Breaking Out Of Walled Gardens and France's Podcasting Culture with Sarah Toporoff

Is the secret to podcasting success hidden in the French market?

In this episode of PodBiz, Norma Jean Belenky speaks with Sarah Toporoff, Head of Growth for Disco by Headliner, about the evolving landscape of audience growth and monetization. Sarah discusses how her team is helping publishers break podcasting out of "walled garden" platforms and into the wider web, transforming organic traffic into loyal listeners.

As she puts it:

"Your audio engineer can't be your audience developer. Like, it just doesn't work that way."

Here are some insightful moments within the episode:

• Where the money is in podcasting: Why Sarah argues the true money is in the audience and why

• France is a uniquely booming market for branded content.

• Breaking the walled gardens: How to reach the billions of people online who aren't currently using dedicated podcast apps.

• The "Owned, Earned, and Paid" framework: Why creators need to look beyond organic growth to reach new heights.

• The "Death of the Download": Navigating the controversy of auto-play audio and why "guaranteed listens" are a better metric.

• Professionalizing audience strategy: Moving past the "if we build it, they will come" naivete to implement real media strategy.

• Awareness vs. Performance: Understanding the spectrum between generating impressions and building a loyal following.

About Sarah Toporoff

Sarah Toporoff is the Head of Growth for Disco by Headliner. Based in Paris, she has over a decade of experience in media innovation, having worked in journalism innovation, radio product development, and publisher partnerships. She is a self-described "audio girly" who specializes in helping publishers and brands maximize their reach through contextual content recommendation.

Episode Chapters

(00:00) Intro

(01:04) Where is the money in podcasting?

(01:29) What is Disco by Headliner?

(03:27) Breaking podcasts out of "walled gardens"

(04:49) Why audio was left behind by the web

(06:33) Case Study: Doubling Al Jazeera’s audience overnight

(10:52) The importance of paid media in a launch strategy

(11:55) The controversy of auto-play and inflated downloads

(13:34) The "booming" branded podcast culture in France

(16:52) Sarah’s journey from English teacher to legacy media

(23:32) Debunking the "If we build it, they will come" myth

(26:34) The shift toward dedicated audience growth teams

(30:06) Awareness vs. Performance: What are you actually buying?

(33:15) Why you can’t buy loyalty

(38:30) Real-world budget benchmarks for podcast growth

(41:25) Riding the video wave without losing audio's soul

Some Additional PodBiz Buzz: "The money is an audience."•"Real media has strategy and budget."•"A solid media plan is not going to fix a bad show." "My job is everything that happens after you hit publish."

PodBiz is the podcast about the business of podcasting. Hosted by industry veterans Norma Jean Belenky and John Kiernan, the show features conversations with creators, executives, and platform leaders to answer one question: Where’s the money in podcasting?

Each episode dives into monetization strategy, adtech, branded content, IP development, and audience growth. Guests include leaders from Acast, Captivate, Crooked Media, Buzzsprout, True Native Media, Podfest, and more.

Learn more: njbmedia.co | thepodhouseproductions.com

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