Hybrid Pricing and Pricing with AI with Steven Forth
Impact Pricing17 Apr 2023

Hybrid Pricing and Pricing with AI with Steven Forth

Steven Forth is Ibbaka's Co-Founder, CEO, and Partner. Ibbaka is a strategic pricing advisory firm. He was CEO of LeveragePoint Innovations Inc., a SaaS business designed to help companies create and capture value. Steven is what I consider one of the great pricing thinkers in our industry.

In this episode, Steven enlightens us about hybrid pricing models and explains why we should adopt it. He also shares why pricing people need to change the way they see AI along with the work they do in pricing.

Why you have to check out today's podcast:

  • Understand one of the unstated rules of pricing that talks about pricing power along with insights into future risk
  • Find out how artificial intelligence (AI) can help address concerns regarding the connection between pricing and predictability, and why pricing people should change how they see AI in line with pricing
  • Discover the reason on why most of us need to adopt hybrid pricing models and why the two pricing metrics in that should be independent of each other

"Most of us need to adopt hybrid pricing models, and the two pricing metrics should be independent of each other. If the two pricing metrics track each other closely, why bother having a hybrid pricing model? You need two metrics that are relatively independent of each other, and that will give you the flexibility you need to respond in a difficult economic environment."

– Steven Forth

Topics Covered:

00:42 – Steven's insights on what a hybrid pricing model looks like

02:30 – Issues on pricing model that applies credits/tokens to usage

04:44 – Predictability; whoever has the best insight into future risk has the greatest pricing power

09:37 – Pricing people vs. the recent trend: AI and how it sets prices

12:02 – The Achilles heel of value-based pricing, and the hybrid pricing practice in companies

18:09 – What real value-based pricing is about

20:52 – An optimal pricing model if you want to combine two metrics

24:31 – Confused buyers don't buy and renew

27:18 – Three reasons why calculators don't expose their logic

28:42 – Steven's pricing advice

29:42 – Connect with Steven

Key Takeaways:

"If you have enough data, you can actually get pretty good at predicting future usage." – Steven Forth

"One of the unstated rules of pricing is that whoever has the best insight into future risk has the greatest pricing power. The better we get at prediction, the more accurate we can get at pricing, and the question then becomes, who has the data to make those predictions? And I think in many cases, it's actually the vendor who has better access to data." – Steven Forth

"This whole question of predictability and pricing is going to be a key question for pricing over the next three to five years, and the artificial intelligences are going to help us to answer that question much better than we've ever been able to answer it before." – Steven Forth

"If you're optimizing value for the customer, you're optimizing the amount that they're willing to pay you, so if you just do it to optimize revenue, you'll end up shooting yourself in the foot because you'll trigger that negative feedback loop." – Steven Forth

Connect with Steven Forth:

Connect with Mark Stiving:

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Harnessing the Power of Causality for Price Optimization with Gleb Romanyuk

Harnessing the Power of Causality for Price Optimization with Gleb Romanyuk

Gleb Romanyuk is a Principal Economist at Wayfair. He leverages his Ph.D. in Economics and his extensive experience in the tech industry to develop cutting-edge solutions for competitive pricing and economic analysis. In this episode, Gleb emphasizes the underutilization of data by most companies. He recommends harnessing its power to gain insights into business performance and develop optimized pricing strategies. Why you have to check out today's podcast: Understand an economist's role in analyzing data and optimizing pricing Learn to note the distinction between forecasting and prediction versus the causal inference Test price elasticity with causality "I would encourage people to take advantage of their sales data when looking into setting prices. If you don't have it then start recording it." - Gleb Romanyuk Topics Covered: 01:56 - How he got introduced into pricing 03:46 - What is an economist's role in a company 06:04 - Distinguishing forecasting versus prediction 09:23 - Proving causality even with just observational data 15:06 - Case in point: does faster shipping improves revenue and profitability [how to go about the test and the variables used] 18:31 - What he thinks of the fact that most companies don't know how to use the data they gather 19:41 - Talking about more job opportunities for economists 20:49 - Highlighting a fascinating finding on using value pricing 23:16 - Sharing his insights on Mark's comment of not favoring taking into account price elasticity for pricing 24:46 - Gleb's impactful pricing advice Key Takeaways: "You can learn a lot about the performance of your business [by taking advantage of your sales data] and do better than just pricing by the market or pricing by the cost." - Gleb Romanyuk "Can we measure the long-term elasticity that takes into account the competitor's response? Usually we can't really get at it because it involves strategic interactions. I think what we do about it is we take market price into account. But also it's important to understand to which extent your products are differentiated from the competitors and how fierce the competition is." - Gleb Romanyuk People / Resources Mentioned: Wayfair: https://www.wayfair.com/ Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/ Connect with Gleb Romanyuk: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/glebromanyuk/ Email: gleb.romanyuk@gmail.com Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com

1 Jan 202426min

Blogcast: What Comes After Product-Market Fit

Blogcast: What Comes After Product-Market Fit

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on November 16, 2023, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/what-comes-after-product-market-fit/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com. Now, go make an impact. Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

29 Dec 20234min

Pricing Table Topics: Jack of Clubs – Don't Lower Prices

Pricing Table Topics: Jack of Clubs – Don't Lower Prices

This one is the Jack of Clubs from the Impact Pricing card deck.  There's almost never a good reason to lower prices. We've seen that a 1% price increase can lead to a 10% improvement in profitability. Well, the opposite is true too. A 1% price decrease could lead to a 10% decrease in profitability. And that's painful. As a general rule, I would never ever lead a price decrease. I'm not lowering my prices. And the only thing that would ever prompt me to, is if my competitors lowered their price first and I had to keep up with them. I had to match whatever price decrease they put out because they were taking too much of my share. But even if my competitors lowered their price, I wouldn't do an across the board price decrease. Instead, I would look at where is it that my competitors are taking my business. And can I do a price decrease just on that piece of business? Let's start thinking about price segmentation and market segmentation, understanding where that competitor is powerful, is available, and only lower prices in those places where we have to in order to keep our market share. But a great rule is just never lower your prices, unless you have to. We hope you enjoyed this example of Pricing Table Topics. What you just heard was done without a script. If you want to get better at speaking about pricing and value, grab a deck of our playing cards, pick a card, read the saying, talk for one to two minutes about what that card says. You'll become a better speaker and expert. Oh, and you can play games with these cards. If you have any questions or feedback, please email me, mark@impactpricing.com. Now, go make an impact. Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

27 Dec 20232min

A Christmas Pricing Story

A Christmas Pricing Story

There is something about pricing that really gets me excited. Maybe it was my humble beginnings. I'm sure I grew up with more than many people. But from my perspective, we didn't have enough. We needed to make every dollar go as far as it could. At Christmas time, I would get out the Sears catalog and quickly turn to the toy section. I studied every item, in the boy section of course. I would circle, and circle, and circle. I wanted so much. Christmas morning, Santa brought me a few of those toys. My parents made us three kids take turns. I hated having to wait for my brother and sister to take their turns. It was so fun ripping into a package, screaming with excitement. It was the kind of joy we rarely experience as adults. After we kids had opened the Santa packages, it was time for the adults and all of the other gifts. One by one, we would open gifts. It was slow, and tedious, and boring. This is where I got socks and underwear. Completely underappreciated at the time, but several times during this tradition, someone would get a nicer gift from Mom and Dad. Like a sweater, or a jacket. And inevitably, Mom would have a story, "Oh, I found that one at Macy's, and it was just like a more expensive one, but half the price." Or, "Oh, I saved 33% on that using green stamps." Or, "Oh, I shopped at four different stores and finally found a great deal on that one." My mom loved saving money, and she loved telling us about it even more. I didn't know it at the time, but I was learning how important price was to her. Of course, this wasn't just at Christmas. But around the tree on Christmas morning, she had an audience. She had pent up stories she couldn't share until the gift was opened. She was in her element. Maybe my love of pricing started because I wanted to understand my mom better. Who knows? But there are few things I like better than figuring out how people think about price. I am extremely grateful for what mom and dad did for us. They provided so many great memories. I loved Christmas as a child. I loved my mom who left us several years ago. And I still love pricing. This Christmas, I hope you find great deals on all of the gifts. And especially the memories that you give. Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

25 Dec 20233min

Blogcast: Software Shrinkflation

Blogcast: Software Shrinkflation

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on November 9, 2023, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/software-shrinkflation/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com. Now, go make an impact. Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

22 Dec 20233min

Pricing Table Topics: Jack of Diamonds – You're Not Charging Enough

Pricing Table Topics: Jack of Diamonds – You're Not Charging Enough

This one is the Jack of Diamonds from the Impact Pricing card deck. It's true. If you're winning them all, you're not charging enough. First, you have to believe that every buyer is different. Every buyer has a different willingness to pay. If every time you go bid on someone and you know that they have a different willingness to pay, and yet you always win, that means that most of your buyers, if not all of your buyers, were willing to pay you more. In fact, it's probably a fair assumption that every time you win a deal, you left money on the table. The buyer was probably willing to pay you a little bit more, or a lot more, than what the price was you finally settled on. What that says to me is that if we never ever lose, we're nowhere near that price point that says, Hey, we're losing the right number. So, once again, if you were to raise your price by 1% that has a 10% impact on profitability, potentially, and probably zero impact on sales because you're winning everything already. And even if you lost a couple deals, you're not going to lose 10% of your deals. And so, that's a really smart thing for you to be doing if you're after more profit, which I hope you are. And so, look at your win ratios. Are you winning every deal you go after? And if you are, raise prices. We hope you enjoyed this example of Pricing Table Topics. What you just heard was done without a script. If you want to get better at speaking about pricing and value, grab a deck of our playing cards, pick a card, read the saying, then talk for one to two minutes about what that card says. You'll become a better speaker and expert. And, you can play games. If you have any questions or feedback, please email me, mark@impactpricing.com. Now, go make an impact. Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

20 Dec 20232min

Capitalizing on Sound Economic Planning with Strategic Pricing for 2024 with Steven Forth

Capitalizing on Sound Economic Planning with Strategic Pricing for 2024 with Steven Forth

Steven Forth is Ibbaka's Co-Founder, CEO, and Partner. Ibbaka is a strategic pricing advisory firm. He was CEO of LeveragePoint Innovations Inc., a SaaS business designed to help companies create and capture value. In this episode, Steven advocates for proactive scenario planning, encouraging businesses to identify critical uncertainties and fortify their pricing strategies for the uncertainties of the future. Why you have to check out today's podcast: Understand the significance of pricing as a strategic element often overlooked in planning, and recognize its pivotal role in post-COVID economic landscapes Acknowledge the shift to a sounder economic period, where capital has a tangible cost, emphasizing the importance of net present value as a cornerstone of planning assumptions Prioritize fixing issues strategically, considering both short-term and long-term plays, and embrace scenario planning for effective pricing strategies in a dynamic environment "I think we are settling into a sounder economic period where capital has a cost, net present value matters, and we need to have that as a planning assumption." - Steven Forth Topics Covered: 01:38 - An observation about pricing being overlooked in strategic planning for 2024 and pricing being just an afterthought 04:20 - The need to strategically approach pricing in the context of the next three years post-COVID and thoughts on the monetization of generative AI 07:24 - Important thoughts on what kind of impact will AI have in businesses in the years ahead in comparison to what blockchain years ago 09:32 - From low interest rates to normal range, the importance of capital costs and net present value as part of planning assumptions. 13:05 - The need to take realistic steps to investments in AI, impact of non-zero interest rates on capital costs, the stabilization of buying behaviors into 2024 and how all these are considered in pricing planning in 2024 18:47 - Prioritizing what needs to be fixed first rather than fixing all at once and risk messing up everything 19:52 - How often should one conduct a pricing strategy 22:25 -Two key things in mind when planning for 2024: first establish baselines and trends, then aligning pricing with the overall strategic goals of the company 27:13 - What it means to have a portfolio point of view when making pricing planning and how to implement a faster cadence to reach your pricing goals 30:09 - Attributing business results to pricing changes and introducing the concept of causal analysis Key Takeaways: "I think we are settling into a sounder economic period where capital has a cost, net present value matters and we need to have that as a planning assumption." - Steven Forth "You can't really do strategic planning if you don't understand where you are and how you got there." - Steven Forth "I would encourage people to at least consider looking at scenario planning where you plan for more than one scenario. You identify critical uncertainties and you plan for each of the critical uncertainties. That approach would make a lot of sense for pricing." - Steven Forth People / Resources Mentioned: Judea Pearl: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judea_Pearl The Book of Why: The New Science of Cause and Effect: https://www.amazon.com/Book-Why-Science-Cause-Effect/dp/046509760X Connect with Steven Forth: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenforth/ Email: steven@ibbaka.com Connect with Mark Stiving: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/ Email: mark@impactpricing.com

18 Dec 202333min

Blogcast: System 1 and System 2 Value

Blogcast: System 1 and System 2 Value

This is an Impact Pricing Blog published on November 2, 2023, turned into an audio podcast so you can listen on the go. Read Full Article Here: https://impactpricing.com/blog/system-1-and-system-2-value/ If you have any feedback, definitely send it. You can reach us at mark@impactpricing.com. Now, go make an impact. Connect with Mark Stiving: Email: mark@impactpricing.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stiving/

15 Dec 20233min

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