How To Get Out Of Your Head: Joseph Goldstein and Sam Harris on Nirvana, Non-Clinging, Non-Duality, and the Best Way to Meditate

How To Get Out Of Your Head: Joseph Goldstein and Sam Harris on Nirvana, Non-Clinging, Non-Duality, and the Best Way to Meditate

Which is the best path to freedom?

Joseph Goldstein is a cofounder of the Insight Meditation Society and the Barre Center for Buddhist Studies, both in Barre, Massachusetts. He is the author of many books including, most recently, Dreamscapes of the Mind.

Sam Harris is a neuroscientist, author, podcaster and the proprietor of the Waking Up app.

In this episode we talk about:

  • What the term "non-duality" means — and why it matters to ordinary meditators.
  • The multiple meanings of non-duality across Buddhist traditions (Theravāda, Mahāyāna, Vajrayāna).
  • How different traditions (and even different teachers within them) define samsara and nirvana.
  • The non-duality of the observer and observed — and how that insight can alleviate suffering.
  • Whether understanding non-duality is practically relevant for reducing stress and emotional reactivity.
  • The evolution of Buddhist teachings over time and how interpretations differ across countries.
  • Sam's argument that the non-dual view can be directly experienced in everyday consciousness — and that realizing it ends unnecessary suffering.
  • Joseph's emphasis on non-duality as one path among many toward the ultimate goal: the end of suffering.
  • How metaphysics and direct experience intersect, and whether doctrinal differences are "self-confirming."
  • The concept of "non-clinging" as the real heart of Buddhist practice — and how it relates to non-dual awareness.

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Sam Harris, 'Waking Up' Podcast Host, Neuroscientist

Sam Harris, 'Waking Up' Podcast Host, Neuroscientist

Sam Harris, who has no relation to our beloved host, is a scientist, a controversial skeptic and the author of several New York Times bestsellers, including "The End of Faith," "The Moral Landscape" and "Waking Up" (also the title of his popular podcast). During our interview, Harris hosts a clinic on deconstructing "consciousness and its contents" with the help of meditation, and recognizing how getting lost in thought can be tied to suffering.

12 Apr 20171h 32min

Clair Brown, Economist, Author of 'Buddhist Economics'

Clair Brown, Economist, Author of 'Buddhist Economics'

Clair Brown, an economics professor at UC-Berkeley and a Tibetan Buddhist, was teaching an introductory course when she asked herself, "How would Buddha teach Econ One?" Brown went on to write the book, "Buddhist Economics: An Enlightened Approach to the Dismal Science," and advocates for a more mindful approach to how we contribute to society, for example, that as consumers, we should work to simplify our lives by focusing on what matters most to us, buying less and reducing our carbon footprint.

5 Apr 201741min

Jewel, Grammy-Nominated Singer-Songwriter, Actress (Bonus!)

Jewel, Grammy-Nominated Singer-Songwriter, Actress (Bonus!)

Jewel, whose poetic songs about relationships and heartache dominated the airwaves in the '90s, used writing as an outlet to deal with anxiety through a tough childhood and later, homelessness. She began looking for ways to "re-wire" her brain, change her life for the better, and came to Mindfulness. The Grammy-nominated recording artist wrote a memoir, "Never Broken: Songs Are Only Half the Story," and stars in the upcoming Hallmark movie, "Framed for Murder: A Fixer-Upper Mystery," airing Sunday, April 2.

31 Mars 201731min

Jerry Colonna, 'CEO Whisperer' and Reboot.io Founder

Jerry Colonna, 'CEO Whisperer' and Reboot.io Founder

Jerry Colonna was working as a venture capitalist in New York City during the 9/11 terrorist attacks, and as he walked by wreckage of the World Trade Center towers, he said he felt like his "world was falling apart." Colonna went on to become a practicing Buddhist and in 2014 he founded Reboot.io, a CEO-coaching company where he serves as a certified professional coach for the heads of some of the most dynamic start-ups in the United States.

29 Mars 201759min

Colin Beavan, the 'No Impact Man'

Colin Beavan, the 'No Impact Man'

In his famous book and documentary film project, "No Impact Man," Colin Beavan, a senior Dharma teacher in the Zen tradition, chronicled a year of his life as he tried to have minimal impact on the environment while living in the bustling metropolis of New York City. He followed it up with a book called, "How to Be Alive: A Guide to the Kind of Happiness that Helps the World," a sort of twist on the self-help genre that he calls "each other help."

22 Mars 201743min

Profs. Holly Richardson & Matt Jarman, Virginia Military Institute

Profs. Holly Richardson & Matt Jarman, Virginia Military Institute

Virginia Military Institute, a military college in Lexington, Virginia, was another stop on the cross-country meditation tour, where our host Dan Harris and meditation teacher Jeff Warren spoke to Profs. Holly Richardson and Matt Jarman, as well as a few cadets who have taken their classes. Jarman, a psychology professor who leads a "Modern Warriorship" course with meditation, and Richardson, a physical education professor who teaches a mindfulness class, both talk about how they teach cadets in a military environment that meditation can help them be more mentally efficient.

15 Mars 201743min

Sylvia Moir, Tempe, Arizona, Police Chief

Sylvia Moir, Tempe, Arizona, Police Chief

During their cross-county meditation bus tour in January, our host Dan Harris and meditation teacher Jeff Warren stopped in Tempe, Arizona, to talk with Sylvia Moir, who has been the head of the Tempe Police Department for the past year. Chief Moir says her mindfulness practice has not only helped her during high-stress police calls but also in how she engages with and leads her fellow officers.

8 Mars 201746min

Shinzen Young, Meditation Teacher

Shinzen Young, Meditation Teacher

Shinzen Young first became fascinated with Asian culture as a Jewish teenager growing up in Los Angeles in the 1950s. Now a renowned meditation teacher, Shinzen is deeply involved in scientific research into what meditation does for the brain and has a new book out called "The Science of Enlightenment."

1 Mars 20171h 34min

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