker, author, and industry thought leader, Martin has a strong track record of helping organizations build a vision and execute evolutionary and revolutionary change. His deep technical knowledge, business insight, and experience drive impactful change for organizations.   Technologist turned agilist, Martin successfully helps organizations decentralize, democratize, and evolve their way of work to build extraordinary processes and drive organizational change through culture, technology, and teamwork. He’s been recognized by Microsoft as a Microsoft MVP, and he is the maintainer of the open-source Azure DevOps Migration Tools.   Topics of Discussion: [2:59] Martin’s career journey. [4:51] What Martin has learned as an MVP for 15 years. [5:59] If you’re not good at something, do it more. [6:52] Azure DevOps Migration tools. [10:11] Martin adopted platform engineering to streamline processes and reduce costs. [14:31] What you should know before using Martin’s tools. [21:55] It’s not either/or between Microsoft migration tools and Azure DevOps migration tools. [27:00] What made TFS unique. [20:03] TFGit. [30:02] The process used in your source and target, and what challenges might people expect? [31:44] Limitations of migrating data from old TFS to new Azure DevOps using Microsoft tools.   Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! GitHub Migration Tools for Azure DevOps Martin — Scrum Naked Agility Agile Actually Podcast   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

17 Juni 202447min

Scott Forsyth: Gen AI or Generative Artificial Intelligence - Episode 301

Scott Forsyth: Gen AI or Generative Artificial Intelligence - Episode 301

Scott has spent over 25 years in the IT field, working in disciplines such as systems architecture, software development, team growth, and entrepreneurship. He was a Microsoft MVP for 12 years in ASP.NET and IIS. He’s co-authored two books (IIS 7 and IIS 8 Professional), is a Pluralsight author, and has spoken at various conferences, code camps, and user groups. He’s now shifted into the AI space, building AI solutions and supporting others in their AI journey. He’s also co-founding a new startup, so he’s spending much of his time as an Entrepreneur.   Topics of Discussion: [2:15] Scott’s career path and what steered him into AI. [5:18] AI development and Scott’s journey learning about generative AI. [7:15] AI use cases, including chatbots, text-to-speech, and speech-to-text. [13:14] Flowise AI. [15:48] RAG, AKA retrieval augmented generation. [17:32] Code interpreter. [18:10] How do we know that AI is terrible at math, and what are the other things it’s not good at? [26:13] Using small language models for natural language processing. [37:13] Kitchen Co-Pilot app.   Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Flowise Retrieval-Augmented Generation (RAG) Attention is All You Need kitchen copilot zapier Make Perplexity Claude Groq The Groq LPU Inference Engine @scottforsyth Scott on LinkedIn   Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

10 Juni 202443min

Jim Leonardo: Leading Software Teams - Episode 300

Jim Leonardo: Leading Software Teams - Episode 300

Jim has been building solutions for clients in the cloud on Microsoft Azure since 2012 and building solutions in general for 20 years or more. Now, he heads up information technology for biBerk Insurance, overseeing both software development and IT operations. Most of Jim’s experience is in consulting or enterprise with a few forays into product development.   Following the path of least resistance, Jim ended up working primarily with Microsoft tools. The tool you know is the usually best tool to use, so the Microsoft path offers less and less resistance for Jim as time goes on.   On the side, Jim is working on jimsrules.com to share experience and shaky opinions about teamwork and leadership in software development.   Topics of Discussion: [3:33] There is a shortage of software leaders out there. [4:22] Jim’s career progression. [5:26] Pulling back from leadership roles. [6:54] Recognizing the need to be hands-on and fill vacuums in leadership roles. [8:35] Embracing T- or V-shaped development. [11:34] If it isn’t tested, it is broken. [16:47] Know who your customer is and what your product is. [18:10] The Innovator’s Dilemma and the importance of asking why things are the way they are. [21:21] No matter how much experience you have, there is something you can learn from someone with less experience. [23:29] What we can learn from teen YouTubers. [24:25] The 10 specific rules; Rule 77 — Minimum Viable Products (MVP) are the start, not the end of a program. [26:26] Rule #7 about microservices. [27:52] Applying Conway’s Law. [33:18] Rule 37 — Automated tests are my pillow. Rule 59 — A leader’s job is to support the team. Most org charts are upside-down. Rule 68 — No one is a zero. They either add to the team or take away from it. The question is whether those who are taking away are growing towards a positive contribution. Rule 74 — Keeping standards high ultimately creates a better work environment. Rule 75 — When you prepare to teach something, you usually learn more than your potential students.   Mentioned in this Episode: Clear Measure Way Architect Forum Software Engineer Forum Programming with Palermo — New Video Podcast! Email us at programming@palermo.net. Clear Measure, Inc. (Sponsor) .NET DevOps for Azure: A Developer’s Guide to DevOps Architecture the Right Way, by Jeffrey Palermo — Available on Amazon! Jeffrey Palermo’s Twitter — Follow to stay informed about future events! Jim Leonardo LinkedIn Jim’s Rules Jim’s Rules: The List The Innovator’s Dilemma: The Revolutionary Book That Will Change the Way You Do Business, by Clayton M. Christensen    Want to Learn More? Visit AzureDevOps.Show for show notes and additional episodes.

3 Juni 202437min

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