#209 – Rose Chan Loui on OpenAI’s gambit to ditch its nonprofit
80,000 Hours Podcast27 Marras 2024

#209 – Rose Chan Loui on OpenAI’s gambit to ditch its nonprofit

One OpenAI critic calls it “the theft of at least the millennium and quite possibly all of human history.” Are they right?

Back in 2015 OpenAI was but a humble nonprofit. That nonprofit started a for-profit, OpenAI LLC, but made sure to retain ownership and control. But that for-profit, having become a tech giant with vast staffing and investment, has grown tired of its shackles and wants to change the deal.

Facing off against it stand eight out-gunned and out-numbered part-time volunteers. Can they hope to defend the nonprofit’s interests against the overwhelming profit motives arrayed against them?

That’s the question host Rob Wiblin puts to nonprofit legal expert Rose Chan Loui of UCLA, who concludes that with a “heroic effort” and a little help from some friendly state attorneys general, they might just stand a chance.

Links to learn more, highlights, video, and full transcript.

As Rose lays out, on paper OpenAI is controlled by a nonprofit board that:

  • Can fire the CEO.
  • Would receive all the profits after the point OpenAI makes 100x returns on investment.
  • Is legally bound to do whatever it can to pursue its charitable purpose: “to build artificial general intelligence that benefits humanity.”

But that control is a problem for OpenAI the for-profit and its CEO Sam Altman — all the more so after the board concluded back in November 2023 that it couldn’t trust Altman and attempted to fire him (although those board members were ultimately ousted themselves after failing to adequately explain their rationale).

Nonprofit control makes it harder to attract investors, who don’t want a board stepping in just because they think what the company is doing is bad for humanity. And OpenAI the business is thirsty for as many investors as possible, because it wants to beat competitors and train the first truly general AI — able to do every job humans currently do — which is expected to cost hundreds of billions of dollars.

So, Rose explains, they plan to buy the nonprofit out. In exchange for giving up its windfall profits and the ability to fire the CEO or direct the company’s actions, the board will become minority shareholders with reduced voting rights, and presumably transform into a normal grantmaking foundation instead.

Is this a massive bait-and-switch? A case of the tail not only wagging the dog, but grabbing a scalpel and neutering it?

OpenAI repeatedly committed to California, Delaware, the US federal government, founding staff, and the general public that its resources would be used for its charitable mission and it could be trusted because of nonprofit control. Meanwhile, the divergence in interests couldn’t be more stark: every dollar the for-profit keeps from its nonprofit parent is another dollar it could invest in AGI and ultimately return to investors and staff.

Chapters:

  • Cold open (00:00:00)
  • What's coming up (00:00:50)
  • Who is Rose Chan Loui? (00:03:11)
  • How OpenAI carefully chose a complex nonprofit structure (00:04:17)
  • OpenAI's new plan to become a for-profit (00:11:47)
  • The nonprofit board is out-resourced and in a tough spot (00:14:38)
  • Who could be cheated in a bad conversion to a for-profit? (00:17:11)
  • Is this a unique case? (00:27:24)
  • Is control of OpenAI 'priceless' to the nonprofit in pursuit of its mission? (00:28:58)
  • The crazy difficulty of valuing the profits OpenAI might make (00:35:21)
  • Control of OpenAI is independently incredibly valuable and requires compensation (00:41:22)
  • It's very important the nonprofit get cash and not just equity (and few are talking about it) (00:51:37)
  • Is it a farce to call this an "arm's-length transaction"? (01:03:50)
  • How the nonprofit board can best play their hand (01:09:04)
  • Who can mount a court challenge and how that would work (01:15:41)
  • Rob's outro (01:21:25)

Producer: Keiran Harris
Audio engineering by Ben Cordell, Milo McGuire, Simon Monsour, and Dominic Armstrong
Video editing: Simon Monsour
Transcriptions: Katy Moore

Jaksot(321)

#95 – Kelly Wanser on whether to deliberately intervene in the climate

#95 – Kelly Wanser on whether to deliberately intervene in the climate

How long do you think it’ll be before we’re able to bend the weather to our will? A massive rainmaking program in China, efforts to seed new oases in the Arabian peninsula, or chemically induce snow f...

26 Maalis 20211h 24min

#94 – Ezra Klein on aligning journalism, politics, and what matters most

#94 – Ezra Klein on aligning journalism, politics, and what matters most

How many words in U.S. newspapers have been spilled on tax policy in the past five years? And how many words on CRISPR? Or meat alternatives? Or how AI may soon automate the majority of jobs? When p...

20 Maalis 20211h 45min

#93 – Andy Weber on rendering bioweapons obsolete & ending the new nuclear arms race

#93 – Andy Weber on rendering bioweapons obsolete & ending the new nuclear arms race

COVID-19 has provided a vivid reminder of the power of biological threats. But the threat doesn't come from natural sources alone. Weaponized contagious diseases — which were abandoned by the United S...

12 Maalis 20211h 54min

#92 – Brian Christian on the alignment problem

#92 – Brian Christian on the alignment problem

Brian Christian is a bestselling author with a particular knack for accurately communicating difficult or technical ideas from both mathematics and computer science. Listeners loved our episode abo...

5 Maalis 20212h 55min

#91 – Lewis Bollard on big wins against factory farming and how they happened

#91 – Lewis Bollard on big wins against factory farming and how they happened

I suspect today's guest, Lewis Bollard, might be the single best person in the world to interview to get an overview of all the methods that might be effective for putting an end to factory farming an...

15 Helmi 20212h 33min

Rob Wiblin on how he ended up the way he is

Rob Wiblin on how he ended up the way he is

This is a crosspost of an episode of the Eureka Podcast. The interviewer is Misha Saul, a childhood friend of Rob's, who he has known for over 20 years. While it's not an episode of our own show, we...

3 Helmi 20211h 57min

#90 – Ajeya Cotra on worldview diversification and how big the future could be

#90 – Ajeya Cotra on worldview diversification and how big the future could be

You wake up in a mysterious box, and hear the booming voice of God: “I just flipped a coin. If it came up heads, I made ten boxes, labeled 1 through 10 — each of which has a human in it. If it ca...

21 Tammi 20212h 59min

Rob Wiblin on self-improvement and research ethics

Rob Wiblin on self-improvement and research ethics

This is a crosspost of an episode of the Clearer Thinking Podcast: 022: Self-Improvement and Research Ethics with Rob Wiblin. Rob chats with Spencer Greenberg, who has been an audience favourite in...

13 Tammi 20212h 30min

Suosittua kategoriassa Koulutus

rss-murhan-anatomia
psykopodiaa-podcast
voi-hyvin-meditaatiot-2
rss-narsisti
rss-liian-kuuma-peruna
rss-vapaudu-voimaasi
dear-ladies
aamukahvilla
psykologia
leveli
kesken
ihminen-tavattavissa-tommy-hellsten-instituutti
rss-uskonto-on-tylsaa
rss-duodecim-lehti
rss-valo-minussa-2
rahapuhetta
adhd-podi
rss-tietoinen-yhteys-podcast-2
rss-hereilla
rss-xamk-podcast