The Nugget Climbing Podcast

Will Anglin is an expert boulderer and the founder of Tension Climbing. I love the way this guy thinks, and there are many nuggets in this episode. We talked about the key principles of climbing hard, the most common confusion points about training for climbing, why we should treat climbing like baseball, the number one thing all climbers should do, the evolution of Tension, why it took 10+ years to develop the Tension Board 2 (TB2), why every detail matters when building a new product, and much more!Become a Patron - 7 Day Free Trial!patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing Check out Crimpd!crimpd.comOr download the Crimpd app!Check out Wonderful Pistachios!WonderfulPistachios.com to learn more!Check out Rhino Skin Solutions!rhinoskinsolutions.comUse code “NUGGET” at checkout for 20% off your next order!The Nugget is sponsored by BetterHelp!betterhelp.com/NUGGETUse this link for 10% off your first month!Check out Green Chef!greenchef.com/nugget250Use code "nugget250" at checkout for $250 off!We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:Michael Roy, Craig Lee, Mark and Julie Calhoun, Yinan Liu, Zach Emery, and Alex PlutaShow Notes:  thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/will-anglinNuggets:0:00:00 – Intro/Ads0:05:06 – Eggs and espresso0:06:55 – Focus on protein to save mental energy0:09:49 – Cat litter0:10:56 – Two main topics I want to cover with Will0:13:06 – An email I sent Will in 2015, and why I transitioned away from the Anderson brothers’ way of training0:17:49 – Will’s early climbing, youth competitions, wanting to be strong, and getting into training0:26:28 – Will’s first time deep water soloing at Summersville Lake0:27:57 – Trad climbing in the Black Canyon0:31:26 – Pivoting to bouldering, and the bouldering vs. sport climbing in Colorado0:35:56 – Why Will has spent more time developing boulders than sport climbs, and why people chip routes0:40:02 – Chipping in bouldering, and suspending your disbelief0:47:09 – Why the “best way to train” is not a useful concept0:54:26 – Why it doesn’t make sense to copy the pros0:55:48 – The baseball analogy0:59:04 – Why your hangboarding should change over the course of your climbing career1:00:13 – Working on skills at sub-maximal intensity, and learning to connect training with rock climbing skill development1:03:44 – “Keep the goal the goal.” - Dan John1:05:19 – The best climbers are the most adaptable climbers1:09:01 – Will’s ‘Hangboarding: A Way’ article, and the most common confusion points and questions that Will gets about advice he’s given in the past1:10:59 – Why you shouldn’t take time away from your climbing time to do more strength training1:14:48 – It’s normal to fail on climbs that are easier than your max redpoint grade1:17:04 – Why I started seeking out more “basic” power climbs, and how modern training is affecting outdoor bouldering grades1:19:37 – How styles and grades evolve over time1:24:15 – “The concept of a well-rounded climber moves.”1:25:52 – Why people used to say Joe’s Valley is soft, and how gym climbing shapes our conception of climbing1:30:35 – Conflating doability with difficulty, and finding the beta that fits you1:33:51 – Why Will feels like he learned how to climb in Gunnison, and the value of climbing on different rock types1:35:54 – Discovering that hard climbs can be fun, and wow traveling has allowed me to discover what I actually enjoy most in climbing1:39:39 – Why grades tend to become more confusing as you progress, and the weirdness at the top-level grades1:43:09 – The unconstrained nature of climbing, and box checking1:49:07 – “It’s not about the exercise.”1:54:00 – “The number one thing is go rock climbing.”2:00:54 – How not all climbing styles are created equal in the way they develop you as a climber, and why I’m so impressed with the Tension Board 22:04:43 – Our culture’s obsession with climbing, and validating climbing just because it’s fun2:07:23 – The Climbing Community is Imaginary2:08:49 – There are many valid ways to “be a climber”2:11:14 – How Will feels about climbing after building Tension, having no breaks from it, and creating separation between his personal climbing and his business2:13:59 – One of Will’s main priorities with Tension, having a life outside of Tension and climbing, playing musical instruments, having carpal tunnel, and building guitars2:20:12 – The evolution of Tension, and how the company started2:28:56 – How the Flash Board came to be2:30:49 – More about the development of the Tension Board 22:36:54 – Designing the holds for the TB2, and why the design process should start with the raw materials2:42:24 – Getting benighted in the Black Canyon2:48:31 – “Everything fucking matters.”2:50:29 – Take the time to build a solid foundation2:52:48 – Wrap up

13 Nov 20232h 55min

Mat Wright has quickly established himself as one of the best trad climbers in Britain and is a world-class all-rounder having climbed E11, 5.14c, and V15. We talked about his humble beginnings in low-income government housing, teaching himself how to rope solo as a teenager, reaching V13 and 5.14c in his first three years of climbing, pivoting to hardcore trad climbing, his upcoming film in the Brit Rock Film Tour, and much more!Get Your Tickets for Brit Rock! (Streaming Nov 9-13)britrockfilmtour.comBecome a Patron - 7 Day Free Trial!patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing Check out PhysiVantage!physivantage.com (link includes 15% off coupon)Use code "NUGGET15" at checkout for 15% off your next order!Check out Rhino Skin Solutions!rhinoskinsolutions.comUse code “NUGGET” at checkout for 20% off your next order!Check out Rumpl!rumpl.com/nuggetUse code "NUGGET" at checkout for 10% off your first order!Check out Wonderful Pistachios!WonderfulPistachios.com to learn more!Check out AG1!drinkAG1.com/NUGGETUse this link to get a free year's supply of vitamin D + 5 travel packs!We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:Michael Roy, Craig Lee, Mark and Julie Calhoun, Yinan Liu, Zach Emery, and Alex PlutaShow Notes:  thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/mat-wrightNuggets:0:00:00 – Intro/Ads0:05:35 – Why Mat wears sunglasses when he climbs0:07:02 – Mat’s difficult upbringing, and growing up in a council estate (low-income government housing)0:11:41 – Meeting his dad at 13 and moving in with him, and how Mat got himself into rock climbing0:15:47 – Building a board in his mom’s back garden, and sending 8c+ and 8B (5.14c and V13) within his first 3 years of climbing0:17:21 – What climbing brought to Mat’s life0:19:51 – Neil Gresham’s masterclass videos, and setting his eyes on Hubble0:23:13 – Sending Hubble, and the negative side of punching the clock on projects0:29:39 – Being optimistic, and why Mat resonates with hard scary trad climbing0:32:39 – The line between optimism vs. recklessness0:35:17 – How Mat “caught up” with his education, and the appeal of climbing for someone with a busy mind0:39:39 – Mat’s partner Anna Taylor, and her role in The House of the Gods film (I said Argentina but it was in Venezuela)0:41:37 – Coasteering with Anna0:45:40 – Wildlife, nerding out, and how he and Anna relax0:47:28 – Living in a van, fingerboarding, and going with the flow with his climbing0:49:25 – Sprinting toward a goal, and spending 60-70% of his time chilling0:54:34 – What Mat’s training looked like early on, how it’s evolved over time, and addressing specific weaknesses0:57:34 – Understanding your climbing pace, and the dance of sport climbing1:00:24 – How Mat guides his clients with their climbing pace1:06:19 – Our tendance to overthink things, and not believe in ourselves1:08:29 – The power of specific goals, and asking yourself what you really want to get out of climbing1:12:35 – Balancing short-term and long-term goals1:16:51 – How to get coaching from Mat1:18:21 – Climbing his first V15 shortly after Hubble, and pivoting to trad and sending Lexicon E111:23:03 – The reaction to him sending Lexicon1:26:27 – Feeling desensitized to exposure, and early free soloing1:28:24 – The effect that online comments have on real people1:32:31 – Our brains’ negative bias, and trolling as an outlet for frustration1:35:21 – Anna’s harassment, and Mat’s controversial reputation1:40:29 – What happens when you respond to negative comments with kindness1:42:36 – Stepping into a protective role for his partner, and losing his sponsors1:44:29 – Mat as a Berghaus athlete1:49:19 – Mat’s film ‘Hard Git’ in the upcoming Brit Rock Film Tour1:55:49 – A deep dive into Mat’s FA of Magical Thinking E10, and finding flow on the send2:01:13 – Mat’s FA of Black Thistle E10, and converting E grades to the American YDS grades2:04:04 – The animalistic nature of trad, why the Brits don’t bolt everything, and the American healthcare system2:07:35 – Challenge vs. difficulty2:10:26 – James Pearson as the best trad climber in the world, and Mat’s kinship to Dave MacLeod2:12:25 – Mat and I each talk about our experiences trying the keto diet2:16:18 – I recap my story with disordered eating and recovery, and Mat describes his experience with burnout after Hubble2:22:05 – What happened with Rhapsody, and his thoughts on returning2:27:21 – Mat’s rope solo setup2:29:43 – Go-to music2:30:15 – Mat’s dream climbing expedition, the adventure and fun of climbing, and sending Gaia E82:34:46 – Think more about yourself and less about other people2:35:44 – Cycle touring, and Mat’s thoughts on taking long breaks from climbing2:42:36 – Where to connect with Mat, and details about the upcoming Brit Rock Film Tour

6 Nov 20232h 48min

Alex Biale is an elite boulderer based in CO. We talked about his family legacy of bootlegging wine in Napa Valley, how he got into climbing, his legendary training with Jon Glassberg, pushing himself to the breaking point to send V14, seriously injuring his knee, working with Ollie Torr to overhaul his style and become stronger than ever, the keys to a balanced and happy life, and much more!Become a Patron - 7 Day Free Trial!patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing Check out Rhino Skin Solutions!rhinoskinsolutions.comUse code “NUGGET” at checkout for 20% off your next order!Check out Crimpd!crimpd.comOr download the Crimpd app!Check out Wonderful Pistachios!WonderfulPistachios.com to learn more!Check out Rumpl!rumpl.com/nuggetUse code "NUGGET" at checkout for 10% off your first order!Check out PhysiVantage!physivantage.com (link includes 15% off coupon)Use code "NUGGET15" at checkout for 15% off your next order!We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:Michael Roy, Craig Lee, Mark and Julie Calhoun, Yinan Liu, Zach Emery, and Alex PlutaShow Notes:  thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/alex-bialeNuggets:0:00:00 – Intro/Ads0:05:34 – Steak and wine0:06:16 – Alex’s connection to the Jon Glassberg and Ollie Torr episodes0:07:37 – Alex’s upbringing in Napa, his family legacy of bootlegging wine, and the origin story of Black Chicken0:12:21 – Working in the vineyard as a kid, and growing up surrounded by family0:15:36 – Alex’s dad, and doing family backpacking trips to Tahoe0:20:02 – Getting into climbing0:21:59 – Parallels to the Josh Champion episode, looking up to CA climbers, getting into highballing, and putting V13 and V1 4 on a pedestal0:31:01 – Training with Jon Glassberg0:35:11 – Sending Mind to Motion V14, breaking from the training, and feeling lost after achieving his goal0:39:59 – Climbing classic V8s in Leavenworth, rediscovering his love for climbing, and adopting a beginners mindset0:47:58 – History, aesthetics, the amount of climbing in CO, and redefining challenge0:51:56 – Desiring to become a well-rounded climber0:58:23 – What gets people stuck, and being honest about what you want from climbing1:03:20 – Combining strengths and weaknesses1:09:32 – The perfect storm of training with Jon1:13:20 – Playing the long game, and drawing inspiration from Martin Keller1:17:33 – Why you shouldn’t train like a pro climber (unless you’re a pro climber)1:22:50 – The advice Alex got from Will Anglin, and climbing with rules1:34:42 – Why Alex hired Ollie Torr to coach him1:45:43 – What’s different about training with Ollie on a principle level1:52:24 – Injurying his knee, and transforming his climbing style2:00:26 – The keys to staying consistent with climbing and training, and the value of a spray wall2:16:12 – The keys to staying on top of things at work, and Alex’s business ventures2:23:47 – Carrying a load, hitting rock bottom, and adding value2:31:26 – The keys to maintaining a healthy relationship2:37:59 – Wrap up, and very kind words from Alex about the podcast

30 Okt 20232h 44min

Jesse Firestone is back on the podcast! We talked about his injury this spring and finding silver linings, why he focused more on weight training than climbing this summer, shifting his priorities to spending more time on projects, biggest lessons from the past three years of coaching, Adam Ondra’s hip flexibility, how to become more flexible through climbing, why visualization is an excellent use of your time, and much more!The Nugget is sponsored by BetterHelp!betterhelp.com/NUGGETUse this link for 10% off your first month!Check out Wonderful Pistachios!WonderfulPistachios.com to learn more!Check out Rhino Skin Solutions!rhinoskinsolutions.comUse code “NUGGET” at checkout for 20% off your next order!Check out Rumpl!rumpl.com/nuggetUse code "NUGGET" at checkout for 10% off your first order!Check out Green Chef!greenchef.com/60nuggetUse code "60NUGGET" at checkout for 60% off plus free shipping!We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:Michael Roy, Craig Lee, Mark and Julie Calhoun, Yinan Liu, and Zach EmerySupport on Patreon:  patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing Show Notes:  thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/jesse-firestone-returnsNuggets:0:00:00 – Intro/Ads0:05:53 – Jesse’s Winter and Spring season, his wrist injury, and his trip to Fontainebleau0:11:53 – Losing muscle, falling into our own pitfalls, and a sales pitch for having a coach0:15:45 – Stoic philosophy, finding the silver lining, and why Jesse climbed a lot less than usual over the summer0:18:49  – Being stubborn about rock climbing, and plans to balance that with more weight lifting0:20:32 – Why Jesse is moving toward less volume and more projecting0:25:31 – Work capacity0:29:48 – My summer trip, and what I would do the same vs differently to prepare next time0:34:22 – Chasing the highs, and the reset of a bad injury0:37:29 – Being content with not sending my project in Rocklands, and Jesse and I talk about struggling to find inspiration there0:43:53 – What I’ve realized about active rest days in Rocklands0:47:57 – Why Jesse didn’t set any goals on paper in 20230:49:57 – Thai0:51:25 – How Jesse’s coaching business has evolved, and how he uses Instagram0:56:03 – “A good coach knows when to be a window and when to be a mirror.”0:56:33 – Lessons from Jesse’s first few years of coaching1:05:23 – How coaching has led him to being a more compassionate person1:08:43 – Summary of coaching lessons1:09:33 – Intent vs. content of training1:12:55 – Adam Ondra’s hip flexibility, writing a book, and how to improve flexibility through climbing1:22:10 – Having a positive attitude about your flexibility1:29:55 – 3 benefits of visualization for climbers1:39:53 – The nuts and bolts of visualization1:46:47 – Jesse puts his coach hat on and encourages me to climb faster1:51:47 – Visualization for onsighting, and Adam Ondra’s onsight of Just Do It1:54:20 – Wrap up

24 Okt 20231h 57min

Josh Champion is an MD and elite boulderer based in Portland, Oregon. Josh and I hung out in 2017 during my infamous Bishop trip. Since then he moved to Colorado for residency, got even stronger, and then quit climbing shortly after sending his first three V13s. We talked about why he quit for three years, how he improved his relationship with climbing, helpful books, building Just Beta, and much more!The Nugget is brought to you by BetterHelp!betterhelp.com/NUGGETUse this link for 10% off your first month!Check out Chalk Cartel!chalkcartel.comUse code "NUGGET" at checkout for 20% off your next order!Check out Crimpd!crimpd.comOr download the Crimpd app!Check out AG1!drinkAG1.com/NUGGETUse this link to get a free year's supply of vitamin D + 5 travel packs!Check out Wonderful Pistachios!WonderfulPistachios.com to learn more!We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:Michael Roy, Craig Lee, Mark and Julie Calhoun, Yinan Liu, and Zach EmerySupport on Patreon:  patreon.com/thenuggetclimbing Show Notes:  thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/josh-championNuggets:0:00:00 – Intro/Ads0:03:51 – Intermittent fasting, Josh’s “salad”, and diet soda in the morning0:07:15 – Reminiscing about the 2017 Bishop trip, Josh’s send of Mandala, and clarifying the timing of my journey with disordered eating0:12:07 – What happened to Josh after the 2017 trip, and moving to Colorado for residency0:17:55 – How the pandemic affected his work, and sending his first three V13s0:19:28 – Putting V13 on a pedestal0:23:51 – Expectations vs reality of achieving a goal0:26:21 – Delayed gratification vs learning how to enjoy the process0:27:52 – Josh and I explore what drives us to pursue goals, and pure inspiration vs seeking approval from others0:33:41 – Why Josh quit climbing0:36:16 – What it felt like to quit, filling the gap, and creating BetaCache0:42:35 – Finding a new physical outlet, and his mindset shift after being away from climbing0:47:27 – Discovering who you are without climbing0:49:34 – Not missing climbing, Josh’s antagonistic climbing friendship, and being free from comparison0:52:48 – What brought him back to climbing0:55:41 – Working on his relationship with climbing1:01:14 – The Zen of Climbing1:07:22 – Inner balance and friction1:09:48 – Feeling cautious but optimistic, and shifting the emphasis1:11:52 – Trying Woods Climb in Red Rocks, and plans for his upcoming trip to Moe’s Valley1:16:34 – Meeting Jonathan Siegrist, starting to climb because we enjoyed it, and when that shifted for Josh1:23:43 – Seeking challenge is healthy until you start putting numbers on it1:27:44 – Treating climbing like a martial art or a craft1:30:28 – Finding satisfaction and accomplishment in the process1:31:44 – Josh’s thoughts about trying hard projects in the future1:34:29 – Letting go of needing to check climbs off the list1:37:27 – What inner work looks like, and Josh’s claim to fame1:41:31 – The value of learning lessons the hard way1:44:19 – Realizing you are not alone1:45:54 – Why Josh created BetaCache, and the updated version JustBeta.net

16 Okt 20231h 55min

This full episode is available for Patrons right now! Martin Keller is back on the podcast! We met up in Magic Wood over the summer and recorded another great conversation. We talked about his send of Gateway V16/8C+, using video review to make breakthroughs, why you shouldn’t spend 50+ days on a project as he does, gaining 13 kgs to send his hardest boulder, his simple training routine, how he is still getting stronger at 45, and Martin gave me feedback and advice on my climbing.Become a Patron to get access to the full episode! And support the podcast! *The full version is 1:54:13.*Watch the uncut video interview here!patreon.com/thenuggetclimbingMartin's Original Episode:EP 109: Martin Keller

12 Okt 20231h 10min

Lily Kral is the owner of Boardworks in Bend, Oregon. We talked about her childhood and her mother’s struggle with addiction, being hospitalized for an eating disorder, exotic dancing her way through college, finding an identity as a strong climber, why she decided to build a board climbing gym, biggest challenges, burning the candle at both ends, being a work in progress, training for 5.14 at Smith Rock, and much more!Listen to the Patron Show on Spotify!Check out PhysiVantage!physivantage.com (link includes 15% off coupon)Use code "NUGGET15" at checkout for 15% off your next order!Check out Rhino Skin Solutions!rhinoskinsolutions.comUse code “NUGGET” at checkout for 20% off your next order!And check out EP 22 with Justin Brown to learn more about how to use Rhino products!Check out Rocky Talkie!RockyTalkie.com/NuggetUse this link to get 10% off your first order of backcountry radios!Check out Wonderful Pistachios!WonderfulPistachios.com to learn more!We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:Leo Franchi, Michael Roy, David Lahaie, Robert Freehill, Jeremiah Johnson, Scott Donahue, Eli Conlee, Skyler Maxwell, Craig Lee, Mark and Julie Calhoun, Yinan Liu, Renzollama, Zach Emery, and Brandt MickolasBecome a Patron:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbingShow Notes:  thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/lily-kralNuggets:0:04:13 – Lily sets the scene0:06:46 – Minimalist vs. mooch0:08:50 – Lily’s childhood, her mom’s struggle with addiction, and seeking control0:14:48 – Hussling vegetable at 10 years old0:16:55 – Feeling unpopular in high school, wanting external validation, and being hospitalized for an eating disorder0:21:17 – Exotic dancing in college0:26:20 – The stigma around exotic dancing, and more about Lily’s experience in that world0:33:46 – Type 1 vs type 2 thinking0:36:15 – Coming out of retirement for a weekend0:38:08 – Her time as a full-time route setter, burning the candle at both ends, and existing in fight or flight0:40:53 – Moving to LA to become a head route setter0:43:44 – Issues with substances, and how Lily was able to stay sober as a dancer0:46:25 – Building Boardworks, and where the idea came from0:52:16 – Why she chose Bend for her first location0:57:14 – The Boardworks model, and what makes it special and unique1:06:14 – The biggest challenges of opening and running a gym1:11:02 – Delegation, and letting go of control1:15:34 – More unforeseen challenges, and annoying questions from people who assume your work is easy1:20:22 – Email1:25:26 – Portaling1:26:55 – The discomfort of feeling flaky, and practicing radical honesty1:30:23 – Wanting the invite, keeping our options open, and how texting has made us flaky1:32:08 – What Lily wishes she had known about marketing, and why construction is always behind schedule1:35:56 – Undervaluing design and aesthetics1:38:13 – Tying her identity to how hard she’s climbing1:41:32 – Being a work in progress with disordered eating, and obsessive and compulsive behaviors in climbers1:50:47 – Unpacking why we want to climb 5.141:56:12 – My thoughts on trying Badman again at Smith Rock, and climbing hard and being happy at the same time1:59:40 – Lily’s thoughts on board training for Smith Rock2:01:53 – Doing weighted pullups on a hangboard, and training endurance for To Bolt or Not To Be (first 5.14a in America)2:06:26 – Working on getting validation from herself, and bringing more energy to other parts of her life2:08:46 – Being in the present moment2:10:34 – Having more grace for others and for ourselves2:12:31 – Follow @boardworks_climbing on Instagram

9 Okt 20232h 16min

Joey Jannsen and Rich Breuner are the founders of Ocelot Grips. We talked about their “why” for starting a climbing hold company, why the small details matter, how to make dual tex, why you can’t buy their holds online, building relationships with your customers, being fans of sports, the future of indoor climbing, the entrepreneurial spirit, producing underground hip-hop concerts, cage fighting, and much more!Check out Ocelot Grips! ocelotgrips.com*Not a paid endorsement, I just think they're cool!Check out AG1!drinkAG1.com/NUGGETUse this link to get a free year's supply of vitamin D + 5 travel packs!Check out Rocky Talkie!RockyTalkie.com/NuggetUse this link to get 10% off your first order of backcountry radios!Check out Wonderful Pistachios!WonderfulPistachios.com to learn more!Check out Crimpd!crimpd.comOr download the Crimpd app!Check out Rumpl!rumpl.com/nuggetUse code "NUGGET" at checkout for 10% off your first order!We are supported by these amazing BIG GIVERS:Leo Franchi, Michael Roy, David Lahaie, Robert Freehill, Jeremiah Johnson, Scott Donahue, Eli Conlee, Skyler Maxwell, Craig Lee, Mark and Julie Calhoun, Yinan Liu, Renzollama, Zach Emery, and Brandt MickolasBecome a Patron:patreon.com/thenuggetclimbingShow Notes:  thenuggetclimbing.com/episodes/joey-and-richNuggets:0:04:20 – Soundcheck and bevies0:05:30 – Rich talks about producing underground hip-hop shows during the summers in college0:09:08 – Joey talks about cage fighting0:11:53 – My background in manufacturing climbing holds, and our conversation six years ago about their idea for Ocelot0:14:05 – Why they decided to outsource their production0:15:37 – Joey’s background in route setting and shaping0:18:52 – Joey’s “why” for starting Ocelot Grips0:22:06 – Rich’s “why” for starting Ocelot Grips, and his background in business operations and management0:24:53 – Expressing your identity through business0:26:15 – The Hedgehog concept0:28:12 – Why they chose the name Ocelot0:29:09 – How The Nugget got its name0:33:08 – What sets Ocelot apart from other brands, and the Shade Theory series0:38:56 – Having a flavor0:40:55 – Wanting to be involved in the setting community0:44:47 – Why you can’t buy Ocelot holds online0:48:50 – Getting feedback0:51:53 – Attention to detail0:56:26 – How you do something is how you do everything0:56:58 – Ocelot’s manufacturing partner Peak Performance Polymers1:00:23 – Joey’s dual tex process, and how climbing holds are made1:05:29 – The logo1:07:05 – The business planning phase, processing orders, and learning as you go1:09:33 – Biggest challenges, and building Ocelot as a side hustle1:11:46 – Bluey1:12:40 – How far they’ve come, and what it will take for Ocelot to be their full-time jobs1:15:48 – Making career choices to maximize time1:18:40 – Where to climb on Ocelot holds, and gratitude1:21:38 – Joey describes the four current families of Ocelot holds1:25:38 – Wanting to see their holds in competitions1:29:54 – Being sports fans, and being excited about where climbing is heading1:38:45 – Novel moves in competitions1:41:15 – Putting on more than 50 competitions1:44:11 – Joey shares a few nuggets for route setters (relevant for creative people)1:54:01 – Rich shares a few nuggets about business2:01:48 – Where to find Ocelot, and wrap up

2 Okt 20232h 3min